Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Shesterkybomb]

Roslovic is not adding much. I think there needs to be a backup plan of Vesey or maybe even Othmann stepping into that spot. Othmann has been very good lately for the Pack. I’ve watched 2 recent games and was impressed.

How many players are we gonna put into that spot before everyone realizes it's not the RW thats the problem? We've had, Roslovic, Wheeler, Kakko, Lafreniere, Vesey, Cullye etc etc etc. Roslovic has actually made that line quicker, but it still sucks. Solution is to put Kreider with Wennberg and Roslovic and put Cuylle and Kakko with Zib. It will never happen though, Zibanejad and Kreider are married to each other.

 

[mas0764]

How many players are we gonna put into that spot before everyone realizes it's not the RW thats the problem? We've had, Roslovic, Wheeler, Kakko, Lafreniere, Vesey, Cullye etc etc etc. Roslovic has actually made that line quicker, but it still sucks. Solution is to put Kreider with Wennberg and Roslovic and put Cuylle and Kakko with Zib. It will never happen though, Zibanejad and Kreider are married to each other.

The problem is really Zibanejad.

He's paid to be a difference maker.

Instead he is no good (mediocre, lets say, to be generous) at 5v5, which is the majority of his minutes.

It's great that he has generally been very good on the PP and PK, but you can get a specialist for $4m a year to play 3C.

We need a 1C who dominates the opposition every night all over the ice.

I'm f***ing tired of hearing how he's worth it because he's well rounded. No he's f***ing not. Trocheck is well rounded. We need a dominant scoring 1C at 5v5. That's what most of the elite teams have and we don't. It's a massive gap for us if Zibanejad can't get it together, but there's enough evidence that we should assume that this is all he will be moving forward.

If we move out Trouba like we should, and then consider Mika on the block, that's $16m to go 1C hunting.

We have some assets. We can take salary. We need a 1C. If someone shakes loose like Eichel we need to be in on it.

 

[mas0764]

Who is mas?

Me

Rebuilds are bad and don't work.

That's just not true.

 

[kovazub94]

It's just not true.

Let's even assume that at 26, he's still as "old" as a 28yo Staal or 30yo Girardi due to rough mileage. Heck, let's even say he's gonna lose an eye sometime soon. So I'm granting you the real possibility that he's going to break down even worse and sooner than the other two.

$5.5 or $5.7 was just under 8% of the cap back then. If anyone is saying to give Lindgren $7m (8% next season) for 6 years, then we'll all say that's a terrible idea and the same thing as Staal or Girardi.

People are batting about $4.5 for 4 years. That's just over 5% of the cap. If you could go back in time and make both Staal and Girardi sign for $3.6m x 4y (5% of the cap at the time), we would have been BALLIN'! Extra space, no buyout, no cap dump trade.

Feel free to make the argument that Lindgren's body has already broken down worse than those two, to the tune of 2-4 years of lost prime. But it's not so bad that paying him 2/3 the cap percentage for 2/3 the duration is "the same mistake all over again." Unless you're truly wagering on the fact that it's not merely "the same thing," but is "much, much worse." There's a chance, sure.

Go ahead and double down on the pessimism. Just don't wrap it in a package of rational pragmatism. It's simply not the same thing as the other two.

In a perfect world, we could sign Hanifin or someone to something not egregious and then trade Lindgren. He'd have at least *some* value around the league. So I'm not saying he's a perfect little angel that we must protect at all costs. I just think a shorter two or three year deal could be really good for both sides. Four years, still doable. Five, eh, I'm not sure. Six? No way, that's the same thing as Staal or Girardi!

Very good points about distinguishing Lindgren’s upcoming signing (or not) from Staal and Girardi’s last contracts with the Rangers. It wasn’t only the contracts they got per se, but also the fact that these contracts forced their place in the lineup higher because alternatives could not brought in because there was no cap space. From this perspective IMO it’s obvious that Trouba is much more of an issue than Lindgren.

Can Lindgren be upgraded on? Surely but it will cost you extra couple of millions for that spot and thus - not upgrading elsewhere in the lineup.

Again, what happens with Lindgren and Trouba will depend on what happens in playoffs. In a vacuum without this information I’d advocate for “exchange” of $5m 1LD and $8m 2RD for $7m 1LD and $4-$5 3RD via trades and UFA signings.

 

[Fitzy]

Staal and Girardi got contracts at 25-26, it was the 29-30-31 extensions that killed us.

Nevertheless, they were good fits for Tortorella, terrible fits for AV. That really can't be emphasized enough. I've been saying this for years, a healthy Sauer would have 'rapidly declined" after AV took over.

