Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[kovazub94]

sell high, given mins to youth

This is the type of posts that damage your reputation and no amount “I told you so” on Rempe will fix it (because Vesey is not taking any youngster spot on the roster and his contribution especially relative to his cap cost makes it worth more to a SC contender than any 2nd or whatever round pick you’re dreaming of returning).

 

[kovazub94]

The playoffs will determine the future of several players…

Trouba
Lindgren
Schneider
Kakko
Goodrow

The longer the Rangers play the better chance for all of these guys to stay

Definitely agree with the whole sentiment but I’d swap Schneider for Kreider on the list

 

[kovazub94]

posted in the around the league thread, the best case is that we go far and KK has a decent but not breakthrough POs so we get him signed for number much better than 4.5 and for longer than 4 years if possible but I can't imagine he'd be down to eat UFA years for a small AAV

I understand where you’re coming from in your assessment but it’s not going to work like that. @BBKers is much closer because Kakko wouldn’t allow to be locked to such a low number over such a long term. He’d sign to 3- or 4- year contract and figure to get his game to the higher level during that time to really cash in afterwards. And at worse he’d get a higher contract via rising cap and being a UFA in his prime.

 

[duhmetreE]

I disagree with the sentiment that Trouba is such a weight on this team. This hasn’t been his best season but he is the Captain. He is a proven top four defenseman. You run the risk that comes with moving your Captain. If Trouba has a bad playoff run and the team implodes, he is fair game. I’m not 100% sold on Schneider moving into the top four. I like the player. I want to see more of him under matchup pressure.

A two year contract takes Kakko to UFA. Not happening. He either gets a year, a longer deal (e.g. Chytil) or he is moved this summer. He will have to earn the longer deal. Right now, I’m not signing up for anything more than a year. I think the best move for him personally is a change of scenery. Again, show me how he does in the playoffs.

There are a lot of variables in play. Let’s see what happens in May and how things look then.

I like what he provides but as a 3-RD. Trouba is a weight because of his contract and being overslotted imo. A player making his salary needs to be leading the team in production on the ice, not only off the ice. He is extremely immobile and it's getting worse. He and the league are going in opposite directions in terms of mobility.

I personally think Schneider is arguably better than Trouba. We wont know until he gets the Trouba assignments. Sure there will be some growing pains but the next 2-3 weeks should be telling, with Trouba out.

My mistake. I thought a 2 year would buy a UFA year. 1 or 3. IMO the org would keep him unless a deal 'too good to pass up' comes along.

 

[NYR Viper]

A 1 year deal for Kakko and the Rangers makes sense. See if this year was a blip and sign longer term next off-season.

 

[McRanger92]

A 1 year deal for Kakko and the Rangers makes sense. See if this year was a blip and sign longer term next off-season.

If Kakko finds chemistry on this line with Cuylle and Wennberg and gets hot down the stretch and in the playoffs, he's earned a long-term deal from us. You can tell this is the outcome Drury wants most.

 

[IDvsEGO]

A 1 year deal for Kakko and the Rangers makes sense. See if this year was a blip and sign longer term next off-season.

It doesn’t because it sets him for contract negotiations during the same time as Laf. Thats not great from a timing perspective. Better to do 2-3 year deal to keep them on different times.

 

[NYR Viper]

If Kakko finds chemistry on this line with Cuylle and Wennberg and gets hot down the stretch and in the playoffs, he's earned a long-term deal from us. You can tell this is the outcome Drury wants most.

I mean that's the best case scenario for all parties.

If we look at him since returning from injury:

3 points in 20 games before his injury
9 points in 22 games since the injury (1 on the PP)

That's pretty respectable numbers after his injury. If Drury offered a 4-5 year deal at around $3.5-$4m would Kakko take it?

It doesn’t because it sets him for contract negotiations during the same time as Laf. Thats not great from a timing perspective. Better to do 2-3 year deal to keep them on different times.

At that point Kakko is a UFA which I think they would like to avoid though.

 

[RangerBoy]

Elliotte Friedman discussed the Rangers and Guentzel on 32T. Pittsburgh shopped the Canes offer to other teams. Vegas. Vancouver. Rangers. The Rangers were the best team positioned to beat the offer. The Rangers could have gotten Guentzel if the Rangers included a certain prospect. Othmann or Perreault. Drury said no. Thankfully no.

