Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Savant]

He's not gonna get a better chance then to go from college to NYR 1st line with Mika and Kreider.

I don’t think he puts up numbers unless he gets PP time so I wouldn’t recommend that he comes here if I was his agent; but I will never say no to a free asset. Signing guys like this make trading draft picks no brainers

 

[effen]

I don’t think he puts up numbers unless he gets PP time so I wouldn’t recommend that he comes here

I otoh don't care about his PP time so I recommend him coming here.

 

[egelband]

the night before Rempmas

Rempspringa.

 

[bl02]

Take out Goodrow. Start rotating some 4th line guys to maybe give guys like Goodrow and Vesey some rest.

 

[BS45]

Not sure Kreider was ever truly on a shit list as much as it is that his cash in value was worth more than a 32 year old.

I have to be honest he is on my shit list! Think he plays like a dog, doesn't skate hard and never plays the body. I think if he ever just let loose and played balls to the wall the sky would be the limit but he takes too many shifts/ periods/games off. It just looks like he floating in space sometimes out there on the ice. He is the most infuriating player to me on the Rangers! Not a Kreider fan at all

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I have to be honest he is on my shit list! Think he plays like a dog, doesn't skate hard and never plays the body. I think if he ever just let loose and played balls to the wall the sky would be the limit but he takes too many shifts/ periods/games off. It just looks like he floating in space sometimes out there on the ice. He is the most infuriating player to me on the Rangers! Not a Kreider fan at all

How much better than almost PPG can he be? I just don't get it. He's not THAT talented.

 

[Alluckks]

Hey J from J!
peace and good stuff to ya

As a reminder I said as some pt, I would consider LaF for Reinbacher++/++++ to see if we could accommodate requests to keep Gabe Per.
It is Gabe P for Rein there.

As for whether LaF should be moved at all, I had LaF + for Slaf +++
at a minimum

I'll briefly address here what I was gonna say rep to 2 other threads about selling high.

It is not that I don't think LaF has further upside.
Remember, when everyone else was all gloom and doom, I predicated vs the herd that LaF would be "the next Steve Vickers" IF IF IF he could get his skating to NHL acceptable. I believe he has already now met the lower middle of that threshold.
I believe he will continue to improve and get to middle-> upper level of SV trajectory.


The pt here is we effed up by not listening to me and doing those stupid rentals. The faster we admit that than I won't have to exasperate everyone by reminding all about it. So IF and ONLY IF IF IF we get a sufficiently high return, we consider moving preferred pieces for profit which helps long term.

There is a decent + amount more of LaF that IMO he will show.
Howev,
IMO, while the level of improvement by Slaf may not match LaF's it will be greater as a percentage. Say LaF has 20-35%further upside. SlaF, who is more raw at this pt, has 60%+ further upside.
Now obv, this does not justify or make profitable LaF for Slaf.
But if MON adds enuf then it is.

I think I should have added a 2nd from Habs there as well.
So a 1st + a 2nd + Barron + Slaf for LaF + Lindgren
should be considered.

Remember cap etc is real
Slaf could be the next of most of what Kreider is, and it would be shrewd to get him now, as the makes that turn these next 2 seasons.
And Slaf is better for us as to cap hit and team control.

Gabe P + Rein are both ballpark 1.5-2 ish yrs away, so no harm no foul there

The Rangers have historically had a bad pipeline for top end forwards. It just doesn't make much sense to get rid of Lafreniere or Perreault, especially for defense. Added to the fact that we have a norris level defensemen locked up for many more years all through his prime, plus several young quality defensemen to go alongside him. The part of our core that has age concerns is our scoring forwards.

Also I completely averse to trading for Slaf.

The other caveat is that there is a lot of credible information that Gorton and Drury have no desire to work with each other.

the night before Rempmas

I hope he takes warmups with a baseball bat instead of a hockey stick tomorrow

 

[Alluckks]

I have to be honest he is on my shit list! Think he plays like a dog, doesn't skate hard and never plays the body. I think if he ever just let loose and played balls to the wall the sky would be the limit but he takes too many shifts/ periods/games off. It just looks like he floating in space sometimes out there on the ice. He is the most infuriating player to me on the Rangers! Not a Kreider fan at all

Just watching how often the team controls play when Kreider is on the ice should tell you something.