 

[NYR Viper]

Staal and Girardi got contracts at 25-26, it was the 29-30-31 extensions that killed us.

Nevertheless, they were good fits for Tortorella, terrible fits for AV. That really can't be emphasized enough. I've been saying this for years, a healthy Sauer would have 'rapidly declined" after AV took over.

Sauer had a very underrated passing game though. I'm not sure we would have seen that huge drop off in his game. He was fantastic for those teams though.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but this bottom six stinks, they look so flat. I'd love to see Lav go back to:

50-91-24
26-21-74

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The problem is really Zibanejad.

He's paid to be a difference maker.

Instead he is no good (mediocre, lets say, to be generous) at 5v5, which is the majority of his minutes.

It's great that he has generally been very good on the PP and PK, but you can get a specialist for $4m a year to play 3C.

We need a 1C who dominates the opposition every night all over the ice.

I'm f***ing tired of hearing how he's worth it because he's well rounded. No he's f***ing not. Trocheck is well rounded. We need a dominant scoring 1C at 5v5. That's what most of the elite teams have and we don't. It's a massive gap for us if Zibanejad can't get it together, but there's enough evidence that we should assume that this is all he will be moving forward.

If we move out Trouba like we should, and then consider Mika on the block, that's $16m to go 1C hunting.

We have some assets. We can take salary. We need a 1C. If someone shakes loose like Eichel we need to be in on it.

Which is why I'm suggesting him with Cuylle and Kakko, it would really mess with teams trying to line match us, obviously the Panarin line would take the tough matchups, then who does the opponent focus on next, the Zib line or the kreider line? Sheltering Zib a bit might get him producing and i think Kreider Wennberg and Roslovic could do some work.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

"We're going for a rest rotation"
LINDREN AND TROUBA ARE BACK ON THE ICE.

We rest all the players except the ones most in need of a rest.

 

[hardnosed]

I acknowledge Trouba's suck, but people who aren't putting blame on KAM are out to lunch. Pair Trouba with Jones. Jones is at least decisive with the puck, can make an outlet pass or skate it out of the zone. that could shelter Trouba from what is clearly a weakness right now. KAM is a bigger, softer, less offensive Tom Poti. Dude is softer than baby food and will not ever take a hit to make a play. As soon as there is so much a breeze of pressure on him, he hot potatoes the puck away. And again last night he's skating the puck out and just quits on the play. Doesn't shoot it in, doesn't pass it, just kind does nothing and turns the puck over. Awful player.

I don't know if he's an awful player, but the swings are so large for him. When he's bad, he's freaking horrible. But there are some real nice peaks too. He definitely needs to bring that floor up and be more consistent. I remember that play that you pointed out and yes, real bad.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

We showed we have defensive depth when Trouba and Lindgren went down. If Lavy rides Trouba into a playoff exit, will be hard to forgive the coach. Great year and all.

 

[duhmetreE]

Cuylle sitting for Rempe LOL. how is Goodrow or Vesey not sitting?

Jones out with Gus looking back

Coaching staff is losing points with the roster management. Why must every coach be like this.

---

so simple...

Panarin Tro Laffy
Kreider Zibs Ros
Cuylle Wenny Kakko
Brodz/Goodrow/Vesey/Rempe

Lindgren Fox
KAM Schneider
Gus/Jones Trouba

 

[McRanger92]

Cuylle sitting for Rempe LOL. how is Goodrow or Vesey not sitting?

Jones out with Gus looking back

Coaching staff is losing points with the roster management. Why must every coach be like this.

Cuylle has not been good recently and Goodrow and Vesey kill penalties for a top ranked PK in the league. Who else would be coming out for Gustafsson? Id keep him scratched and just let jones play personally but its one or the other.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but this bottom six stinks, they look so flat. I'd love to see Lav go back to:

50-91-24
26-21-74

Kravtsov is back???

 

[EdJovanovski]

HeartI'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but this bottom six stinks, they look so flat. I'd love to see Lav go back to:

50-91-24
26-21-74

Kravtsov is back???

 

[McRanger92]

Trouba back home to Detroit this summer should be a pretty enticing move for both sides. Detroit needs a real "leader" and have a big hole at RD behind seider, who they probably would like to take the pressure off of. Justin Woll and 37 year old Jeffy Petry arent moving the needle. Lots of UM guys (Larkin/Copp/Compher) there as well. They'll have cap space and all their picks.

