Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

For me, both Lindgren and Trouba are the minimum.

I don't think you can hide Trouba.

He can't even go out there and play 18 minutes.

I don’t think it’s happening. Whether or not the team wants to do it is also a question.

I guess the same applies to Lindgren but less so. Playing 13 minutes in a must win game kind of says a lot.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I mean that was Washington for a decade until Lars Eller/Devonte Smith-Pelley/Brett Connolly got X-Men powers for a few weeks. BTW, 2/3 of those guys are out of the league now. Some would even argue that Eller has one foot out the door.

I don't see Ovechkin, Backstrom or Kuznetsov on this team. All had monster playoffs during that season.

 

[Machinehead]

I don’t think it’s happening. Whether or not the team wants to do it is also a question.

I guess the same applies to Lindgren but less so. Playing 13 minutes in a must win game kind of says a lot.

During which he was on the ice for 1.71 xGA. In 9:52 at 5v5. Simply astounding.

Back in the day, you could at least say "Lindgren has no skill but he's steady" which is still mid af and not the guy I play with my #1, but it was something.

At this point, he gives up chances like DeAngelo while being the worst offensive player in the league.

He definitely has to go first. At least Trouba can just play on the third pair and make life hard for Zac Jones next year. Lindgren is making life hard for a Norris winner.

 

[NYR Viper]

all the times I've watched him, I don't see the complaints from people. I honestly don't watch him anywhere close to players on the East Coast though. His metrics were strong in CGY. He had a strong playoffs. Big boy for the boards and front of the net. Maybe even put him with Fox as he can skate and score goals

Maybe I'm wrong, but the times I've seen him he seems to get caught a lot out of position and again, he's not a great puck mover. So they're adding someone who is a big hitter but isn't going to help the transition game at all.

 

[Machinehead]

BTW, when Fox and Gus were together last night, the Rangers had a slight edge in xGF%. AND Fox is hurt. AND Gustafsson sucked last night.

The leg could be amputated and Lindgren would still be a bigger problem.

 

[Machinehead]

Lindgren is way worse than Girardi ever was.

This year, Lindgren-Fox had a 46.3% xGF together.

Apart, Fox shoots up to a ludicrous 66.8% and Lindgren falls to 40.8%.

In 2015-16, which I consider the nadir of Girardi, he and McDonagh posted a 46.2% xGF together. Very similar, but consider that:

1) Fox is way better than McDonagh, no disrespect.

2) This team is way better.

3) McDonagh only went up to 54.9% apart, which is less insane.

4) Girardi didn't fall quite as far as Lindgren apart (41.6%)

Let's look at their long playoff runs.

In the 2013-14 postseason, McDonagh-Giraradi kind of got worked, to the tune of 42.2% xGF. A LOT of that is SCF where we might as well have played 3v5 when they were on the ice.

Apart, Girardi feel to a very poor 37.7%, which is going to seem like Bobby Orr when you read a little bit further, while McDonagh rose to an effective but not earth-shattering 51.4%.

In the 2023-24 postseason, Lindgren-Fox are getting worked even worse, at 40.6%.

And here's the real kicker: Fox still rises, despite the injury, to 63.1% xGF away from Lindgren, and staggering SEVENTY-ONE PERCENT goals for percentage. Fox, in a flash away from Lindgren, has been on the ice for FIVE Rangers goals. We're scoring almost constantly when Fox is on the ice without Lindgren in the playoffs.

Sit down for this one. Away from Fox in the 2023-24 postseason, Ryan Lindgren has posted an xGF% of 9.98.

NINE POINT NINE EIGHT. About ten.

That's not a typo.

TEN.

The Rangers have 8 shots on goal in those 37 minutes.

This is happening, and we're sitting here talking about literally anything else.

What Lindgren is doing Fox makes what Girardi did to McDonagh look like a favor.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

BTW, when Fox and Gus were together last night, the Rangers had a slight edge in xGF%. AND Fox is hurt. AND Gustafsson sucked last night.

The leg could be amputated and Lindgren would still be a bigger problem.

