Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Pawnee Rangers]

Been saying the same thing here since posters wanted him traded just before he signed his contract. At the time posters predicted we paid too much and would not be seeing any value in the later years. Well so far he has 125 goals the last 3 years not counting the playoffs. And to your point he kills penalties. Yes he gets quite a few PP goals but isn't that the goal no pun intended. 16 this year out of 37.

People expect him or want to him to be something he isn't. What they fail to remember is how many great and successful players were similar in the past. I know some people may jump on this but has he not been as good as Adam Graves for his career and I loved Graves as a player? Very similar in the sense Graves got a lot of PP goals and goals in front, killed penalties etc. yes Graves won a cup but you look closely very similar.

They dislike him because he doesn’t skate around 100mph all game and hit everyone in sight, he disappears too much (bullshit), he’s not flashy enough, he’s a bad passer with no instincts (another bunch of BS), he just stands in front of the net and tips pucks and that’s easy and anyone can do it (lol), they don’t like that the rangers resigned him instead of trading him for a first and Trent Frederick or Lawson Crouse, recently people dislike him because they think he’s been robbing Laff of PP time. How many people here post lineup with him on the 3rd line?

People don’t even really realize why they dislike him but they just go along with group think. Meanwhile all the guy does is score huge goal after huge goal and has been the only forward to consistently show up in the big games. But in 10-15 years those same people will talk about him like he was the second coming

 

[Kendo]

Kreider definitely has his on/off streaks, and I can acknowledge that fact while defending him to the death. He can be a little inconsistent week to week, but season to season he's been the definition of consistency. He's a horse. #MeatMarket

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Brodzinksi has played 54 games and has the 4th highest point rate on the team, highest of anyone not on the panarin line. And 180 of those minutes were spent with Bonino or Goodrow. I am a Jonny Brodzinski enjoyer and I am proud

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think it’s entirely possible to be unhappy with Kreider’s lack of effort (which has nothing to do with him hitting or not hitting people) while also acknowledging that he’s been a massive bargain on his current deal.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Brodzinksi has played 54 games and has the 4th highest point rate on the team, highest of anyone not on the panarin line. And 180 of those minutes were spent with Bonino or Goodrow. I am a Jonny Brodzinski enjoyer and I am proud

We needed an upgrade at 3C but he's been good on the 4th where he belongs. That line was outstanding last night.

 

[bobbop]

Everyone wants to trade Trouba and Lindgren and replace them with softer players. The Rangers need to get bigger and tougher to play against. I like Rempe and he should be in the top 12 for next season. Othmann is a rough and tumble guy.

Goodrow had a very good game last night. Lalonde knows him from TB. Yzerman might look to replace Lalonde. Berube? Maybe. Detroit is one team which has cap space. Yzerman has Seider and Raymond up for contracts this summer. No arbitration rights. Veleno has arbitration rights. I like Veleno. He was a big scorer in the Q. He won't be that type of player in the NHL but he is becoming a good player. Good size. 6-1 205. Skates well. He would be a good fit on the Rangers. $2M is his contract projection. 2 year contract.

Yzermann isn’t going to fire a coach he hand selected from Tampa.

Usually see things (mostly) as you do, but this one I think is off target. Kakko still has flashes and, to me, it's a confidence thing. Even if he is what he is and that's all he'll ever be, then he's a cost controlled Jesper Fast on steroids and that's perfectly fine for me.

Unless something absolutely knocks my socks off, if I'm the Rangers GM Kakko is going nowhere.

He’s not going to want to be paid like Jesper Fast.

 

[effen]

I think it’s entirely possible to be unhappy with Kreider’s lack of effort (which has nothing to do with him hitting or not hitting people) while also acknowledging that he’s been a massive bargain on his current deal.

I think we need to mentally reframe kreider-zib-x from the 1st line where they're comically lacking impact wise to a matchup line where they win 60-40 at even strength.

What are good two-way players who are excellent on special teams worth? About what they make, honestly.

In a weird way the Rangers have your classic 1st and 3rd lines in them and Panarin/Tro/Laf and a lot of flexibility to make the 2nd group anything they want. Right now its another 3rd-type line but they can change that going forward. It's interesting.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think we need to mentally reframe kreider-zib-x from the 1st line where they're comically lacking impact wise to a matchup line where they win 60-40 at even strength.

