Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[n8]

I'd be pleasantly shocked if Drury got a 1st rd pick for Kappo. As much as I have been a proponent of Kakko, he needs to move on, for his own sake; change of scenery. He'll be a 60-70 pt player for someone but not the Rangers. They bleeped up his development (should've stayed in Finland/sent to Hartford his rookie season), but injuries and Kakko himself have been partly to blame.

They need to get rid of every defencemen on the roster not named Adam Fox; I'd keep K'Andre Miller but he needs to take a really big step forward. Panarin/Zibanejad need to be moved (NMCs I know); they are not playoff players. Zibanejad is not a no. 1 Centre on a top Stanley Cup contender, more like a no. 2. You don't win Cups with players like that in ther current roles. Whatever UFAs they have they should just let go sign elsewhere.

This roster needs to be blown up. I don't mean go into a full rebuild (they wouldn't do that anyway), they need to be faster, stronger, be pains in the ass to play against. Add depth. Rearrange the deck chairs, so to speak LOL

This is on Chris Drury and his staff to get this team to get to where they need to get to, to be a top Stanley Cup contender. Can you make a Tkachuk/Huberdeau type of trade involving Panarin/Zibanejad? You hope Lafreniere continues his progression, gets from 28 goals this year to 35ish next year. Hopefully, some of the kids can make a positive impact. You hope Chyil can get over his injuy issues, especially with his concussions. The cap will go up some, but that cap space has likely already been accounted for.

I wasn't vehemently for or against the Laviolette hire last summer, but they did win the Presidents Trophy, so he does get some credit for that. He helped Lafreniere break out this season. I'm not sure about hs assistant coaches though, outside of Benoit Allaire.

Kakko can still make it with us but 1) he needs to sign an affordable contract extension. A low AAV Kakko should still be better than a lot of what's out there on the market. 2) he is able to play a full injury free season (or two) with consistent linemates. 3) Either he is elevating his play, or one of his linemates is improving to the point where they can elevate his play. 4) Confidence. This kid needs it bad. You can see the swagger Laf has gotten, not just from consistent ice time with Tro & Pan, but he's more physical, he's making dangles he never used to. It's easy to see. 5) Rangers are patient. If we win the cup this year, that could buy a lot of patience from above. If we are still aggressively in a 'win-now' no matter the cost management mindset, then I can see his development suffer. 6) One of the young guns doesn't outplay him in camp and takes his spot. That's a lot of factors!

I think if you keep K'Andre away from Trouba, he's going to make those steps forward. What could cost Key his spot in NY could be his cap hit. If he's pushing for too high of a number, that puts pressure on the cap and could make him a cap casualty.

You will not get a Tkachuk/Huberdeau type of trade with Panarin/Zibanejad as they both have FULL NMC for the entirety of their contracts. You'd have to force them out in a way that I don't think I've seen from a NY GM. Like Wade Redden was the closest thing I can think of but they buried him and his cap, they didn't really get him out of the organization.

I think Michael Peca deserves a lot of credit for out improved faceoff %
Can't say what Phil Housley has contributed.

 

[Dijock94]

Need a partner for Fox,need puck moving defensemen, need to unload Trouba and his contract,need to find a good trade for kk,need to fill the bottom 6 with quality players.Drury has his work cut out for him

Bottom 6 is in the system. Berard, Edstrom, Othmann, Sykora, Cuylle, Rempe. Chytil, Goodrow

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I figured I'd cheat since the prospect thread gets very little action. I keep reading that the next wave of D-men in our system are Manicini and Fortescue they're 5th and 3rd rounders respectively. Do they have top 4 upside and what kind of game do they play?

 

[noncents]

I figured I'd cheat since the prospect thread gets very little action. I keep reading that the next wave of D-men in our system are Manicini and Fortescue they're 5th and 3rd rounders respectively. Do they have top 4 upside and what kind of game do they play?

does it matter? if they're on the ice when the opponent scores you'll still swear up and down that Shesterkin is to blame.

best not complicate things maybe

 

[SnowblindNYR]

does it matter? if they're on the ice when the opponent scores you'll still swear up and down that Shesterkin is to blame.

best not complicate things maybe

How about you either ignore my post or put me on ignore if you're going to be an asshole?

 

[noncents]

How about you either ignore my post or ignore all of my posts if you're going to be an asshole?

take a joke, guy. learn to laugh at yourself

 

[SnowblindNYR]

take a joke, guy. learn to laugh at yourself

I laugh at myself plenty. And generally don't mind ribbing about my posts but if I sense actual hostility I call it out.

