Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Guyute]

Goodrow-Rooney-Blackwell

Elliotte said the Ducks wants more vets to help bring along their kids. Give them Goodrow and a 2nd for Henrique without retention.

 

[JimmyG89]

I would love to add Tuch to this team. That kind of player and contract is worth moving Othmann. It would take a ton for me to want to move Gabe, but Tuch is what we'd hope Othmann could become. You'd be getting him for 2.5 years too. I'd put Kakko on the table for him too.

 

[Machinehead]

Taking Kakko out of the argument for now, the issue with Kreider and Zibanejad right now is that regardless of their analytics they're just not doing enough 5v5 for a "top line" any longer. Third line? Sure. But we're hinging a lot of hopes on these guys actually producing some results at some point to get this team somewhere and they're just...not doing so at the level they need to be regardless of who their linemate is.

I don't think there's a magic bullet "put this guy with them and they'll take off" solution either. Great that they're not a liability overall but they're not doing enough to make their cap hit and usage line up with what the team needs them to be doing.

I don't disagree with that. They're definitely a top six line but they're not a legit top line together anymore.

I do think the defense corps is an exponentially bigger program.

 

[duhmetreE]

Here’s the thing Ryan Lindgren has stopped being physical. He’s taking way more of a beating than he is dishing it out. He’s easy to play against now. He used to be a pain in the ass. He’s small and he’s a punching bag. There is nothing nothing good about this player at this point. He’s a shell of who he was.

Mika and Kreider certainly need a guy that can skate.

If this gets crazy and Vatrano can’t happen I’d seriously consider duclair.

Mika needs a guy that can carry the puck up ice and create. Problem is his O-Zone game has been terrible... He's not attacking the middle of the ice or ever making himself a threat.. he also struggles with proper puck support.. It seems like he's more worried about getting back/playing defense

 

[WhatTheDuck]

you can also easily point to the fact that for those points zegras was playing 1st line minutes 5v5 (yes 1st line d matchups too but playing with offensive talent) and kakko has been buried mostly on the 3rd line for his post draft career.

zegras has so much potential but he really doesn't have a complete game right now, and trocheck has absolutely earned the 2c role (proven me wrong!), so is zegras a 3c here long term without pp1 time? just seems like square peg for round hole.

if he wasn't an nyr fan growing up would people here care as much about him?

Playing with what offensive talent? He was the offensive talent. Him and Terry were by far the biggest focal points for opposing D the last couple years, and have no elite talent to prop them up.

Kakko has been in more favorable conditions to produce at 5on5. Way more talented team, who actually have play drivers and aren't buried in their own end all game. Gets way more favorable matchups not being the top focal point of the opposing D. Zegras has never played a single shift with a true #1 D let alone someone as elite as Fox. He's done pretty well to put up a couple 60+ point years as a twerpy 20/21 year old. Completely futile surroundings, last year we are literally talking about one of the very worst defensive teams in NHL history, they were in their own end all game.

 

[LionsHeart]

Okay, I’d trade Kakko for Tuch lol.

 

[Circus86]

Tuch for Kakko would be a steal for us

Yeah would be great but obviously Buffalo isn't doing that. I could see them asking for Kakko + Othman in return.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Friedman threw a lot of names out there but no substance so he has no idea. Blackwell? Rooney? Yea ok.

I wait the whole pod for him to get to the Rangers and within 10 seconds it's abundantly clear he has ZERO intel on the Rangers outside of the obvious stuff everyone knows.

He literally just started listing players who were on the Rangers from 2020-22 lol that's how you know he has nothing.

 

[Levitate]

I don't disagree with that. They're definitely a top six line but they're not a legit top line together anymore.

I do think the defense corps is an exponentially bigger program.

Probably true. I think if that "top" line was going it'd cover up a lot of defensive issues though.

