Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part X — Active Roster in OP (09/28)

[NYR Viper]

There will be spots that open up throughout the year, whether that’s injuries or trades. Gorton has more than a few pieces that should interest other teams. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smith or Staal are fed a lot of minutes to make them more attractive to other teams at the deadline. McQuaid will most likely be dealt at the deadline. Hayes. Zuccarello. Vesey? Namestnikov? Spooner? Beleskey?

Another half year in the AHL for Andersson, who only played a small amount of games down there last year, Hajek, ADA and others will have a shot

 

[nyr2k2]

DeAngelo not playing is worse than Staal playing. There was a rough consensus in the PGT every game he played that he was one of the standout players, if not the outright best player, and his on-ice metrics back it up - yet he is sitting on opening night.

Not seeing the meritocracy here, Dave.

Eh, that was a very rough consensus. So rough that I wouldn't call it a consensus. I know a lot of people loved everything that he did, but a lot of others didn't. I'd say it was 50/50. The same can be said for the ADA vs. Pionk debate which shouldn't exist: you claim ADA was/is 1000% better, but, I don't know, I think a lot of people have voiced opinions to the contrary. Neither is that much better than the other, in my view. I think it's pretty close.

But regardless, the point of it all is that we had quite a few people who weren't enamored with ADA's game. It doesn't shock me that the coaching staff might feel the same way. I mean I personally believe he should be playing--I think his play warranted that--but it's not a huge stretch for me to see why a coach would feel otherwise. I also assumed they'd do some sort of rotation with ADA, Pionk, and McQuaid. This may be it.

This is also why I always laughed when people used the "developmental coach" label. Such a dumb thing. Yeah, maybe he's good at developing players. But, coaches know that ultimately they are judged on wins and losses. For Quinn, probably not this year. Probably not next year. But beyond that? He's going to need to worry more about winning games than being a "developmental coach." All this just means that he's going to try to win games, and while I'm sure he will work to develop players to make his team stronger long term, he's still going to do some things in the short term that are "win now" moves (even if we think they're wrong based on our evaluations).

 

[silverfish]

This is also why I always laughed when people used the "developmental coach" label. Such a dumb thing. Yeah, maybe he's good at developing players. But, coaches know that ultimately they are judged on wins and losses. For Quinn, probably not this year. Probably not next year. But beyond that? He's going to need to worry more about winning games than being a "developmental coach." All this just means that he's going to try to win games, and while I'm sure he will work to develop players to make his team stronger long term, he's still going to do some things in the short term that are "win now" moves (even if we think they're wrong based on our evaluations).

This guy gets it.

 

[RangerBoy]

Mats Zuccarello, New York Rangers: The rebuilding Rangers will have a few potential pieces to move come February and unless they surprise and contend for a playoff spot this season, the 31-year-old pending UFA will be the most attractive piece. The Norwegian winger could be a nice consolation prize for contenders falling short on Panarin. By the way, pending UFAs Kevin Hayes and Adam McQuaid could also be on the move before the deadline.



Pierre lists one D. Elder. McQuaid would be one of the top rental D.

Zuccarello
Panarin
Bobrovsky
Duchene
Stone
Howard
Eric Staal
Edler
Eberle
Nyquist

LeBrun thinks Nyquist would be perfect for San Jose.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Eh, that was a very rough consensus. So rough that I wouldn't call it a consensus. I know a lot of people loved everything that he did, but a lot of others didn't. I'd say it was 50/50. The same can be said for the ADA vs. Pionk debate which shouldn't exist: you claim ADA was/is 1000% better, but, I don't know, I think a lot of people have voiced opinions to the contrary. Neither is that much better than the other, in my view. I think it's pretty close.

But regardless, the point of it all is that we had quite a few people who weren't enamored with ADA's game. It doesn't shock me that the coaching staff might feel the same way. I mean I personally believe he should be playing--I think his play warranted that--but it's not a huge stretch for me to see why a coach would feel otherwise. I also assumed they'd do some sort of rotation with ADA, Pionk, and McQuaid. This may be it.