 

[noncents]

I laugh at myself plenty. And generally don't mind ribbing about my posts but if I sense actual hostility I call it out.

well it was certainly intended as mild ribbing.

actual hostility looks more like what you tend to post about Igor

 

[SnowblindNYR]

well it was certainly intended as mild ribbing.

actual hostility looks more like what you tend to post about Igor

Yes, but I'm just a dude on a message board I'm sure Igor doesn't know or care, lol.

 

[NYR Viper]

I figured I'd cheat since the prospect thread gets very little action. I keep reading that the next wave of D-men in our system are Manicini and Fortescue they're 5th and 3rd rounders respectively. Do they have top 4 upside and what kind of game do they play?

I think projecting them as bottom pairing guys is more likely. Maybe an outside chance at middle pairing.

In saying that, I always thought Lindgren would be a bottom pairing guy too and it’s really all about how they mesh with their partner.

 

[xsniper11x]

EDM is unique, where they have two top 5(?) forwards in the world. You can't really compare their D or G situation to other teams.

FLA has a bona fide #1D, plus a lightning in a bottle #2 and some depth. They also have Bob. I guess I'm saying that their D isn't necessarily underwhelming...but it is at least "whelming."

EDM is unique, but not unprecedented. The Bolts, Avs and Pens had similar high end forward quality while still requiring strong Dcores. i guess the Pens were a bit light, but still had Letang logging huge mins. However, I find it less about one team that gets in (esp one w/ a historic PP, that is definitely unique) and more the fact that both teams fit this bill.

I don’t see a bonafide 1D on FLA. It’s very much a by committee approach and you can see that in the TOI. At best, it’s three 2Ds plus three 5Ds that were all just added this year on the cheap. Not to mention, that group of 2Ds is comprised of recent castoffs and an overpaid Ekblad that a large portion of their fan base view in same way we view Trouba. I see all this and it starts to feel like the position is becoming commoditized and can be managed thru great forwards and systems, much in the way goaltending has.

 

[kovazub94]

I wouldn't call making it to game 6+ of the ECF not getting the job done.

99% of the board can’t see the big picture and / or be objective in their evaluation of the Rangers relative to the other teams in the NHL. I bet if the Rangers had FL roster but instead of healthy Forsling it was injured Fox - everyone would suck too

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Kakko can still make it with us but 1) he needs to sign an affordable contract extension. A low AAV Kakko should still be better than a lot of what's out there on the market. 2) he is able to play a full injury free season (or two) with consistent linemates. 3) Either he is elevating his play, or one of his linemates is improving to the point where they can elevate his play. 4) Confidence. This kid needs it bad. You can see the swagger Laf has gotten, not just from consistent ice time with Tro & Pan, but he's more physical, he's making dangles he never used to. It's easy to see. 5) Rangers are patient. If we win the cup this year, that could buy a lot of patience from above. If we are still aggressively in a 'win-now' no matter the cost management mindset, then I can see his development suffer. 6) One of the young guns doesn't outplay him in camp and takes his spot. That's a lot of factors!

I think if you keep K'Andre away from Trouba, he's going to make those steps forward. What could cost Key his spot in NY could be his cap hit. If he's pushing for too high of a number, that puts pressure on the cap and could make him a cap casualty.

You will not get a Tkachuk/Huberdeau type of trade with Panarin/Zibanejad as they both have FULL NMC for the entirety of their contracts. You'd have to force them out in a way that I don't think I've seen from a NY GM. Like Wade Redden was the closest thing I can think of but they buried him and his cap, they didn't really get him out of the organization.

I think Michael Peca deserves a lot of credit for out improved faceoff %
Can't say what Phil Housley has contributed.

I'm quite aware of the NMCs wth Panarin and Zibanejad. You would have to convince them to waive them; I know it's unlikely. But moving those 2 is a must if you want to get to where you need to get to.

At this point, it's likely that Kakko just wants to move on. Them winning the Cup this year is, unfortunately, unlikely.

 

[kovazub94]

The big difference is Schneider will have actual trade value and the other guys won't. He can also definitely be traded whereas someone like Trouba could be impossible given he has an NTC and can easily just make his no trade list all the teams that would have cap space/are contenders if desired. I have very little hopes for him to progress at this point. I find his issue to be an extreme lack of hockey sense and that's not something I find likely to improve. Miller makes a lot of bad decisions too but has way more stick/skating ability/size to make up for them.

Nashville just lost McD per his request. Detroit among other teams is lacking vet leadership specifically on D. I’m sure there are other examples where Trouba could be welcomed especially if the Rangers retain say $1.5m to make his contract more digestible.

