Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[huerter]

17

By Laffy alone.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I appreciate first round picks just as much as anyone else but I would keep Sykora and a 2nd over a late first rounder. To me Sykora and Berard have made great strides in Hartford this year and their value has to be worth a late first rounder.


Sign me up. Both of those teams are in a playoff hunt and just hope Drury doesn't overpay in the final minute of TDL day.

Nashville has the final WC spot so they may just hold.

Seattle is pretty cooked.

 

[huerter]

It goes without saying that you don't want Drury to overpay. Thanks for coming in. Stay cised.

 

[bhamill]

It says Igor is an elite goalie who hasn’t been an elite goalie this year, i.e. the same thing this board has been saying this year. I don’t understand your gripe with that lol.

it says Igor has been an elite goalie in the past, who is well below average now and is not a significant asset/positive in a playoff run… which IS DUMB.

 

[bhamill]

Eberle rocks

View attachment 826453

Trading firsts for older pure rentals, even ones who rock but who don’t put us over the top, has been a losing strategy.

 

[LORDE]

Because we say this every deadline and it’s always fools gold. Continuing to chase low odds leaves you disadvantaged in the longer term where we actually could be good enough.

Was gonna post this exact response... glad I read on a few more.

 

[bl02]

Nashville has the final WC spot so they may just hold.

Seattle is pretty cooked.

Just noticed Seattle is few more points out than I thought even if the Kings look a bit shaky right now.

Barabanov looks pretty noticeable tonight. Not afraid to take to the net with decent speed.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[17futurecap]

Cerny about to kill us all with his eyes.

 

[bobbop]

Anyone who ever wonders why @bobbop always makes a fuss about the locker room should listen to the Neil Smith/Jim Cerny podcast. Team culture is crucial to winning. At this point in the season, you look to add to the room, not upset the room.

 

[tlk]

Anyone who ever wonders why @bobbop always makes a fuss about the locker room should listen to the Neil Smith/Jim Cerny podcast. Team culture is crucial to winning. At this point in the season, you look to add to the room, not upset the room.

Buchie confirmed

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Warning- There are some unusual takes in this video-
Jim Cerny interview with Neil Smith:

"I asked my mom why she named me Neil. She said she picked it because it was safe and I wouldn't get teased in school when I was a kid"...

...

...

KNEEL? SERIOUSLY?

 

[bernmeister]

Also, it’s one kind of bad idea to give up firsts for players who don’t get you over the top when those players are Patrick Kane and Vlad Tarasenko.

It’s quite another brand of stupid to give up firsts when those players are Vatrano and Henrique. These are players that command thirds or fourths any other year.

Yet people on here ready to trade our best assets because these crapbirds are the best available in a sellers market.

They aren’t gonna make a difference people.

generally strong agree
we pd a 4th for Vats coupla yrs ago, and it was an aberration
he was worth a 2nd/+ then and deserves a 1st now

Henrique similar based on supply + demand

I took your comments in a vacuum
Fully agree we should not be doing youth for vets

=================

to the extent this was applicable to the deal floated about where it was 1st + Sykora + we dump Good at full pop

that could be an exception
b'c Vats extra yr next season could = a 1st then recovered, while we get free use of him this PO run
and
Henrique = ufa but if we can slightly overpay on a 1 yr deal W/O trade protection clauses, then we have an additional asset we can convert into futures

 

[Vitto79]

Kane and Tarasenko were all kinds of bad.

Not really . If they did Tarasenko and a grittier F they would of been better off

A hurt Kane forcing a trade here was the problem . They didn’t need more scorers.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Anyone who ever wonders why @bobbop always makes a fuss about the locker room should listen to the Neil Smith/Jim Cerny podcast. Team culture is crucial to winning. At this point in the season, you look to add to the room, not upset the room.

Yep. Which is why Trouba and Goodrow will go nowhere this year. Disrupting chemistry can have a massive impact.

Still though, in the off season one or both have to go.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why won't this team split Kreider and Mika? It's infuriating, they are constantly trying out new wingers, hardly any of them work and it's not the wingers fault as when they go back to their lines they are good again. The easiest solution is to swap trochek Zibanejad, add Kakko to Kreider and Trochek. Try it, give it 5 games. I like what kreider has added to this team but the fact that a young kid like Lafreniere had to move to rw instead of him is telling and it has had a hampering on the makeup of this team. With kreider at rw we could be running laf Zib Kakko, Panarin Trochek Kreider.

Yep. Which is why Trouba and Goodrow will go nowhere this year. Disrupting chemistry can have a massive impact.

Still though, in the office season one or both have to go.

I dont see it. If you listen to the coach talk about Goodrow's effect on the twin towers it seems as though they are happy with him

 

[mas0764]

Context. It is important. The only reason that ANYONE is remotely comfortable with that deal is because we also dump Goodrow in the process.