This is also why I always laughed when people used the "developmental coach" label. Such a dumb thing. Yeah, maybe he's good at developing players. But, coaches know that ultimately they are judged on wins and losses. For Quinn, probably not this year. Probably not next year. But beyond that? He's going to need to worry more about winning games than being a "developmental coach." All this just means that he's going to try to win games, and while I'm sure he will work to develop players to make his team stronger long term, he's still going to do some things in the short term that are "win now" moves (even if we think they're wrong based on our evaluations).

Bolded, for posterity, was hyperbole. Though I do believe there is a significant performance differential between the two.

 

[NYR713]

I don't think Quinn will go all AV on us.

I am sure Gorton is actively trying to move Staal. Can't do that if he doesn't play some games. Better them being preseason games than regular season games (although I am sure he will get some too).

If this was still AV's world, Howden, Chytil and DeAngelo wouldn't be on the main roster (waivers risk be damned), we would have traded for Matt Martin, we would have signed a backup instead of giving Georgiev a shot, etc.

And this last part is in no way directed at you @Go Away Staal because I almost always agree with you...

People complain that we will be too good to get a high draft pick. Then, at the same time, they complain because Staal isn't an NHL defenseman anymore and he is likely going to play a decent amount. Just saying... You can't have it both ways.

Not only is Gorton likely working on a way to move Staal, Smith's resurgence is the greatest gift they're receiving. The way they've stripped everything down past the 3-season-from-now-mark and have all these 2 and 3 year ELC contracts, they will be able to retain some money on both if they can ship them out. Staal isn't helping matters with his play, but Smith is building, at least some, trade value. I'm sure they're feeling pretty comfortable after Hajek's showing as well as a guy like O'Gara who can move without waivers but is old enough to sit in the press box with the big club without worrying about stunting development. I think that is also why Claesson is there, so they can work freely on trying to make a move.

On a completely different note, I love the look of that 1st PP unit. Vesey on the 2nd unit was a bit baffling until someone mentioned in a post that he'd likely be camped in front of the net, screening and looking to clean up garbage. That's an area he's effective with a decent body frame and a little grit. But, I wouldn't mind Lettieri on that LP over Spooner, just due to his RH shot that he lets go at will.

I'm excited to get this shit started! A lot of people need to find some patience. If some of these vet guys aren't playing, then they're not building trade value. There is nothing wrong with Lias and Hajek getting started in the A. They'll get their call ups. It's a pressure-less season as a fan, with no expectations of success. If they do good, we get to watch some wins and have fun. If they do bad, hopefully we see more asset building and young guys develop and top it off with a better 1st rd pick.

 

[Tawnos]

I’ve been in the mountains for a few days, and come back to be totally unsurprised by the lack of a clear frame of reference people have.

Roster decisions in a rebuild are NOT based on merit alone. Anyone who expected that Quinn would make decisions that way was, simply put, being narrow-minded. I’ve been trying to tell you guys this for weeks. Player development is not about “if this kid is better than that vet, he should be in the NHL.” Player development is about doing what’s right for the prospect, yes partially in relation to how he stands relative to vets, but mostly it’s about where he stands as an individual. So that might mean that, while Hajek might have played better than Staal (which I agree with), it might not be the right move to have him up with the big club. Particularly when you have a vet who can keep you in a holding pattern for the moment. IMO the same thing could be said about Gettinger vs Vesey. Andersson... that’s more of a numbers thing, and no... playing him or Chytil on the wing was not an option. Once again, we have too little information on this, since we don’t have a handle on what went on in practice (is this the nature of things or do our beat writers just suck?).

I am surprised that Skjei seems to be paired with McQuaid, although I don’t know that I consider that a top pair. Hell, looking at the pairs, I don’t think we really have a top one. Then again, I didn’t think Skjei performed particularly well in pre-season games, so who knows.