This was one of the rare shifts Fox got away from Lindgren in the offensive zone. Magically all the forwards and Fox look better and they can actually convert. Margins are razor thin this time of year and when you saddle your best player with an abomination you deserve to lose

 

[zlev]

Lindgren is way worse than Girardi ever was.

This year, Lindgren-Fox had a 46.3% xGF together.

Apart, Fox shoots up to a ludicrous 66.8% and Lindgren falls to 40.8%.

In 2015-16, which I consider the nadir of Girardi, he and McDonagh posted a 46.2% xGF together. Very similar, but consider that:

1) Fox is way better than McDonagh, no disrespect.

2) This team is way better.

3) McDonagh only went up to 54.9% apart, which is less insane.

4) Girardi didn't fall quite as far as Lindgren apart (41.6%)

Let's look at their long playoff runs.

In the 2013-14 postseason, McDonagh-Giraradi kind of got worked, to the tune of 42.2% xGF. A LOT of that is SCF where we might as well have played 3v5 when they were on the ice.

Apart, Girardi feel to a very poor 37.7%, which is going to seem like Bobby Orr when you read a little bit further, while McDonagh rose to an effective but not earth-shattering 51.4%.

In the 2023-24 postseason, Lindgren-Fox are getting worked even worse, at 40.6%.

And here's the real kicker: Fox still rises, despite the injury, to 63.1% xGF away from Lindgren, and staggering SEVENTY-ONE PERCENT goals for percentage. Fox, in a flash away from Lindgren, has been on the ice for FIVE Rangers goals. We're scoring almost constantly when Fox is on the ice without Lindgren in the playoffs.

Sit down for this one. Away from Fox in the 2023-24 postseason, Ryan Lindgren has posted an xGF% of 9.98.

NINE POINT NINE EIGHT. About ten.

That's not a typo.

View attachment 877974

TEN.

The Rangers have 8 shots on goal in those 37 minutes.

This is happening, and we're sitting here talking about literally anything else.

What Lindgren is doing Fox makes what Girardi did to McDonagh look like a favor.

all of this makes me wonder if Fox is really that injured in the first place. it's just Lindgren sucking more than ever.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Zadorov is a great skater who is built for the playoffs, provides clutch offense as well. He’s also one of the most infectious personalities in the league. I’ve been saying we should trade for him for years now

 

[JimmyG89]

One thing I don't want to hear about Lindgren is that he is hurt.

HE'S ALWAYS HURT!

Pawn him off for assets from a bottom feeder. He at least has a reputation. And we've gotten a lot of milage from a guy that was the throw in with the Nash deal.

It's like driving a 40 year old car with two flat tires. The flat tires aren't the only issue.

Miller/Jones/Gus can at least be a potential starting point for the team. If Laviolette is a man of his word, if Jones comes in next season and kills it in camp, he'll be rewarded. He did it when Trouba went down and ran with him over the vet Ruhwedel.

If I'm Drury, I'd be on the phone with Chicago. They've got two young LHD. They were rolling Jared Tinordi last season on defense. He'd fit his role perfectly there. Can roll on the 3rd pair and PK. They aren't trying to win a cup now, they're building. Utah also has no currently sign NHL defense. Can we get back our own 2nd for him?

 

[Machinehead]

One thing I don't want to hear about Lindgren is that he is hurt.

HE'S ALWAYS HURT!

Pawn him off for assets from a bottom feeder. He at least has a reputation. And we've gotten a lot of milage from a guy that was the throw in with the Nash deal.

It's like driving a 40 year old car with two flat tires. The flat tires aren't the only issue.

Miller/Jones/Gus can at least be a potential starting point for the team. If Laviolette is a man of his word, if Jones comes in next season and kills it in camp, he'll be rewarded. He did it when Trouba went down and ran with him over the vet Ruhwedel.

If I'm Drury, I'd be on the phone with Chicago. They've got two young LHD. They were rolling Jared Tinordi last season on defense. He'd fit his role perfectly there. Can roll on the 3rd pair and PK. They aren't trying to win a cup now, they're building. Utah also has no currently sign NHL defense. Can we get back our own 2nd for him?