PS we have a difference of opinion re Schneider but his age, contract and a developmental leap he made this season would making more appealing to keep over Trouba other things being equal.

 

[xsniper11x]

Nashville just lost McD per his request. Detroit among other teams is lacking vet leadership specifically on D. I’m sure there are other examples where Trouba could be welcomed especially if the Rangers retain say $1.5m to make his contract more digestible.

PS we have a difference of opinion re Schneider but his age, contract and a developmental leap he made this season would making more appealing to keep over Trouba other things being equal.

Yea despite all his warts, Trouba still brings many things old school GMs salivate over. Let’s not forget that ridiculous Risto trade and contract happened fairly recently. I’m sure it wasn’t just Fletcher negotiating against himself.

 

[SA16]

Nashville just lost McD per his request. Detroit among other teams is lacking vet leadership specifically on D. I’m sure there are other examples where Trouba could be welcomed especially if the Rangers retain say $1.5m to make his contract more digestible.

PS we have a difference of opinion re Schneider but his age, contract and a developmental leap he made this season would making more appealing to keep over Trouba other things being equal.

Not to turn this into a Schneider thread but the problem is I haven't seen any leap or progression from him. I see a run of the mill physical third pairing defenseman who gets overhyped because he was a homegrown, former first round pick, and especially because people don't like the guy ahead of him on the depth chart. For example. we heard so much about how good the Miller/Schneider pair was even though it put up worse underlying numbers than the Miller/Trouba pair.

 

[jay from jersey]

Yea despite all his warts, Trouba still brings many things old school GMs salivate over. Let’s not forget that ridiculous Risto trade and contract happened fairly recently. I’m sure it wasn’t just Fletcher negotiating against himself.

Don’t forget the chariot trade to FLA, the Contract extended to him by Det
The Gudbranson Contract, I could go on and on……
Troubas age and length of his current deal will make him an absolute target for teams. His cap hit isn’t ideal, but for budget teams looking to add grit/leadership with internal caps his real $$$ being lower then his actual cap hit is a huge plus.
Most budget teams have cap space to burn but not real dollars…..
I’m surprised this argument/assessment even gets brought up anymore tbh…

I really don’t care what you think of Trouba or how his performed, but he has perceived value around the league for what he brings and the deal he’s on because for Age, Short term, and lower real money means he’s has more plus factors then minus when budget/youth teams are looking for….
It’s exactly how this team was able to acquire Zibby for brassard…… we got the 2nd in the deal because most of his contract was paid off already.
The sens wanted a an asset like that for 2 presumed playoff runs.
They did not want to make a multi-year high dollar offer to Zibby.
We took the chance and it worked in our favor. The end

 

[kovazub94]

Not to be a dick about it but I would say Kreider, Fox, Panarin, Trocheck, and Lafreniere are good players.

Gustafsson is fine. Schneider is ok and I guess Miller is also ok (I'm being a bit generous to Miller, I feel). Zibanejad is streaky and annoying but let's just not get side tracked and count him as a good player.

That's 9 out of 18. Everyone else is playing too high in the lineup or shouldn't be playing at all.

Open to hearing who I'm wrong about. It's really bad.

Regarding Trouba, I don't think we have the assets to acquire the caliber of LHD required to babysit him. I can buy that he has a niche, but I'd firmly rather not have that element and take my chances than have Trouba playing.

Chytil, Cuylle, Vesey. Kakko is frustrating but on the 3rd line he’s not “above”. The others are arguably not far off acceptable at forward. We miss a proper top-6 RW a LOT

 

[jay from jersey]

Not to turn this into a Schneider thread but the problem is I haven't seen any leap or progression from him. I see a run of the mill physical third pairing defenseman who gets overhyped because he was a homegrown, former first round pick, and especially because people don't like the guy ahead of him on the depth chart. For example. we heard so much about how good the Miller/Schneider pair was even though it put up worse underlying numbers than the Miller/Trouba pair.

He’s a 2nd year player who’s had a much better year defending.
Expect him to get more physical, and better at jumping up and joining rushes as he gets more comfortable.
Young Big mobile D are never a finished product right away. That’s why they are such a rare commodity on the trade market.
You either live with the progress or go try to get an established vet for higher dollars.
Schneider saw his usage increase when Trouba went down with injury. He’s handled the extra work load better in only his 2nd full season.
I think getting a finished product like Fox on the team for what we paid when he willed himself here has totally warped the views and expectations on young guys.
Miller is in his 5th season, and he’s not even a finished product yet.