Too much talk about Crosby. Poor Sid. Erik Karlsson. More talk about Karlsson.

Frank Seravalli said on his pod DFO Rundown some teams felt the Hertl trade could have been made in the summer with more teams in the mix. One GM sent him a text saying that. Get Grier on the phone this summer for Goodrow.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Elliotte Friedman discussed the Rangers and Guentzel on 32T. Pittsburgh shopped the Canes offer to other teams. Vegas. Vancouver. Rangers. The Rangers were the best team positioned to beat the offer. The Rangers could have gotten Guentzel if the Rangers included a certain prospect. Othmann or Perreault. Drury said no. Thankfully no.

Too much talk about Crosby. Poor Sid. Erik Karlsson. More talk about Karlsson.

Frank Seravalli said on his pod DFO Rundown some teams felt the Hertl trade could have been made in the summer with more teams in the mix. One GM sent him a text saying that. Get Grier on the phone this summer for Goodrow.

Yeah I'm not sure what Grier is doing out there in San Jose. He has been questionable at best...

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah I'm not sure what Grier is doing out there in San Jose. He has been questionable at best...

He's trying to alleviate cap concerns and move out the older guys. The Hertl contract never made sense for where the team was. Good on them for getting a couple of 1st's for him.

Couture will be the next one to go.

 

[Gardner McKay]

He's trying to alleviate cap concerns and move out the older guys. The Hertl contract never made sense for where the team was. Good on them for getting a couple of 1st's for him.

Couture will be the next one to go.

Sure... but why rush to make the move before the deadline? You have much more flexibility during the summer.

I feel like all of the deals he has made so far have been for very underwhelming returns.

I do agree that the Hertl contract made no sense.

 

[RangerBoy]

He's trying to alleviate cap concerns and move out the older guys. The Hertl contract never made sense for where the team was. Good on them for getting a couple of 1st's for him.

Couture will be the next one to go.

Couture has a hip/groin issue. His career might be over. The guy has played 6 games this season. Three more seasons remaining.

 

[SA16]

He's trying to alleviate cap concerns and move out the older guys. The Hertl contract never made sense for where the team was. Good on them for getting a couple of 1st's for him.

Couture will be the next one to go.

I think Couture might be stuck there. They can't retain, unlikely to get a 3rd party broker pick up a significant amount of caps for multiple years at a reasonable cost, he makes 8M, he essentially missed the entire season this year, and he effectively has a full NTC. Going to be extremely hard to move him and certainly nobody is taking on his cap hit without seeing him play at his usual level and show he's healthy.

 

[bernmeister]

Bold: word salad.

You said "Skjei over Lindy, but the better option is youth (Scanlin)." We're talking about a top 4 spot here.

We need to stop not having good youth? Laf, KK, Fil (dog willing), Cuylle, Edstrom, Rempe, Miller, Schneider, and Hartford bursting at the seams...are we even watching the same team??? Not to mention Shesty, Fox, and even Lindgren himself just aging out of that range and being on the young side of "vets."

"Develop youth!"
"How about giving Jones a real shot at 3rd pair next year?"
"No, not like that."
LOLOL

Vesey is waaay better suited for the 4th line than Ott or Beebs.

You are not misquoting me, thank you.
But context.
We need to go younger than either Skjei or Lindy or similar vet placeholder.
It is on me and I apologize if that was not clearer, but not ''word salad'.

Jones is another Fox, a super lite copy. For obv reasons we are married to the original. We need size and speed and stickhandling. We should recover assets to help w/what was squandered.

We should have dealt Lindgren + Jones + pair of 3rds for a pair of 2nds.

Should have accepted growing pains on robertson, etc and should still do now.

Lindgren is not frail, but he is HUGELY suffering from wear and tear.

Say he holds up most of the way and gets crushed to IR.
Our reserves are thinner b'c we did not develop.

this mostly comes down to if one has immediate vs long term view

 

[bernmeister]

This is the type of posts that damage your reputation and no amount “I told you so” on Rempe will fix it (because Vesey is not taking any youngster spot on the roster and his contribution especially relative to his cap cost makes it worth more to a SC contender than any 2nd or whatever round pick you’re dreaming of returning).

that is yr opinion and you are entitled to it even if under review it is wrong.