I'm constantly getting on Miller but he would look like a million bucks next to Fox. He has talent, he's just dumb. Fox could think for him and Miller could just explode through the neutral zone with the puck which is the one thing Fox doesn't do.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This was one of the rare shifts Fox got away from Lindgren in the offensive zone. Magically all the forwards and Fox look better and they can actually convert. Margins are razor thin this time of year and when you saddle your best player with an abomination you deserve to lose

This also was Panarin’s best shift of the series.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm just so exhausted with this team getting tanked by bad players.

All the great teams the last few years: Tampa, Dallas, Florida, Vegas, Colorado. With the expectation of Brett Howden who got to play with Mark Stone, and Jack Johnson who was heavily sheltered behind an all-timer top 4, I see zero bad players in these lineups. No guys who I look at and say "he shouldn't be playing high-leverage NHL minutes."

I say that about half our roster. Why do we always have to have them?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm just so exhausted with this team getting tanked by bad players.

All the great teams the last few years: Tampa, Dallas, Florida, Vegas, Colorado. With the expectation of Brett Howden who got to play with Mark Stone, and Jack Johnson who was heavily sheltered behind an all-timer top 4, I see zero bad players in these lineups. No guys who I look at and say "he shouldn't be playing high-leverage NHL minutes."

I say that about half our roster. Why do we always have to have them?

I don’t even think the forwards are that big of an issue. They can certainly improve and I’m not happy with the performance of some people but you nailed it above.

We have Lindgren and Trouba eating top 4 minutes. That was always going to be this team’s downfall.

 

[JohnC]

I don’t even think the forwards are that big of an issue. They can certainly improve and I’m not happy with the performance of some people but you nailed it above.

We have Lindgren and Trouba eating top 4 minutes. That was always going to be this team’s downfall.

I've been saying this for a longtime, but a lot of the team's issues with scoring at even strength relate to the fact that we've spent years with three top-4 defensemen that are terrible at playing in the offensive zone. Fox being the only top-4 defender that can create from both up high and down low in the defensive zone is not a recipe for goals.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm just so exhausted with this team getting tanked by bad players.

All the great teams the last few years: Tampa, Dallas, Florida, Vegas, Colorado. With the expectation of Brett Howden who got to play with Mark Stone, and Jack Johnson who was heavily sheltered behind an all-timer top 4, I see zero bad players in these lineups. No guys who I look at and say "he shouldn't be playing high-leverage NHL minutes."

I say that about half our roster. Why do we always have to have them?

Yeah, that's a good question. Don't know about half, though.

The question I'm asking myself regarding Trouba is this: is he in a role that's just not suited for his game? Ie... how much would his game improve if he had a bonafide defensive D on his left side (ie.. think McDonagh of a couple of years ago) and he wasn't thrust into this "shut down D" role that he's never been?

As much as he's admonished on these boards for his cap hit, he does bring certain elements that are otherwise lacking -opponents head on a swivel, seemingly the only D that consistently can clear the puck on the PK, etc... I mean, he's nowhere near an 8M+ D but neither is Darnell Nurse.

Also, looking at the Panthers, they also did a number on Pastrnak and Kucherov, too. It's not like Mika and Kreider are alone in this.

 

[JimmyG89]

I'm just so exhausted with this team getting tanked by bad players.

All the great teams the last few years: Tampa, Dallas, Florida, Vegas, Colorado. With the expectation of Brett Howden who got to play with Mark Stone, and Jack Johnson who was heavily sheltered behind an all-timer top 4, I see zero bad players in these lineups. No guys who I look at and say "he shouldn't be playing high-leverage NHL minutes."

I say that about half our roster. Why do we always have to have them?

What I was hopeful for coming into this season with a new coach is that we'd get some of that filtered out. It's happened in pieces.

The main is Lafreniere staying on RW. The latter was splitting Miller-Trouba, but he went back to it for a bit before splitting them last night. One of the incomplete ones was rolling Chytil as the 2C, but that wasn't on him, and it created a dangerous top line.

We never saw Kreider without Zibanejad. Same for Lindgren-Fox. In doses, yes, but not for a prolonged period. I understand the Kreider/Zibanejad not happening based on results, but Lindgren-Fox has gone uninterrupted and the doses have been fantastic for Fox.