Also, a lot of guys that are just skating a ton all over the ice tracking stuff down and chasing usually means they either don't have possession as much, or/and they are out of position and have to skate extra for it.

Nobody ever accused Adam Fox of flying a ton all over the ice.

 

[kovazub94]

Even at 26 Lindgren would be an awful extension candidate.

Let’s not act like this is the first time he’s missed extended time. His game has regressed heavily too. He’s had 1 standout game all season.

Yeah, same as Panarin last year (checking if your avatar still off).

 

[McRanger92]

If the defense falls apart without Lindgren, which has been the case in a smallish sample size in the past, that will give you your answer on whether he will be extended. Its probably not the best idea based on his injury history but if they can keep the years and AAV manageable its not the end of the world.

 

[kovazub94]

It's a fair comparison in the fact that they are both defensemen that played for the Rangers, I guess? You're saying it's worse. Run with that instead of saying "Girardi all over again."

He's already played more games than last season, but hasn't played quite as well. So feel free to make the argument that he's playing worse with each injury, but you can't just tack on an extra non-fact to try and make your argument stronger.

"His play has dipped each season, and he also started murdering more puppies."

I don't think there's a slam dunk upgrade out there, unless Hanifin wants to sign here. If he does, then cool, I have no problem moving on. Outside of that, I'm cool with 4 years for Lindy at the right number. If he's asking $5m or more, then he gets a 1yr QO, and we figure it out the following off-season. So be it.

There’s no denying that both Trouba and Lindgren have been having their down seasons this year on the whole but I was hoping and in case of Lindgren we started seeing signs of a turnaround that unfortunately got interrupted (Trouba could just as well comeback from the injury and start playing at a level higher than what we had seen so far). In both players’ case there will be questions that will need to be answered in the offseason and these answers will depend on how the Rangers fare in playoffs. Let’s assume that whenever Lindgren returns he will continue his trend of improving play and the Rangers advance at least past the second round (fingers crossed).
Then the question turns into what type of a contract Drury is willing to offer that would be acceptable to Lindgren. In this situation if Lindgren will take under $5m AAV for 4 years without trade clauses - I can see it happening even though there’s an argument for cheaper alternatives at a similar skill level or more expense that would be able to perform better. Again IMO this largely depends on team’s performance the rest of the way.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The Rangers have historically had a bad pipeline for top end forwards. It just doesn't make much sense to get rid of Lafreniere or Perreault, especially for defense. Added to the fact that we have a norris level defensemen locked up for many more years all through his prime, plus several young quality defensemen to go alongside him. The part of our core that has age concerns is our scoring forwards.

Also I completely averse to trading for Slaf.

The other caveat is that there is a lot of credible information that Gorton and Drury have no desire to work with each other.


I hope he takes warmups with a baseball bat instead of a hockey stick tomorrow

I always wondered if Drury was Sathers little snitch boy and took the job of the guy he snitched on. Seems Gorton may think so, any sources?

 

[Vitto79]

If the defense falls apart without Lindgren, which has been the case in a smallish sample size in the past, that will give you your answer on whether he will be extended. Its probably not the best idea based on his injury history but if they can keep the years and AAV manageable its not the end of the world.

Is 3 yrs x4.5 reasonable?
He’s not that old yet you just done what a 5 yr deal plus

 

[Kendo]

There’s no denying that both Trouba and Lindgren have been having their down seasons this year on the whole but I was hoping and in case of Lindgren we started seeing signs of a turnaround that unfortunately got interrupted (Trouba could just as well comeback from the injury and start playing at a level higher than what we had seen so far). In both players’ case there will be questions that will need to be answered in the offseason and these answers will depend on how the Rangers fare in playoffs. Let’s assume that whenever Lindgren returns he will continue his trend of improving play and the Rangers advance at least past the second round (fingers crossed).
Then the question turns into what type of a contract Drury is willing to offer that would be acceptable to Lindgren. In this situation if Lindgren will take under $5m AAV for 4 years without trade clauses - I can see it happening even though there’s an argument for cheaper alternatives at a similar skill level or more expense that would be able to perform better. Again IMO this largely depends on team’s performance the rest of the way.