 

[kovazub94]

Not to turn this into a Schneider thread but the problem is I haven't seen any leap or progression from him. I see a run of the mill physical third pairing defenseman who gets overhyped because he was a homegrown, former first round pick, and especially because people don't like the guy ahead of him on the depth chart. For example. we heard so much about how good the Miller/Schneider pair was even though it put up worse underlying numbers than the Miller/Trouba pair.

I saw the leap and he’s still plenty young and cheap. Is this enough to bring more than Trouba who brings (in the eye of a potential beholder difference attributes)? t’s part of the equation. Anyway, this could be discussed in Schneider dedicated thread.

 

[Machinehead]

Chytil, Cuylle, Vesey. Kakko is frustrating but on the 3rd line he’s not “above”. The others are arguably not far off acceptable at forward. We miss a proper top-6 RW a LOT

Cuylle, Vesey, and Kakko shouldn't be playing above 4th line.

 

[SA16]

I saw the leap and he’s still plenty young and cheap. Is this enough to bring more than Trouba who brings (in the eye of a potential beholder difference attributes)? t’s part of the equation. Anyway, this could be discussed in Schneider dedicated thread.

Yea I think he's likely get a 1st round pick just like Skjei did where Trouba probably has very little value given his contract and would be almost impossible to deal without taking salary back.

He’s a 2nd year player who’s had a much better year defending.
Expect him to get more physical, and better at jumping up and joining rushes as he gets more comfortable.
Young Big mobile D are never a finished product right away. That’s why they are such a rare commodity on the trade market.
You either live with the progress or go try to get an established vet for higher dollars.
Schneider saw his usage increase when Trouba went down with injury. He’s handled the extra work load better in only his 2nd full season.
I think getting a finished product like Fox on the team for what we paid when he willed himself here has totally warped the views and expectations on young guys.
Miller is in his 5th season, and he’s not even a finished product yet.

It was his third season. And if there's one thing I definitely don't want from him it's for him to get better at jumping up and joining rushes. He already does that too often.

 

[jay from jersey]

Chytil, Cuylle, Vesey. Kakko is frustrating but on the 3rd line he’s not “above”. The others are arguably not far off acceptable at forward. We miss a proper top-6 RW a LOT

Cuylle has performed as well as can be expected as a rookie thrust into a line up with high expectations.
Kid for the most part hits everything, is real good along the boards, and adds offense on on line that really didn’t help him generate any.
Like many rookies, I thought he slowed a bit as the year went on, due to the amount of games and the increased pace/speed of the playoffs.
He’s an absolute bright spot and a keeper for this team with a solid future.
Chytil is an enigma due to injuries. Every time he gets into a groove, a seemingly nothing hit takes him out of the line up for an extended amount of time and it’s back to square 1 again.

Kakko imo, looks like his skating/explosion/speed has actually regressed a bit.
He’s a solid bottom 6 guy as is, but his total lack of confidence and killer instinct in the offensive zone are truly puzzling.
He’s built like a truck but won’t park himself in front of the net where you have to take a beating to score goals from.
His shot is average to a touch above, but his legs don’t allow any separation from a the D player 1 V 1 for it to be a real factor.
Down low, along the boards, cycling the puck and playing responsible D have been his strengths, but offensively what you want from a 2 OA pick offensively he’s trending in the wrong direction.

If he’s only going to be a middle/bottom 6 tweeener, there are/will be cheaper and better options.
He’s got the pedigree and youth to turn it around still, I just don’t think he’ll ever get the opportunity to do it here.
Rangers will/and should be in the mix to win a cup for the next 3-5 years.

They aren’t just going to sit on their hands when Panarin/Troubas cap hits are gone. More high end talent will be brought in…. That kind of leaves Kakko stuck in limbo in his current situation from here on out….

Yea I think he's likely get a 1st round pick just like Skjei did where Trouba probably has very little value given his contract and would be almost impossible to deal without taking salary back.



It was his third season. And if there's one thing I definitely don't want from him it's for him to get better at jumping up and joining rushes. He already does that too often.

His 1st year wasn’t a full on solid season…

If the D don’t participate in offense, scoring will be a real problem

 

[kovazub94]

well it was certainly intended as mild ribbing.

actual hostility looks more like what you tend to post about Igor

On my ignore but I’m not surprised he’s playing a victim card.

 

[SA16]

His 1st year wasn’t a full on solid season…

If the D don’t participate in offense, scoring will be a real problem

He played 63 regular season+playoff games....