Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider and Mika led the team in goals. Mika led the team in points. Kreider had 10-6-16 and Vatrano had 5-8-13. No other line came close to that production. “Worst line” give me a break.

But the charts!!!

 

[Mandar]

I like arguing

And losing….

 

[WhatTheDuck]

sounds good but with that cap hit the Ducks would have to retain half and I am not paying big assets for him even with 50 percent retention.

I wouldn't expect it to look too different than the recent Lybushkin trade. 3rd rounder or so to the Ducks and maybe a late rounder to a third party for some extra retention. He wouldn't have as much trade value as Henrique, year to year production hasn't been on the same level due to injuries.

Double max retention gets Silf down below 1.5M cap hit

 

[Daves a mess]

I like arguing

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Guyute]

Any solid leads?

 

[Alluckks]

Zegres + Vatrano at 75%

2024 1st, Othmann, Kakko, Goodrow

Panarin Trocheck Laf
Kreider Zib Vesey
Cuylle Zegres Vatrano
Edstrom Brodz Rempe

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

What I don’t get is if you are trying to improve the depth of the club to win a Cup, why trade a significant roster player and take one step back to take two forward?

Let’s say Kakko is in the deal to bring in a top line RW and a C. Let’s use the Henrique/Vatrano scenario.

Kreider Mika Vatrano
Panarin Trocheck Lafreniere
Cuylle Henrique Vesey
Edstrom Brodzinski Goodrow

You are deepening the team in two spots but also removing a key winger

I don’t see how moving Kakko makes sense because if there’s a way to make a deal or deals for these two types of players or similar without removing a roster player there’s a significant difference. That’s the whole idea when you are going for it

Kreider Mika Vatrano
Panarin Trocheck Lafreniere
Cuylle Henrique Kakko
Goodrow Brodzinski Vesey

I’d go to war with that or something similar. The bottom six is much stronger and it’s a lot easier to overcome an injury or two. Thats what you are preparing for.

The Duck duo will cost too much in my opinion (you gotta give to get, i understand that) but I’m just using them as an example

 

[Peltz]

Mika and Kreider were dominant against PIT and Carolina playing with Vatrano in the playoffs

That was a different Mika Zibanejad. He’s not the elite player he was 2 years ago. He doesn’t have the same motor.

Those two (Mika and Kreider) just don’t have the puck enough 5v5. Vatrano ain’t helping with that.

You’re going to add a shooter to a line that will be penned in their own zone all night besides the occasional one and done rush opportunity.

 

[Vitto79]

Zucker , Bjugstad, Dermott for
Jones , 2nd , 5th

AZ would have NYR 2 nds over the next 3 yrs lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

But the charts!!!

How about raw stats?

That line, when together, scored 10 and gave up 9 5v5.

Panarin's line? Scored 11, gave up 7

Kid line? scored 10, gave up 5 (in 50 fewer minutes than the Zib line.)

Lowest rate of goals for and highest rate of goals against even just using the most basics of basics. I know going under the hood scares you so I'll spare you that.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I wouldn't expect it to look too different than the recent Lybushkin trade. 3rd rounder or so to the Ducks and maybe a late rounder to a third party for some extra retention. He wouldn't have as much trade value as Henrique, year to year production hasn't been on the same level due to injuries.

Double max retention gets Silf down below 1.5M cap hit

Yeah hard pass, hard pass, crooked rain, crooked rain

 

[McRanger92]

The PP is a thing. They did most of their scoring there. 5v5 they got killed

Vatrano didn’t play with them on the PP and he put up more points than any forward not named Kreider Mika or Panarin. I’m just saying the guy would help the team. I don’t want to overpay and prefer other options but it makes sense that they are interested

 

[NYR Viper]

I’d rather trade a 3rd for Zucker than a 1st for Zucker

 

[bobbop]

Maybe. But look at the hill they had to climb. They steam rolled the first 2 rounds. Not sure they get past the Debbies without that grit. After rolling the first 4 games, they gutted out a 7th. All of that experience and grit got that cup. IMO - the big issues with asset mgt were AFTER 94. Smith got his cup, he had enough juice to make sure we weren’t a joke for the next 20 years. He did the opposite.

I think the big difference now is that, while we have a great team this year, it does not have same feel as 94. In 94 there was much more belief in the core. Here? The core is pretty good and they obviously COULD win a cup. Then, you felt they WOULD win a cup. Much easier to go all in with a better hand.

The doubt comes from these guys never having won a Cup. Messier, Lowe, Tikkanen etc. were winners. They had been there, just not as Rangers.

The current core needs to put on their big boy skates and show they can be winners.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Kid line? scored 10, gave up 5 (in 50 fewer minutes than the Zib line.)

Lowest rate of goals for and highest rate of goals against even just using the most basics of basics. I know going under the hood scares you so I'll spare you that.

PTSD is now flaring up. Still can’t believe how shit Gallant was for continuing to barely play the kid line

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I know the Rangers have been heavily scouting the Yotes, but is it really Zucker? He’s a LW no? Can he play right?