Hopefully Drury isn't attached to this and can move on from it. Failing to do that and paying Lindgren will be the primary reason they do not get 16 postseason wins in future seasons.

 

[SA16]

With the same results.

Sure, I'll take the same results again.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah, that's a good question. Don't know about half, though.

The question I'm asking myself regarding Trouba is this: is he in a role that's just not suited for his game? Ie... how much would his game improve if he had a bonafide defensive D on his left side (ie.. think McDonagh of a couple of years ago) and he wasn't thrust into this "shut down D" role that he's never been?

As much as he's admonished on these boards for his cap hit, he does bring certain elements that are otherwise lacking -opponents head on a swivel, seemingly the only D that consistently can clear the puck on the PK, etc... I mean, he's nowhere near an 8M+ D but neither is Darnell Nurse.

Also, looking at the Panthers, they also did a number on Pastrnak and Kucherov, too. It's not like Mika and Kreider are alone in this.

Not to be a dick about it but I would say Kreider, Fox, Panarin, Trocheck, and Lafreniere are good players.

Gustafsson is fine. Schneider is ok and I guess Miller is also ok (I'm being a bit generous to Miller, I feel). Zibanejad is streaky and annoying but let's just not get side tracked and count him as a good player.

That's 9 out of 18. Everyone else is playing too high in the lineup or shouldn't be playing at all.

Open to hearing who I'm wrong about. It's really bad.

Regarding Trouba, I don't think we have the assets to acquire the caliber of LHD required to babysit him. I can buy that he has a niche, but I'd firmly rather not have that element and take my chances than have Trouba playing.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

This also was Panarin’s best shift of the series.

Only so much Panarin can do when the 4 players on the ice set everything up, work the puck to Lindgren for an easy read, and he does this

 

[haohmaru]

Not to be a dick about it but I would say Kreider, Fox, Panarin, Trocheck, and Lafreniere are good players.

Gustafsson is fine. Schneider is ok and I guess Miller is also ok (I'm being a bit generous to Miller, I feel). Zibanejad is streaky and annoying but let's just not get side tracked and count him as a good player.

That's 9 out of 18. Everyone else is playing too high in the lineup or shouldn't be playing at all.

Open to hearing who I'm wrong about. It's really bad.

Well, I think you have to consider the role.

Is Vesey a good 4th line player/PK'er? Yes
Is Wennberg a good defensive center suited to a 3/4 role? Yes
Is Kakko a decent 3rd line player a la Fast? Yes

And I think we have to remember how young some of these guys are -Schneider, Miller, Kakko, Cuylle, etc... They have room to grow.

And you forgot Igor.

 

[zlev]

Only so much Panarin can do when the 4 players on the ice set everything up, work the puck to Lindgren for an easy read, and he does this

i couldnt believe he didnt give that back to Panarin, he was wide open for a one timer

 

[Machinehead]

Only so much Panarin can do when the 4 players on the ice set everything up, work the puck to Lindgren for an easy read, and he does this

Fox and Co. put Lindgren in positions where a trained seal would have 10 goals every year.

This is like four HD chances off the top of my head in the playoffs that he didn't score on.

Martinook robbed him, granted, but a good player just puts that in.

 

[Machinehead]

Well, I think you have to consider the role.

Is Vesey a good 4th line player/PK'er? Yes
Is Wennberg a good defensive center suited to a 3/4 role? Yes
Is Kakko a decent 3rd line player a la Fast? Yes

And I think we have to remember how young some of these guys are -Schneider, Miller, Kakko, Cuylle, etc... They have room to grow.

And you forgot Igor.

I wouldn't have Wennberg and Kakko within 50 feet of my top-9. They're offensively bankrupt players.

Our entire bottom six are 4th liners.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

i couldnt believe he didnt give that back to Panarin, he was wide open for a one timer

Not just that but Bobrovsky is way at the top of the paint and somewhat screened. Just slide it anywhere in Panarins wheelhouse and that’s a goal.

Jones would’ve caught this pass, froze Bobrovsky and the entire defense, and gave Panarin a perfect pass that he could’ve buried with his cock it was so easy