I don't think that moves the needle nearly enough. Firsts are prize assets. They are chances to get a Perrault, a Miller, a Chytil. We have shown we have a decent track record of finding good prospects in the latter part of the first.

We can't be throwing those assets away to dump Goodrow. Henrique and Vatrano are just not needle-movers. They are also both complete rentals.

Hard pass.

 

[McRanger92]

One stop shop and get Wennberg too

I would trade more than most are comfortable with to get Gourde & Eberle

 

[mas0764]

They aren't crapbirds as you say. I got a bridge to sell you if you think you can get either Vatrano or Henrique for a 4th rounder.

You can't get them for a 4th rounder because it's an insane sellers market right now (as it usually is).

This is also why selling is the way more beneficial thing to do. This hockey culture of "you have to buy or the locker room revolts," is a pure myth and it's a foolish way to manage your assets.

Expensive renting almost never is worth it, almost never pans out in winning a Cup. You will increase your odds of winning a Cup by selling from a non-elite playoff team rather than buying.

Vatrano 26 goals and 45 points would be the 3rd leading goal scorer on this team and Henrique, a center with 16 goals and 38 points is an upgrade over Brodzinski. I'm not saying giving up a 1st and a Berard or Sykora is the right thing to do and I wouldn't do that but don't tell me these players would not help.

We have seen the story with Vatrano. He's not moving the needle. His production is PP production which he wouldn't get here.

Henrique is an upgrade (maybe, depends on if he fits in, we've seen plenty of rentals NOT fit in) on Brodzinski but that's not saying much.

Again, there is very little history of expensive rentals boosting a team with major holes over the top. Yet we always fall for this trap.

I'm sure this team will stupidly overpay like they always do and then yet again not win a Cup and yet again next year we will have the same cast of characters telling us how we have to overpay again because we have holes. Holes that we could fill long term if we just stop renting and then we'd have a surplus.

I don't know how many times we need to see this story play out. The "we have to rent now," narrative is just pushing false hope. Let's increase our odds from 5% to 7%! And we will sacrifice a chance at another Perrault for that miniscule chance.

 

[mas0764]

it says Igor has been an elite goalie in the past, who is well below average now and is not a significant asset/positive in a playoff run… which IS DUMB.

No, it says if he keeps playing how he's played all season he won't be a significant asset in the playoff run, which is true.

You can't ever do a projection based on a ten game sample.

Listen, you can think it's dumb, but all you are doing is coming up with your own sample size, forming a different conclusion, and then saying your projection is better. The chart is at least done with numbers.

I think you just don't like the conclusion.

 

[Levitate]

There’s the argument that their window might not be as possible as it is now with Panarin playing lights out and Kreider producing and maybe mikka returning to form. With them gone and the teams 1st and 2nd overall not living up to their draft status we’re left with a team severely lacking talent that’s extremely hard to replace via drafting in the back end of the first round

Realistically that would probably mean trading a bunch of assets for a starter wants out of somewhere else and possible we wouldn’t like what does the other way

It’s a tougher balance than “we have low odds and aren’t top top favorites we should just sell”

 

[McRanger92]

No, it says if he keeps playing how he's played all season he won't be a significant asset in the playoff run, which is true.

You can't ever do a projection based on a ten game sample.

Listen, you can think it's dumb, but all you are doing is coming up with your own sample size, forming a different conclusion, and then saying your projection is better. The chart is at least done with numbers.

I think you just don't like the conclusion.

I think you just treat that model like its infallible and then spam the thread telling us we have no chance and to stop talking about "overpaying for rentals" like anyone is advocating that. Improve the team at the deadline, every playoff team does it. It's not going to hurt you.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The time is now, Panarin has like another year or maybe two of elite hockey in him, Kreider's level is the same thing. Without both those guys this team falls into mediocrity quickly. I've been banging the drum for patience the last couple years, but this is it, two years to win a cup and then a mini retool imo.

 

[McRanger92]

The time is now, Panarin has like another year or maybe two of elite hockey in him, Kreider's level is the same thing. Without both those guys this team falls into mediocrity quickly. I've been banging the drum for patience the last couple years, but this is it, two years to win a cup and then a mini retool imo.

Totally agree, if not now, when? I think Drury adds 2 forwards and a D. I predict he will trade one of Berard/Sykora or the 2024 1st, but not both. I much prefer the rumored Seattle and Nashville stuff to any trades with Anaheim.

 

[kovazub94]

Playoff picture while far from clear is getting more into focus in the West. It’s getting more and more obvious that expected sellers are falling out of the race. However the fact that we haven’t seen any meaningful trade activities so far (other than Van / Cal) indicates that a) only more obvious names (of upcoming UFAs and others not in long-term plans of their current teams) are on the trade table from the likes of Blues, Wild, Kraken, and b) the trade price for these is extremely high so buyers are not bulging. Who will blink first?