 

[Fitzy]

We shouldn't eliminate entirely the possibility of a Hayes or Zuccarello extension.

They'll be dealt if there is nothing like that completed, though, obviously. Could be another draft with 3 first round picks.

 

[Ola]

Eh, that was a very rough consensus. So rough that I wouldn't call it a consensus. I know a lot of people loved everything that he did, but a lot of others didn't. I'd say it was 50/50. The same can be said for the ADA vs. Pionk debate which shouldn't exist: you claim ADA was/is 1000% better, but, I don't know, I think a lot of people have voiced opinions to the contrary. Neither is that much better than the other, in my view. I think it's pretty close.

But regardless, the point of it all is that we had quite a few people who weren't enamored with ADA's game. It doesn't shock me that the coaching staff might feel the same way. I mean I personally believe he should be playing--I think his play warranted that--but it's not a huge stretch for me to see why a coach would feel otherwise. I also assumed they'd do some sort of rotation with ADA, Pionk, and McQuaid. This may be it.

This is also why I always laughed when people used the "developmental coach" label. Such a dumb thing. Yeah, maybe he's good at developing players. But, coaches know that ultimately they are judged on wins and losses. For Quinn, probably not this year. Probably not next year. But beyond that? He's going to need to worry more about winning games than being a "developmental coach." All this just means that he's going to try to win games, and while I'm sure he will work to develop players to make his team stronger long term, he's still going to do some things in the short term that are "win now" moves (even if we think they're wrong based on our evaluations).

Great post.

The biggest factor for me is the style Quinn eventually will settle down and play in the NHL. If the coach needs the young players, young players will end up making the team. If the coach needs experienced players with emphize on stability and decision making, odds are that kids won't play as much.

So far we have just heard cliches in relation to how Quinn will play this team. Often when a style of a coach is described you get statements that without any single doubt is something that 31 coaches in the NHL would write under on. Like this comment: "hard to play against, fast and physical" he added, "we do like to play an up-style, tempo kind of hockey and we will defend." In what way does that say anything about what style Quinn wants to play? Which coach would say that they want to be soft to play against? Play a low-tempo style? Be slow? We will not defend?

My point is just, its not clear as of now what we will see from Quinn during the coming season or seasons. Its obvious what we will try to do, but the first question is if we can do that and the second question is what we will do if that fails. The most offensive minded coach "with the puck" can be the most defensive minded coach "without the puck". If we are getting shelled every night -- will we dig down and cut the loss or keep the foot on the gas? It remains to be seen.

AND, since the above is not clear, its very hard to speculate on what type of players Quinn will be looking for during the season. Right?

So when I hear talk about a development coach, I only think that will be accomplished by getting a coach that will require players with the attributes kids have as opposed to a coach who plays a style that requires attributes that vets have.

 

[silverfish]

I am surprised that Skjei seems to be paired with McQuaid

Remember when I said this was going to happen right after the trade and you said: "I don't think you're thinking rationally".

 

[DutchShamrock]

Jumping on what tawnos is saying, I have to assume Lias was sent down to work on things in his game that the AHL is more conducive to. Probably assertiveness, confidence with the puck and pushing the play. Maybe the added bonus of stepping into a leadership role. The A will afford Lias some breathing room to work on those areas, less fear of messing up. Chytil and Howden may or may not have been as effective with their play, but have shown some more progress in these areas. A demotion won't necessarily improve the areas they need to work on. Sometimes it's not what you do, but its having the right ideas and confidence in your game.

I won't lie and say it isn't disconcerting to see Staal pushing ADA out, but not even one game has been played. I'm hoping it's a courtesy to let him prove himself, or they are looking for stability after a big turnover on D, they have a plan to platoon defenders 5-8, or they are waiting for a team to shop for D. They've made enough moves to tell me their thinking isn't same old, same old. If we hit November and ADA is a regular scratch while others struggle... I'll grab a pitchfork too.