Reasonable take.

 

[TGWL]

How much better than almost PPG can he be? I just don't get it. He's not THAT talented.

He's a smart player. He's tough in front of the net. His hand-eye is among the best in the league. He's quick when he uses his legs. But when it comes to overall hockey talent, he's nowhere close to being among the elite. So I don't know what more fans want from him.

I think if you want to knock him on anything, it's that he is often seen just cruising, especially when going into the boards. There's no urgency on his part to engage in a physical battle although he can definitely handle it. There's plenty of instances through-out the season where the play is dead because he's just gliding into a player with his stick in the air instead of actually taking the body and attempting to get the loose puck. In fairness, Zibanejad can be seen doing the same thing with his stick in the air.

 

[TGWL]

Is 3 yrs x4.5 reasonable?
He’s not that old yet you just done what a 5 yr deal plus

If you're Lindgren, you probably look for something with longer term. At 29/30, I don't know if his body is going to hold up for another contract.

 

[Levitate]

I have to be honest he is on my shit list! Think he plays like a dog, doesn't skate hard and never plays the body. I think if he ever just let loose and played balls to the wall the sky would be the limit but he takes too many shifts/ periods/games off. It just looks like he floating in space sometimes out there on the ice. He is the most infuriating player to me on the Rangers! Not a Kreider fan at all

I think in his younger years he did try to play the body more and was ejected several times for it. He pulled that way back afterwards (and I bet AV had something to do with it). Despite his physical tools he was never a "balls to the wall" kind of player and that's not really a switch I think players can just flip. He also spent a lot of his early years standing around watching the play more because I think his brain hadn't caught up to the NHL level yet...guys will look a lot slower and like they're not "trying' when they're still hesitant and trying to feel their way through the NHL level.

At this point in his career I get frustrated when he obviously does look like he's floating out there and I'm not sure how much of that is being 32 and just the inevitable decline every player will face and how much is him conserving energy and avoiding injury. To be fair to Kreider, he's had some significant health and injury issues in his career and dialing back the physical side of his game to stay healthy and on the ice isn't the worst plan for a guy who is still having some of the best seasons of his career pointswise and still takes his share of punishment in front of the net.

Nobody ever accused Adam Fox of flying a ton all over the ice.

I've seen multiple people complain that Fox doesn't skate hard enough or work hard enough!

THose people are idiots but they exist!

 

[jay from jersey]

If you're Lindgren, you probably look for something with longer term. At 29/30, I don't know if his body is going to hold up for another contract.

I agree…. Prob 4-yrs close to 5 mill per
5 years probably closer to 4.5 mill per…

You sign him cause he’s 26 and it takes him to 30-31 and he’s the devil you know.
You know what your getting out of Lindgren for better or worse…..
If need be, and a better alternative comes up, that’s a very traceable contract 2-3 years down the line with cap increases…..
People that just want him out, with no idea what/who to replace him with? And at what cost are not thinking straight.

This is def not a deal I give a NMC/MNTC by the way either…

 

[Savant]

I agree…. Prob 4-yrs close to 5 mill per
5 years probably closer to 4.5 mill per…

You sign him cause he’s 26 and it takes him to 30-31 and he’s the devil you know.
You know what your getting out of Lindgren for better or worse…..
If need be, and a better alternative comes up, that’s a very traceable contract 2-3 years down the line with cap increases…..
People that just want him out, with no idea what/who to replace him with? And at what cost are not thinking straight.

This is def not a deal I give a NMC/MNTC by the way either…

You know. I’d say the opposite and say that you do not know what you are getting out of Lindgren because of the damage he’s taken. He could break down at any point. It’s a very risky use of cap space for a team that does not have much wiggle room

 

[jay from jersey]

Take out Goodrow. Start rotating some 4th line guys to maybe give guys like Goodrow and Vesey some rest.

