Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Boris Zubov]

Watching Guentzel all this years he never struck me as a guy be carried by Crosby. At a certain point the Rangers need to shit or get off the pot and make a difference making move. How many has-beens or never-was do we need to try in the top 6? We have a core of stars in their 30s. As much as I'd love to live in the fantasyland that all our prospects are going to work out, now is the time to make a move. Why is it that Vegas, Edmonton, Vancouver, etc are all in on Guentzel and we arent? We should be. Fortune favors the bold.

My opinion has nothing to do with pearl clutching our prospects...we already have way too many guys with retirement contracts & NMC clauses to go along with them. Regardless, Jake is not putting us over the top unless he brings Cindy with him & we can send Mika the other way.

 

[LOFIN]

Lmao if you’re gonna ask about Guentzel you might as well ask about Crosby.

One of these players is available, and it's not Crosby

 

[McRanger92]

I think you're misconstruing what I am saying. I agree adding Guentzel now would be helpful. What I disagree with is that when you sign a player like Guentzel, who is likely to get 6-7 years, you have to look down the road. Guentzel isn't Panarin. Panarin was 27 when he became a UFA and you even said you're concerned as Panarin and Kreider age. What do you think will happen with Guentzel in year 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7? You have to look at what is coming and the cost/benefit of the acquisition and the long term benefit/hindrance of their cap hit.

The Rangers aren't in dire need of another wing. They just aren't.

Im not one of these people who thinks Guentzel is going to fall off a cliff in his 30s. He grew up in the league with Crosby, he knows how to take care of himself. If the contract looks bad in years 4-7 such is life. You think Vegas is regretting that they have to pay Mark Stone 9.5 mil with an 80 year olds back for 3 more years?

 

[howztheglass]

Pittsburg is dying--finally coming to the end of their run. Sid the kid (no more) is even getting up there in age. Malkin the same, Karlsson not the answer they hoped for.

Guentzel is everything we need as a first line RW--we're all hoping Kakko turns into a Guentzel type of player--offensively. I agree with most as the cap hit is going to cost but the cap is increasing, we would finally fill the 1RW spot. Turning 30 still give him 4-5 years of hopefully strong play.

Kakko and our (low round) 1st would be something tolerable, I'm not willing to deal Othmann or Perrault as we need to build around these 2 kids. Pittsburg would most likely still say No to Kakko and a 1st. But Pittsburg needs to start re-building somewhere.

Kreider-Mika-Guentzel vs Kreider-Mika-Kakko
Breadman-Tro-Laffy
Cuylle-Chytil (I hope)-Othmann
Bangers with Vesey

Jesus were almost paying Goodrow half of what Guentzel might cost (7-8M), In the offseason maybe buyout Goodrow and with Kakko salary going to Pittsburg were 2/3 of the way there.

Buch, Guentzel and Tuch are the only game changers, everyone else is just filling holes for this year. Frankie coming back is fine but not if we're trading Kakko.

 

[McRanger92]

My opinion has nothing to do with pearl clutching our prospects...we already have way too many guys with retirement contracts & NMC clauses to go along with them. Regardless, Jake is not putting us over the top unless he brings Cindy with him & we can send Mika the other way.

Trouba and Panarin will be under new contracts or gone by year 2 of whatever contract we give Guentzel. And maybe if you sign Guentzel it makes it easier to stomach a move of Kreider.

And Im not married to Guentzel, the ideal guy is Tuch or even Buchnevich. Get a guy who makes a difference, not Vatrano or some washed up rental. If you have to "overpay" to get your guy, do it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Trouba and Panarin will be under new contracts or gone by year 2 of whatever contract we give Guentzel. And maybe if you sign Guentzel it makes it easier to stomach a move of Kreider.

And Im not married to Guentzel, the ideal guy is Tuch or even Buchnevich. Get a guy who makes a difference, not Vatrano or some washed up rental. If you have to "overpay" to get your guy, do it.

I'm fairly certain Buffalo's GM said Tuch isn't available.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm fairly certain Buffalo's GM said Tuch isn't available.

Sad franchise. Drury should still make them an offer they cant refuse.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Pittsburg is dying--finally coming to the end of their run. Sid the kid (no more) is even getting up there in age. Malkin the same, Karlsson not the answer they hoped for.