Defense is scary because I can see them doubling down on Lindgren but I also don't think Drury is completely oblivious and I don't think he's scared to shake up the locker room if he feels they're not getting it done

but none of that can really happen until the off season. In the meantime we'll worry about getting some "big" 7th D who can't play

I wait the whole pod for him to get to the Rangers and within 10 seconds it's abundantly clear he has ZERO intel on the Rangers outside of the obvious stuff everyone knows.

He literally just started listing players who were on the Rangers from 2020-22 lol that's how you know he has nothing.

I don't think anyone has an inside line on what Drury wants to do. The best you get is hearing leaks from the other end about who Drury is asking around about but that doesn't mean he's targeting something in particular versus doing due dillegence and checking into things
Like Vince saying "oh league sources reached out to me to say they wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers go after a big 6/7th D" and it's like...that's not actually inside info, it sounds like people speculating

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Once we are in a guaranteed, playoff spot we should sit Lindgren and let him heal. Let Jones take 3rd pairing minutes. Worst case, we finish 2nd or 3rd in the Metro and face one of PHI, NYI or WSH in the first round. Better than being first in the Metro and have an injured Lindgren for the playoffs.

 

[Mandar]

Yeah would be great but obviously Buffalo isn't doing that. I could see them asking for Kakko + Othman in return.

and it still would be worth it

 

[Circus86]

and it still would be worth it

Yeah i might actually be on board for that.

 

[RGY]

 

[17futurecap]

Tax free state

 

[bleedblue94]

Playing with what offensive talent? He was the offensive talent. Him and Terry were by far the biggest focal points for opposing D the last couple years, and have no elite talent to prop them up.

Kakko has been in more favorable conditions to produce at 5on5. Way more talented team, who actually have play drivers and aren't buried in their own end all game. Gets way more favorable matchups not being the top focal point of the opposing D. Zegras has never played a single shift with a true #1 D let alone someone as elite as Fox. He's done pretty well to put up a couple 60+ point years as a twerpy 20/21 year old. Completely futile surroundings, last year we are literally talking about one of the very worst defensive teams in NHL history, they were in their own end all game.

Kakko has played mostly w 3rd liners and not with the top heavy stars on the to top 2 lines.

Terry is just a much better offensive player than anyone that kakko has played with consistently.

I think you need to reread my post without assuming negativity. My main issues w zegras are lack of speed and what's his role here. We have our top 2 c, he's not really a 3c. He won't get pp time here, and he's not a fast player or a faceoff guy. Those are things nyr needs. Zegras doesn't really address those things. Now if nyr is trading for him to turn him into the top line rw with kreider and zib that is different, but at that point you are trading for a winger and not a center for this team.

If there is a trade there and it is zegras for kakko then nyr is obviously adding, but I just don't think zegras is what nyr needs

 

[duhmetreE]

I thought he would have had a great year under Brunette. Injuries always an issue

 

[bleedblue94]

He’s always hurt. Always. It’s not going to get better. He is the league punching bag.

Meanwhile other people want to trade for guys that won't play if they have a hangnail.

If given the choice I'll take the heart and soul player for an org that has had too many soulless players over the years.

Also, I am someone that is a proponent of making a move for hanafin long term in that spot.

 

[NYR Viper]

I love the Kakko is Fast argument. Let's look at facts:

Jesper Fast's BEST season to date, has him scoring @ 1.8p/60 @ 5v5, when he was 26. Since then his numbers look like this @ 5v5:

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All
Even Strength
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Short-Handed
5-on-5
5-on-5 Close
5-on-5 Tied