What are good two-way players who are excellent on special teams worth? About what they make, honestly.

In a weird way the Rangers have your classic 1st and 3rd lines in them and Panarin/Tro/Laf and a lot of flexibility to make the 2nd group anything they want. Right now its another 3rd-type line but they can change that going forward. It's interesting.

Kreider has a realistic shot at another 40 goal year.

For all his warts, 40 goals at 6.5 is insanely good value.

 

[IDvsEGO]

He’s not going to want to be paid like Jesper Fast.

I think he said fast on steroids, I think a 4-5 year deal at 5m aav would be a nice middle ground.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think people are unfamiliar with most 3C’s in the NHL. Wennberg has his flaws but he fits the need. Good skater, good defensively, good transporter of the puck, good at retrieving pucks. If he scored more consistently he’s a top-6 center who costs $5m+. As he is, he’s likely $3.5m which is a fit for what the team needs for the next 3-4 years

 

[bhamill]

I can’t see Greenway coming here unless you’re moving Rempe out.
His brother hasn’t been the same since last year’s beatdown.

I think you’re reading too much into it. It was a fair fight, nothing dirty. Greenway just lost badly.

 

[noncents]

I think people are unfamiliar with most 3C’s in the NHL. Wennberg has his flaws but he fits the need. Good skater, good defensively, good transporter of the puck, good at retrieving pucks. If he scored more consistently he’s a top-6 center who costs $5m+. As he is, he’s likely $3.5m which is a fit for what the team needs for the next 3-4 years

exactly right imo

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I think you’re reading too much into it. It was a fair fight, nothing dirty. Greenway just lost badly.

I agree it was a fair fight and if I am remembering correctly JD initiated it. Greenway was done for the rest of that season and it was early in the season.
He hasn’t played in the AHL since. Playing this year in the ECHL.
I have a hard time believing that Jordan can easily put that behind him, fair or not.
I might be from a different era, but I don’t think I could.

 

[Fitzy]

So, whether we finish 1st or 2nd there is an extremely good chance (Unless Boston passes us and we end up with Tampa Bay, which would suck) that we play one of

NYI
PIT
WAS
PHI
DET

In the first round.

Who do we like, and who do we not.

 

[zlev]

anyone but Pittsburgh

 

[aufheben]

So, whether we finish 1st or 2nd there is an extremely good chance (Unless Boston passes us and we end up with Tampa Bay, which would suck) that we play one of

NYI
PIT
WAS
PHI
DET

In the first round.

Who do we like, and who do we not.

I’d absolutely love to play the Flyers. We have a great history against them and they’ve been falling apart.

 

[Fitzy]

I’d absolutely love to play the Flyers. We have a great history against them and they’ve been falling apart.

I would agree except it's bittersweet to see Torts lose. I can literally watch his elder years being sucked out of his body every time his team loses poorly like he's hooked up to The Machine in The Princess Bride

 

[Machinehead]

anyone but Pittsburgh

Yeah, I don't know where the f*** they came from but I want NOTHING to do with that.

They hit the post 3-4 times a game. I don't want to be in the vicinity when those shots start going in.

And I don't care what anybody says about Erik Karlsson, the guy has won series by himself every time he's in the playoffs, adding to the two other guys the Pens have that win series by themselves.

I would rather anyone else available in the first round, especially garbage ass Tampa.

 

[Machinehead]

So, whether we finish 1st or 2nd there is an extremely good chance (Unless Boston passes us and we end up with Tampa Bay, which would suck) that we play one of

NYI
PIT
WAS
PHI
DET

In the first round.

Who do we like, and who do we not.

The Islanders and Red Wings are clown shows. Those would be byes.

Philly has Ottawa in 2012 vibes. It would be unwatchable but we would probably win by accident.

Don't know what to make of Washington. They're a really bad team but I don't think there's an opponent we've looked worse against this year.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Yeah, I don't know where the f*** they came from but I want NOTHING to do with that.

They hit the post 3-4 times a game. I don't want to be in the vicinity when those shots start going in.

And I don't care what anybody says about Erik Karlsson, the guy has won series by himself every time he's in the playoffs, adding to the two other guys the Pens have that win series by themselves.