Guentzel is everything we need as a first line RW--we're all hoping Kakko turns into a Guentzel type of player--offensively. I agree with most as the cap hit is going to cost but the cap is increasing, we would finally fill the 1RW spot. Turning 30 still give him 4-5 years of hopefully strong play.

Kakko and our (low round) 1st would be something tolerable, I'm not willing to deal Othmann or Perrault as we need to build around these 2 kids. Pittsburg would most likely still say No to Kakko and a 1st. But Pittsburg needs to start re-building somewhere.

Kreider-Mika-Guentzel vs Kreider-Mika-Kakko
Breadman-Tro-Laffy
Cuylle-Chytil (I hope)-Othmann
Bangers with Vesey

Jesus were almost paying Goodrow half of what Guentzel might cost (7-8M), In the offseason maybe buyout Goodrow and with Kakko salary going to Pittsburg were 2/3 of the way there.

Buch, Guentzel and Tuch are the only game changers, everyone else is just filling holes for this year. Frankie coming back is fine but not if we're trading Kakko.

Friedman reported Buffalo isn't trading Tuch. This board likes to ignore facts & believes what it wants to, but Tuch isn't being dealt.

 

[JimmyG89]

Dominos

 

[Boris Zubov]

Trouba and Panarin will be under new contracts or gone by year 2 of whatever contract we give Guentzel. And maybe if you sign Guentzel it makes it easier to stomach a move of Kreider.

And Im not married to Guentzel, the ideal guy is Tuch or even Buchnevich. Get a guy who makes a difference, not Vatrano or some washed up rental. If you have to "overpay" to get your guy, do it.

Not sure what makes me want to puke more, the idea of trading a boatload of assets & then signing a RW who's on the wrong side of 30 to a 7 year deal or the fact that our "rebuild" produced literally 1 top 6 player.

 

[NYR Viper]

I am a bit surprised that the team didn't recall Scanlin during the time when it didn't matter in terms of cap dollars. They could have recalled him for the last ~10-15 days, up and down throughout that time, to allow the coaches to see him play with NHL players. That surprises me a bit. It would have also given them 8D for practices which is sometimes nice.

 

[JimmyG89]

To think where we’d be if this soy bean latte decided to play like his old self again.

4 years ago to the day, Mika Zibanejad scored as many goals in one game as he has scored 5v5 this season. It was a magical night.

 

[NYR Viper]

Im not one of these people who thinks Guentzel is going to fall off a cliff in his 30s. He grew up in the league with Crosby, he knows how to take care of himself. If the contract looks bad in years 4-7 such is life. You think Vegas is regretting that they have to pay Mark Stone 9.5 mil with an 80 year olds back for 3 more years?

If you gave me $8m to sign players this off-season, Guentzel wouldn't be at the top of my list. It's Hanifin or Forsling as #1a/1b and then go from there.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Sad franchise. Drury should still make them an offer they cant refuse.

There is a reason they toil in mediocrity! Additionally, I'm not sold on Tuch being worth what he will cost. He had one big year, last year. He and Thompson have both regressed. I don't think that is a coincidence. Remove his one outlier year last year and his career average is 49 points a year.

That isn't the kind of guy you make an offer that can't be refused, at least IMO.

 

[Boris Zubov]

4 years ago to the day, Mika Zibanejad scored as many goals in one game as he has scored 5v5 this season. It was a magical night.

And then the world fell off a cliff.

 

[McRanger92]

Not sure what makes me want to puke more, the idea of trading a boatload of assets & then signing a RW who's on the wrong side of 30 to a 7 year deal or the fact that our "rebuild" produced literally 1 top 6 player.

2 if you count Chytil (which I do). I know people have made it their fulltime job to defend Kakko but him only becoming Jesper Fast lite was crippling. If Drury knew him and Jovo's boy would amount to nothing I highly doubt he ever wouldve dealt Buchnevich. We've been trying to plug that hole since.

If you gave me $8m to sign players this off-season, Guentzel wouldn't be at the top of my list. It's Hanifin or Forsling as #1a/1b and then go from there.

I like both of those guys but give either a contract in the 8s and there are getting the Trouba treatment here for the next half decade.