The bigger picture is develop youth-> have cap flexibility. The cap is unyielding. This is not baseball or other where you can elect to go over cap and pay a premium tax, which is still not a good idea.

Now w/that established as reality, the ? is how is that realized.

We took a positive step this time around by not giving away2 best prospects or a 1st for a vet.

But however, we are still paying for recent past mistakes w/win now deals = epic fail.

I'm grateful we have a few nice pieces as you indicate, but they are what they are, no more, no less.

That acknowledged, we have insufficient depth IMO

And further, while Vesey carries his weight +, there is no ? we are better off w/a young RD like Barron instead, both to help w/our Trouba situation and add immediate depth.

 

[NYR Viper]

Sure... but why rush to make the move before the deadline? You have much more flexibility during the summer.

I feel like all of the deals he has made so far have been for very underwhelming returns.

I do agree that the Hertl contract made no sense.

With contracts like that, he may be thinking 'lets make the move while we can'. Waiting until the offseason may have been the better choice but at some point, just ripping the bandaid off may be the best course. He now knows he has an additional large amount of cap space available coming up.

 

[IDvsEGO]

With contracts like that, he may be thinking 'lets make the move while we can'. Waiting until the offseason may have been the better choice but at some point, just ripping the bandaid off may be the best course. He now knows he has an additional large amount of cap space available coming up.

Sure but he just retained for 6 years! And got essentially two firsts…
to a division rival.
You would never see the islanders or devils make that move with us. The optics are terrible

 

[Savant]

Couture has a hip/groin issue. His career might be over. The guy has played 6 games this season. Three more seasons remaining.

Sounds perfect for Vegas

I would be looking squarely at SJ and Arizona for Lindgren. Both teams will want to improve next year and will want to get a younger veteran who can be around for a bit. Lindgren has the makings of a guy who wears an 'A' for a long time. Both teams have picks.

What about:

Goodrow + Lindgren for Sturm + Picks

If you move Lindgren you have to get a Dman back. I don’t think there is a need for Stu next season either. Would look elsewhere

 

[NYR Viper]

Sounds perfect for Vegas


If you move Lindgren you have to get a Dman back. I don’t think there is a need for Stu next season either. Would look elsewhere

I'd take Sturm mainly to move Goodrow with no retention...


I think I'd rather get picks to backfill the pipeline and go after a UFA but I could see the desire to get a young d-man if possible

 

[Savant]

I'd take Sturm mainly to move Goodrow with no retention...


I think I'd rather get picks to backfill the pipeline and go after a UFA but I could see the desire to get a young d-man if possible

Yeah I mean there’s so logic in that, but you can’t move Lindgren without getting a D back because there is just no organizational depth there. Also you kind of have to assume (hope) Chytil is coming back, and even if he doesn’t you have Edstrom, Rempe, Brodzinski, etc that can do the same role Sturm can; probably not as well but you have to manage assets a certain way too. Even if moving Goodrow is ideal, you can’t do that and create another hole that we don’t have the cap to plug

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

1 year $2M for Kakko makes sense if they aren't trading him in the offseason. Prove it year.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The more I think about it, the more frustrating it is that they couldn’t make a move for Hanifin. He would have fit both well short term and long term. Allowed them to move Lindgren and/or Trouba while stabilizing the D and his extension would not be crazy due to lack of PP points.

I’m sure there is a good chance he just didn’t want to come here.

 

[NYR Viper]

The more I think about it, the more frustrating it is that they couldn’t make a move for Hanifin. He would have fit both well short term and long term. Allowed them to move Lindgren and/or Trouba while stabilizing the D and his extension would not be crazy due to lack of PP points.

I’m sure there is a good chance he just didn’t want to come here.

He would have been perfect, for sure. I'll say that this is also why the 2nd kick to acquiring Kane last year hurts. Drury just didn't have the resources this year

 

[zlev]

its so funny how it's become unanimous that trading for kane last year was a bad decision. this place was so pumped when it happened last year. it's like the iraq war of rangers trades.