He’s a talented player that I think Drury could negotiate a lower price for.

His injury history worries me and it may be more of a risk than most, but he’s stayed on the ice this season.

8 of his 23 points this season are on the PP and I think at face value you need to look at that with anyone they want to bring in to “help” Mika’s line.

He’s really a middle six guy and not improving much 5on5 in that role, if you are bringing him in for that.

Meh

 

[surlysailor]

That was a different Mika Zibanejad. He’s not the elite player he was 2 years ago. He doesn’t have the same motor.

Those two (Mika and Kreider) just don’t have the puck enough 5v5. Vatrano ain’t helping with that.

You’re going to add a shooter to a line that will be penned in their own zone all night besides the occasional one and done rush opportunity.

This! I don't know what's going on with Mika but he's scared to shoot unless it's his only option. He's differing way more to Kreider than in the past(which is why I was hoping PL would break them up to force Z to be the shoot first guy again). The only reason I think Vatrano can maybe help with that is their familiarity, other than that I'd prefer a zone entry guy or a guy who digs out pucks along the boards. I don't think the latter is really available and I know they're not great names but guys like Duclair, Roslovic, Foegle(if really available) will come a lot cheaper than two years of Vatrano. I do like Vatrano but not at his cost and even though he's having a career year, I'm always wary of overpaying for a guy like that who might fall back to earth when his ice time comes down since he'll only be used at 5v5.

 

[zlev]

an idea would be to find this years 2022 Frank Vatrano and get him for a 3rd rather than give up a shitload for 2024 Frank Vatrano

 

[DanielBrassard]

If there's a Ducks RW that I'd consider putting with Kreider/Zibanejad, it would be Silfverberg and not Vatrano.

There are surely better options around the league but Silfverberg is excellent defensively and responsible almost to a fault. Has a really strong playoff track record (albeit years ago now), and seems like he's finally removed enough from his hip surgery to have some jump back of late. 5 of his 6 goals and 9 of his 16 points on the year, have come in the latest stretch of 18 games. If you're getting the 15-20 goal, 35-40 point version of Silf, that's a very useful and dependable player come playoff time.

He would be a better fit than Vatrano, however the RW needs to be able to distribute, not just be an effective defensive/responsible player. Is Silfverberg that guy? I think I’d prefer to look elsewhere but he’s a good fallback option.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

How about raw stats?

That line, when together, scored 10 and gave up 9 5v5.

Panarin's line? Scored 11, gave up 7

Kid line? scored 10, gave up 5 (in 50 fewer minutes than the Zib line.)

Lowest rate of goals for and highest rate of goals against even just using the most basics of basics. I know going under the hood scares you so I'll spare you that.

What line were they matched against? Was it the other teams top line or their 3rd line? So, worse case scenario they scored one more they gave up? The horror! On top of that Zib and Kreider led the team in goals.

And I know you think you’re the smartest guy in the room but your act is getting old.

 

[DanielBrassard]

How about raw stats?

That line, when together, scored 10 and gave up 9 5v5.

Panarin's line? Scored 11, gave up 7

Kid line? scored 10, gave up 5 (in 50 fewer minutes than the Zib line.)

Lowest rate of goals for and highest rate of goals against even just using the most basics of basics. I know going under the hood scares you so I'll spare you that.

Irrelevant, this has nothing to do with watching the games.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That was a different Mika Zibanejad. He’s not the elite player he was 2 years ago. He doesn’t have the same motor.

Those two (Mika and Kreider) just don’t have the puck enough 5v5. Vatrano ain’t helping with that.

You’re going to add a shooter to a line that will be penned in their own zone all night besides the occasional one and done rush opportunity.

I've got news for you, he wasn't elite during that run either. He'e been a PP merchant since the Covid lockout.

 

[kovazub94]

Easy to say as the keyboard warriors eating chips off their chest. Hard to say what I would do if I was a 20 year old in a foreign country behind Michael Haley in the pecking order and had the option to go make way more money elsewhere.

Haha you amuse me. Kravtsov becoming a dime a dozen KHLer after all is said and done is enough of a proof of (lack of) his internal fortitude that Drury called him out on. Being a failed top-10 NHL draftee of the Rangers is what he will be known for. Maybe also a ton of disparaging memes that came with it.

 

[Guyute]

Ducks fans on the main boards are delusional thinking they will get Kakko for Vatrano and Henrique. It’s like when we thought we would get Sergachev for McDonagh.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

He would be a better fit than Vatrano, however the RW needs to be able to distribute, not just be an effective defensive/responsible player. Is Silfverberg that guy? I think I’d prefer to look elsewhere but he’s a good fallback option.

He's not a complete black hole offensively but pretty much limits himself to the most simple game possible, I don't doubt that there's a better overall option for your top line out there somewhere. Though a contender should pick up Silfverberg for next to nothing, just for the sheer level headed dependability he's shown he can bring in the chaos of playoff hockey.