 

[NYR Viper]

2 if you count Chytil (which I do). I know people have made it their fulltime job to defend Kakko but him only becoming Jesper Fast lite was crippling. If Drury knew him and Jovo's boy would amount to nothing I highly doubt he ever wouldve dealt Buchnevich. We've been trying to plug that hole since.



I like both of those guys but give either a contract in the 8s and there are getting the Trouba treatment here for the next half decade.

They won't get $8 though. Likely, they will be getting ~$6-7m. And that's kind of my point. Those guys would fill a HUGE hole on this team now and moving forward as the organizational depth at defense is bad. Allocate that cap space there.




If this is true, then they can't use LTIR

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Again, there is a clear long-term need for a top 6 winger and we are in our championship window. The Rangers are going to have an entire bottom 6 of guys ELC and sub 1mil cap hits. The only guy who has top 6 upside who is close is Othmann, and teams will championship hopes arent relying on rookies to fill their biggest needs. Go get Guentzel, Buchnevich, Tuch. Someone like that. Especially if Verbeek is going to make them pay through the nostrils for Frankie effing Vatrano.

One player (no matter how much of a game changer he is) is not going to suddenly make us Cup winners. There are too many areas to address before that happens.

 

[McRanger92]

They won't get $8 though. Likely, they will be getting ~$6-7m. And that's kind of my point. Those guys would fill a HUGE hole on this team now and moving forward as the organizational depth at defense is bad. Allocate that cap space there.




If this is true, then they can't use LTIR

Its a strong free agent class this summer. If the playoffs dont go well, I think Drury is going to look for upgrades on Goodrow, Kakko and Lindgren's roster spots. Kakko can be replaced in house by Berard or Othmann, but thats 8.7 in unaccounted for cap space to play with. I anticipate theyll make a substantial signing at wing and on D. Buying players for only money is what you do when you have a bunch of NHL ready prospects for the bottom 6 and not a lot of draft picks.

One player (no matter how much of a game changer he is) is not going to suddenly make us Cup winners. There are too many areas to address before that happens.

Well thats good because Drury is probably adding 3 or 4 players before Friday passes. And im not saying Guentzel alone is the "final Piece" but if they want to win a Cup they do actually need a top 6 wing who does more than achieve moral victories there like Kakko.

 

[surlysailor]

Kakko is very clearly not a good top 6 option. Cuylle is a 3rd line player at this stage. Berard has never played an NHL game and Othmann is still a year away by all accounts. Perrault most likely 2 or 3 years out. Odds are most of those guys are going to top out as middle 6 players, with Perrault being the guy with the most upside.

I know people dont want to hear this but waiting for prospects to develop has held this team back over the last couple years. We traded Buch so Kakko and Kravtsov could whine about ice time and produce nothing. And to say we dont have a need on the wing is wild. This is our 3rd straight season scouring the deadline market for a right wing lol.

No one is a top 6 rw playing with ck-z. It hasn’t worked since Buch(maybe vat in the reg season) but let’s keep harping on kk, who made the 3rd line better than the ck-z line. The issues isn’t kk it’s continuing trotting out the same top pair. No magical rw is going to unlock z, z has to. He can’t be a 1c if he doesn’t get a shot on net until the 3rd period. Is kk what I hoped he be? No, but he’s not a throw away. I think wennberg will be fine between cuylle & kk and then go mid for a rw like a 4th or 5th for Duclair, babanov, roslovic(who I prefer since he & wennberg can switch play c & w and give pl more options). Nyr dont have the assets to compete for guentz esp if Carolina is in on it,and the price for vat is ludicrous. Also move a late pick/mid prospect go for duhaime. The east is fairly open and I don’t think the big moves will be worth it unless there is a suprise move.

ck-z-ros/duclair/etc…
Bread-troch-laf
Cuylle-wenn-kk
Vesey-good/brodz-duhaime
Brodz/good.

Eds and rempe keep getting more ice time in the an and then get the recall in the playoffs when nyr end up playing like they did last year to provide energy.

 

[LORDE]

2 if you count Chytil (which I do). I know people have made it their fulltime job to defend Kakko but him only becoming Jesper Fast lite was crippling. If Drury knew him and Jovo's boy would amount to nothing I highly doubt he ever wouldve dealt Buchnevich. We've been trying to plug that hole since.