I would do this as well. They have ridden the 1st 3 lines pretty hard all year too.

It would be better if they can deploy their 4th line a few more mins each game leading up to playoffs….
I know they want to win the division, I guess a lot of factors will affect the decisions, how well out make-shift D performs in this stretch is at the head of the line

 

[Levitate]

The big ongoing issue with Lindgren to me is that you cannot sign him for another 4-5 years with the idea that he's your default #1 LD. I don't care how comfortable Fox is with him or how good he might have been in the past, the Rangers need to upgrade that #1 LD and not rely on a guy who has been trending downwards for several years now and is injury prone because he has no idea how to protect himself.
He shouldn't have to be a "warrior" because of all the bad hits he takes...he should do a better job not taking all those hits. Other players can do it. Other players can do it and be more effective than he is. You don't sink that kind of investment into a guy who can't stay healthy when it matters precisely because of his careless play, and you don't sink that kind of investment into a guy who isn't terribly good and then keep running him out on the first pairing to get propped up by your superstar

If Lindgren was the 3rd LD and paid accordingly, sure, whatever. Don't tie yourself to him as the #1 LD for years to come with a bad contract though

 

[McRanger92]

Is 3 yrs x4.5 reasonable?
He’s not that old yet you just done what a 5 yr deal plus

Id be comfortable with that. More concerned about the years than the AAV tbh.

 

[jay from jersey]

The big ongoing issue with Lindgren to me is that you cannot sign him for another 4-5 years with the idea that he's your default #1 LD. I don't care how comfortable Fox is with him or how good he might have been in the past, the Rangers need to upgrade that #1 LD and not rely on a guy who has been trending downwards for several years now and is injury prone because he has no idea how to protect himself.
He shouldn't have to be a "warrior" because of all the bad hits he takes...he should do a better job not taking all those hits. Other players can do it. Other players can do it and be more effective than he is. You don't sink that kind of investment into a guy who can't stay healthy when it matters precisely because of his careless play, and you don't sink that kind of investment into a guy who isn't terribly good and then keep running him out on the first pairing to get propped up by your superstar

If Lindgren was the 3rd LD and paid accordingly, sure, whatever. Don't tie yourself to him as the #1 LD for years to come with a bad contract though

Unless your throwing 7.8-8 mill x 7 for a 30 yr old Hanifin
Or trading assets you don’t want to Berard/Oth/Per/1sts. Show me a better alternative in the next 2-3-4 years???
You sign Lindgren, you don’t have to keep him as 1st pair for the whole deal, but at least you know what you’re getting for the most part…
Pay Skjei big $$$????? Shall I revisit those old threads. People killed him on here……

 

[Levitate]

Unless your throwing 7.8-8 mill x 7 for a 30 yr old Hanifin
Or trading assets you don’t want to Berard/Oth/Per/1sts. Show me a better alternative in the next 2-3-4 years???
You sign Lindgren, you don’t have to keep him as 1st pair for the whole deal, but at least you know what you’re getting for the most part…
Pay Skjei big $$$????? Shall I revisit those old threads. People killed him on here……

I mean, literally almost anyone that vaguely ticks the box of "top four defenseman" would probably end up being better. Fox has shown you dont' have to be a world beater to play with him, but the Rangers can and should do better than Lindgren at this point. Again, if for no other reason at all than he absolutely cannot be relied upon to stay healthy and that will only get worse as he ages

 

[NYR Viper]

Unless your throwing 7.8-8 mill x 7 for a 30 yr old Hanifin
Or trading assets you don’t want to Berard/Oth/Per/1sts. Show me a better alternative in the next 2-3-4 years???
You sign Lindgren, you don’t have to keep him as 1st pair for the whole deal, but at least you know what you’re getting for the most part…
Pay Skjei big $$$????? Shall I revisit those old threads. People killed him on here……

I'd throw $7-7.5m at Hanifin if he reaches UFA