			Corsi (5v5)	Fenwick (5v5)
Season	Age	Team	Lg	GP	G/60	A/60	A1/60	A2/60	PTS/60	S/60	oiGF/60	oiGA/60	CF/60	CA/60	C/60	FF/60	FA/60	F/60
2013-14	22	NYR	NHL	11											0.0			0.0
2014-15	23	NYR	NHL	58	0.5	0.7	0.3	0.4	1.2	4.9	2.0	2.2	52.3	52.5	-0.2	40.2	39.4	0.8
2015-16	24	NYR	NHL	79	0.4	1.1	0.4	0.6	1.5	4.2	2.3	2.1	52.2	55.3	-3.1	38.5	40.0	-1.4
2016-17	25	NYR	NHL	68	0.4	1.1	0.7	0.4	1.6	4.0	2.4	2.2	50.6	54.4	-3.8	37.2	39.6	-2.3
2017-18	26	NYR	NHL	71	0.9	0.9	0.5	0.4	1.8	5.0	2.6	3.4	50.8	60.8	-10.0	39.0	46.3	-7.3
2018-19	27	NYR	NHL	66	0.5	0.7	0.2	0.5	1.2	5.1	2.0	2.3	51.9	56.7	-4.8	39.1	41.0	-1.9
2019-20	28	NYR	NHL	69	0.6	1.0	0.5	0.5	1.6	4.7	2.9	2.1	54.2	57.9	-3.7	43.6	43.7	-0.2
2020-21	29	CAR	NHL	46	0.4	0.8	0.2	0.6	1.2	3.2	1.4	2.3	50.7	46.1	4.7	37.4	35.4	2.0
2021-22	30	CAR	NHL	82											0.0			0.0
2022-23	31	CAR	NHL	80	0.6	0.9	0.3	0.6	1.5	4.0	2.5	2.2	62.4	41.4	21.0	46.8	31.5	15.3
2023-24	32	CAR	NHL	58	0.5	0.8	0.6	0.2	1.3	5.3	1.8	1.8	73.7	42.3	31.4	49.4	31.4	1

Kakko, at the ripe old age of 21, had 1.7 p/60 @ 5v5.

Are we saying Kakko has reached is ceiling and is done progressing?

 

[effen]

Oh man I was hoping the Rangers could get him for a 4th.

 

[CLW]

Taking Kakko out of the argument for now, the issue with Kreider and Zibanejad right now is that regardless of their analytics they're just not doing enough 5v5 for a "top line" any longer. Third line? Sure. But we're hinging a lot of hopes on these guys actually producing some results at some point to get this team somewhere and they're just...not doing so at the level they need to be regardless of who their linemate is.

I don't think there's a magic bullet "put this guy with them and they'll take off" solution either. Great that they're not a liability overall but they're not doing enough to make their cap hit and usage line up with what the team needs them to be doing.

Kreider and Zibs are not 25 anymore. They are used heavily in all situations yet they know their best work is in special situations. Naturally they save themselves for those situations. A new RW that fits their game may help but it will not fix the underlying situation with them doing flybys and avoiding heavy board play etc. If the coach wants them to have more oomph 5v5 he should use them less elsewhere, but he won't.

 

[kovazub94]

...People want an upgrade at 3C, which I get somewhat but if that happens do you take Brodzinski out of the lineup? Do you push him down and play him with Goodrow and Vesey as his wingers?

Yes, I'd prefer Goodrow on a wing with Brodzinski centering 4th line.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Kakko has zero aggression in his game, and it's a huge problem. He'd rather stickhandle back and forth along the boards, never pressing to the center of the ice. Kid should be a bull in a china shop. Instead we get this incarnation who seems allergic to forcing the puck netward.

 

[effen]

The Sabres don't remotely need prospects. Hilariously, the Sabres need veteran LWs and a top 6 vet C.

In a world with no NTCs, they'd probably trade Tuch for Kreider. I don't think the Rangers have anything else they'd want.

 

[bobbop]

Friedman's latest 32 thoughts column;



I would move Othmann in a Tuch deal

I would drive Othmann to Buffalo for an Alex Tuch deal.

 

[duhmetreE]

I would drive Othmann to Buffalo for an Alex Tuch deal.

I'd come along to keep you company

Adding Tuch and keeping Kakko fills out our top9 RW. Then you have Gabe in a couple years