 

[duhmetreE]

Cuylle has not been good recently and Goodrow and Vesey kill penalties for a top ranked PK in the league. Who else would be coming out for Gustafsson? Id keep him scratched and just let jones play personally but its one or the other.

He hasn’t been good because he’s playing with Goodrow and Vesey who has been struggling. Cuylle should be on the 3rd. Don’t think he should sit for Rempe. But Lavi loves Brodz, Goodrow and Vesey to a fault. He was doing the same thing with Bonino until Drury stepped in imo

Jones coming out after playing well. Especially with how bad Trouba has looked. I get it, they need to try to get Trouba “game ready” in theory. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Can’t wait to see stone feet get matched up against Hughes

 

[DanielBrassard]

Sucks that Jones is coming out but that was going to be the case.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

I'd find out if I could get Batherson for that package. Ottawa is a team who may well consider an

No.

That's just not true.

Rebuilds work when they are run by competent organizations, which some of the "long term" rebuilds haven't had, that's why they are still rebuilding.

 

[bhamill]

Which is why I'm suggesting him with Cuylle and Kakko, it would really mess with teams trying to line match us, obviously the Panarin line would take the tough matchups, then who does the opponent focus on next, the Zib line or the kreider line? Sheltering Zib a bit might get him producing and i think Kreider Wennberg and Roslovic could do some work.

The Panarin line is already the focus of teams defensively.
In your scenario, I think they focus on Kreids 2nd because he has actually scored almost twice as many goals as Zibs at 5v5. So that prob gives Zibs some breathing room. 50-93-24 would be a hell of a shutdown line that could chip in here and there , and since 93 only has 11 5v5 goals anyway... plus Zibs can still get PP time.
I like the idea.

 

[Ruggs225]

Cuylle sitting for Rempe LOL. how is Goodrow or Vesey not sitting?

Jones out with Gus looking back

Coaching staff is losing points with the roster management. Why must every coach be like this.

---

so simple...

Panarin Tro Laffy
Kreider Zibs Ros
Cuylle Wenny Kakko
Brodz/Goodrow/Vesey/Rempe

Lindgren Fox
KAM Schneider
Gus/Jones Trouba

Even a caveman could do it

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Brodzinski instead of Cuylle
Trying Trouba at top 4 again
Making Jones sit out

It’s so wild how, I can agree with just about everything and be in awe of the coach for 75 games. And then in the final week of the season he develops senility or somehow strays from common sense.

Trouba is pretty closely following Marc Staal career honestly they are very similar players and one thing about Marc Staal is he adapted his game to be much safer and defensive minded. Trouba has yet to acknowledge his regression and thinks his issues are “easily fixable”. No they’re not dude you’re cooked now play shutdown 3rd pair role. Staal reinvented himself amidst decline. Trouba is stuck on denial.

 

[romba]

It's one thing to miss an assignment, be late covering a streaking player, go down early on a 2 on 1 and allow the pass, but what occurred last night defensively for Trouba-Miller was downright shameful. Miller showed what he can do away from Trouba (aka not be a train wreck in all zones) but unfortunately Trouba is our C, and they ain't stripping him/sitting hime causing a controversy. What they can do is shelter him with less and easier minutes and call it 'easing him back in post-injury',....but then just keep him sheltered.

Trade him in the off season for some value, or buy him out.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Cuylle sitting for Rempe LOL. how is Goodrow or Vesey not sitting?

Jones out with Gus looking back

Coaching staff is losing points with the roster management. Why must every coach be like this.

---

so simple...

Panarin Tro Laffy
Kreider Zibs Ros
Cuylle Wenny Kakko
Brodz/Goodrow/Vesey/Rempe

Lindgren Fox
KAM Schneider
Gus/Jones Trouba

Absolutely zero idea how Brodzinski is so untouchable.

The d is frustrating but at least I understand.

NYR are not going to ice their best roster in the POs due to reputation. Something every NHL head coach will do. But so frustrating.

 

[Machinehead]

Brodzinski instead of Cuylle
Trying Trouba at top 4 again
Making Jones sit out

It’s so wild how, I can agree with just about everything and be in awe of the coach for 75 games. And then in the final week of the season he develops senility or somehow strays from common sense.

Trouba is pretty closely following Marc Staal career honestly they are very similar players and one thing about Marc Staal is he adapted his game to be much safer and defensive minded. Trouba has yet to acknowledge his regression and thinks his issues are “easily fixable”. No they’re not dude you’re cooked now play shutdown 3rd pair role. Staal reinvented himself amidst decline. Trouba is stuck on denial.

Oh, we're not trying anything with Trouba. He's our #1 defenseman and there's nothing he could do to lose it.