I would rather anyone else available in the first round, especially garbage ass Tampa.

It's weird that you're worried about players who can take over series yet you want Tampa.

 

[Machinehead]

It's weird that you're worried about players who can take over series yet you want Tampa.

Tampa has Kucherov and every other good player they have plays with Kucherov.

Beyond that, everyone is overlooking Tampa's glowing weak spot: Hedman plays 25 minutes a game and he f***ing SUUUUUCCCCKKSS now.

He puts up points on the PP playing catch with Kucherov. Beyond that, it's a third of the game you're basically going to be on the powerplay.

 

[egelband]

Kakko s biggest hurdle is going to be the opportunity he’s going to get here.
Laf has become the defacto #1 RW.
Zibby is set in stone at 1A/1B center due to prior current and performance/contract status…. Up to this time Kakko doesn’t really have any mojo going with him and Kreider.

I think he gets a 1 year deal from NYR, but it’s quickly becoming shit or get off the pot time with him….
If he’s going to stay a 3rd line guy with no PP/PK time the question is going to be with guys on the farm getting closer do you sign Kakko for 3 years 4 to 4-5 mill? Or do you get similar production from Berard or Othmann on an ELC and improve the team in another area from trading Kakko??
Does his agent even want him to sign a deal here longer then 1 year knowing that he’s not getting top 2 line minutes or any special teams time????
Kakko is def a solid player. I doubt we’ve seen the best from him, but I don’t think NYR ever will in his current situation.
Would it surprise me if he’s traded and performs really well in a top 2 line role with PP time? No….
But barring a triumphant injury free year from chytil next year or a trade for a really good 2-way play making 3C I don’t see him getting the minutes to produce more then 35-40 pts….
I would really love for chytil to return healthy.
I would also love it if NYR can somehow manage to sign Stephenson as a UFA……
I think the only way Kakko is kept here long term is if they can role 3 lines that can score/defend with regularity…..
In a situation like that, all parties may be satisfied with a longer term commitment.

Good analysis. It’s a tough spot for him. He’s overqualified for bottom six/no power play. But the team is so deep, that’s what he gets. He could be a top sixer on another team, in my opinion. And I’m sure he and his agent would agree. Best move might be a bridge - he might have to take a discount - and then he eventually gets moved to a team where he has more opportunity. Unless he somehow can figure out a way to mesh with Mika and Kreider. Not saying that can’t happen but so far it hasn’t and I’m sure the team would like it to happen.

 

[jay from jersey]

Edstrom should be groomed for 4C next season. Even if he bounces between HFD and NYR, even if he's put in all 3 F positions. I really think he has potential to be a 4C and PK monster in the league. He does so many subtle things even if he'll never have big production. He plays hard, but he's not just some bruising oaf out there. To me, he's part of the solution going forward.


So many times I've seen new management come in, fire that guy, and then say "New rule: No breakfast burritos at the morning meetings. It's a waste of time and resources." They can boast "efficiency" to the board, but then overall productivity suffers when you're star closers have to take the worse leads. The business version of making Panarin PK.

Agree. Edstrom has the head and the skating to be a very good 4C imo. He should practice constantly with Trochek at the dot in the offseason.
His size and reach along with his hockey sense make him an ideal candidate for the pk as well

 

[jay from jersey]

I love how people get on Kreider. The guy has 37 goals and 32 assists, best net front guy in the game, very good PKer, and always scores important goals. Every single team in the league would love to have this guy and his contract on their team. People need to get off his jock.

Screening the goalie is also an art form that shows up no where on stat sheets. Your body physically takes a beating as well….
Getting out of the way/deflecting shots and view obstruction all go hand and hand.
At least in my opinion, this season I’ve seen more goals go in from shots from the point by forwards and defensemen then any time in the last 5 years or so.

Kreider doesn’t always get an assist/credit for them, but he’s a big part of the results.

 

[jay from jersey]

I think he said fast on steroids, I think a 4-5 year deal at 5m aav would be a nice middle ground.

Doubt they invest that in a 3rd line player with what we have coming up in the system, but who knows.
If I’m Kakko agent, I tell him to sign a 1 year deal. Maybe 2 at the max, but the kids going to want a say about his future/paying time/opportunities