This is EXTREMELY true

I'm going on record as saying Chytil is done tho. The org should operate under that assumption (in my opinion anyway)

Due to these reasons we have massive holes at RW (currently) & center not only in the current lineup but also in the system. Many here have been harping on this, even before KK & Laf were drafted (not saying we should've pick others at the time)

I don't see this roster being a true contender now or in the next couple of years unless the center spot(s) are dealt with & I didn't even mention the D (we have young wing options obv)

 

[McRanger92]

No one is a top 6 rw playing with ck-z. It hasn’t worked since Buch(maybe vat in the reg season) but let’s keep harping on kk, who made the 3rd line better than the ck-z line. The issues isn’t kk it’s continuing trotting out the same top pair. No magical rw is going to unlock z, z has to. He can’t be a 1c if he doesn’t get a shot on net until the 3rd period. Is kk what I hoped he be? No, but he’s not a throw away. I think wennberg will be fine between cuylle & kk and then go mid for a rw like a 4th or 5th Duclair, babanov, roslovic(who I prefer since he & wennberg can switch play c & w and give pl more options). Nyr dont have the assets to compete for guentz and the price for vat is ludicrous. Also move a late pick/mid prospect go for duhaime. The east is fairly open and I don’t think the big moves will be worth it unless there is a suprise move.

ck-z-ros/duclair/etc…
Bread-troch-laf
Cuylle-wenn-kk
Vesey-good/brodz-duhaime
Brodz/good.

Eds and rempe keep getting more ice time in the an and then get the recall in the playoffs when nyr end up playing like they did last year to provide energy.

You either need to split Kreider and Mika or add a legit top 6 player. Adding trash like Duclair and Roslovic for that spot would legitimately be an insult to the fanbase. Thats Carolina Hurricanes behavior.

 

[McRanger92]

This is EXTREMELY true

I'm going on record as saying Chytil is done tho. The org should operate under that assumption (in my opinion anyway)

Due to these reasons we have massive holes at RW (currently) & center not only in the current lineup but also in the system. Many here have been harping on this, even before KK & Laf were drafted (not saying we should've pick others at the time)

I don't see this roster being a true contender now or in the next couple of years unless the center spot(s) are dealt with & I didn't even mention the D (we have young wing options obv)

The facts say they are a true contender currently. Why are they waiting "a couple years" to deal with spots in the lineup that are issues now? Is Drury going to fire himself in the meantime because thats whats going to happen if they arent addressed promptly.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

NO
outrageous win now overpay/too risky and ultimately = epic fail
glad someone else crazy overpaid



NO on trading KK
give him actual opportunity to succeed w/complementary linemates = chemistry
Him + Cuyl look fine, then they gotta waste time w/desperation moves on 1RW b'c Zib has forgotten how to work w/Kreider
Stop
make due w/Brodz as makeshift stopgap now and eventually get a REAL pivot who is a fit long term [like Zegras, e.g.,]



See above
You can't expect players to mesh and develop chemistry if you keep uprooting the line


1. Drury is not deranged enuf to think Jones alone gets a 2nd
Jones + 3rd to ugrade to a 2nd, reasonably possible, but not a 2nd outright

2. NO
we do not have to be in on super expensive pieces that fuel win now addiction and do not work in the long run

first try Oth/Ber at RW on zib line
then try Eds at pivot, slide Zib to RW
if both those are not sufficient, post season we can see what options there are

while we could USE mo better F help, we do not need same

D, esp RD is our thinnest = therefore weakest spot

Monahan has 8 goals, 9 points in the last 8 games played.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Watching Guentzel all this years he never struck me as a guy be carried by Crosby. At a certain point the Rangers need to shit or get off the pot and make a difference making move. How many has-beens or never-was do we need to try in the top 6? We have a core of stars in their 30s. As much as I'd love to live in the fantasyland that all our prospects are going to work out, now is the time to make a move. Why is it that Vegas, Edmonton, Vancouver, etc are all in on Guentzel and we arent? We should be. Fortune favors the bold.

They’re in on guentzel because they’re not in his division, won’t need to overpay and are further into their windows.