 

[Leetch3]

This is also why I always laughed when people used the "developmental coach" label. Such a dumb thing. Yeah, maybe he's good at developing players. But, coaches know that ultimately they are judged on wins and losses. For Quinn, probably not this year. Probably not next year. But beyond that? He's going to need to worry more about winning games than being a "developmental coach." All this just means that he's going to try to win games, and while I'm sure he will work to develop players to make his team stronger long term, he's still going to do some things in the short term that are "win now" moves (even if we think they're wrong based on our evaluations).

valid point but hopefully those 2 things go together...hopefully the action taken in years 1 and 2 to develop our young players will result in wins by year 3

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers will take a look at Andersson in a month or so and see where he is at.

Chytil will be an exciting player for the Rangers for a while.

Rob Simpson also asked about Vesey. It’s a big year in Vesey’s career. The Rangers moved out some players and Vesey has more opportunity.

 

[Zynbanejad]

Is our roster set for opening night?

 

[SA16]

I don't think Staal has much if anything to do with DeAngelo they play different positions. It's the McQuaid trade that is the problem. There is absolutely no reason to have acquired a 31 year old bad defenseman who will block ice time from players who could have an important role in the future.

 

[True Blue]

We shouldn't eliminate entirely the possibility of a Hayes or Zuccarello extension.

They'll be dealt if there is nothing like that completed, though, obviously. Could be another draft with 3 first round picks.

Former, yes. Latter, I tend to doubt

 

[RangerBoy]

Tampa winning the Cup will get the Rangers another 1st. They are one of the favorites. They should have won last season. Elliotte Friedman said in the first 31 Thoughts podcast for this season that the Tampa organization was crushed when they lost to the Caps. Up 3-2 in the series and they were shutout in the final two games of the series. They didn’t play well in that series for some reason. That loss really stung.

 

[Avery16]

If we needed bottom six depth (and we don’t) I’d put a claim in on Jaskin. He’ll end up somewhere.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Former, yes. Latter, I tend to doubt

What makes you doubt another potential three 1st round picks?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Tampa winning the Cup will get the Rangers another 1st. They are one of the favorites. They should have won last season. Elliotte Friedman said in the first 31 Thoughts podcast for this season that the Tampa organization was crushed when they lost to the Caps. Up 3-2 in the series and they were shutout in the final two games of the series. They didn’t play well in that series for some reason. That loss really stung.

They didn’t play well because they have a bad coach

 

[Tawnos]

Remember when I said this was going to happen right after the trade and you said: "I don't think you're thinking rationally".

Yes I do, but I was assuming that Skjei would be our 1LD and to me, that currently looks like Smith.

 

[haveandare]

Tampa winning the Cup will get the Rangers another 1st. They are one of the favorites. They should have won last season. Elliotte Friedman said in the first 31 Thoughts podcast for this season that the Tampa organization was crushed when they lost to the Caps. Up 3-2 in the series and they were shutout in the final two games of the series. They didn’t play well in that series for some reason. That loss really stung.

I don't see it happening honestly. They're missing killer instinct. Too many of their players, most notably Stamkos, seem happy to coast around in big moments and then talk about how crushed they are after they lose due to their sleepy performances.

I'd like to them to win for us to get the pick but I don't think they will.

 

[haveandare]

They didn’t play well because they have a bad coach

That's part of it. Cooper isn't forcing Stamkos to accomplish nothing in big games though.

 

[True Blue]

What makes you doubt another potential three 1st round picks?

I meant more for possibility of extending Hayes as opposed to Zucc. I think that the latter will be trade bait.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

That's part of it. Cooper isn't forcing Stamkos to accomplish nothing in big games though.

Sure, but he’s forcing a group of Chris Kunitz, Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan to play against a red hot Ovechkin
Edit: He also just kept riding his young goaltender in his first year of full starting duties after he said himself he was exhausted in March