Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part X — Active Roster in OP (09/28)
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Blue Blooded
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Pionk is playing with Staal, which is mutually exclusive to a position to succeed.
I agree that we have to put our players into positions to succeed, and it's not looking like that's what we're doing at the moment.
Here is a lineup example where our players are actually put into positions to succeed:
Kreider-Zibanejad-Spooner (Spooner put into a position to succeed)
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello (Namestnikov put into a position to succeed)
Buchnevich-Andersson-Fast (Andersson put into a position to succeed)
Gettinger-Holland-Vesey (Gettinger and Holland were good in preseason, Vesey has to go somewhere)
Skjei-DeAngelo (both players put into a position to succeed, they've always played amazingly well together)
Hajek-Shattenkirk (Hajek put into a position to succeed, I think he looked ready for a shot in pre-season)
Smith-Pionk (Pionk put into a position to succeed with easier minutes and a beast of a zone-entry defender as his partner)
Chytil, Howden and Lettieri in the AHL. None of them looked ready for NHL 5v5 play in the pre-season.
Amazing Kreiderman
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If Lias is the 3C behind Chytil and Howden in the AHL this season, I will buy this whole group a drink the next time I am in NY. It's not happening.
JayMan82
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Well said.
There's another factor at play here and that's the Expansion draft. Having one or a couple of players get stashed in order to remain expansion draft ineligible is extremely valuable, especially when you have available slots to take contracts on to help other teams.
Also, I'm all for slower development times. We have seen enough cases of ruined prospects when being rushed and I don't see Andersson being the type that lacks drive and confidence to become an impactful player at the NHL level.
Trust the process here...
Off Sides
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I wrote that prior to reading that Pionk was to be with Staal, so I rescind that.
And I mostly agree with your other points, however I think all three of Lias, Howden and Chytil should have been the top 3 centers in the AHL, where Gettinger and Hajek would also be. I think that puts them all in a position to succeed because if the AHL had all of them, they should be pretty good and on the flip side all the AAAA and "intangible" vets would all be up with the NHL which would allow for plenty of ice time to the AHL guys.
I'd put Smith with Shattenkirk and they'd be the top pair. Skjei with ADA I'd be fine with, and I'd just scratch Staal and play Pionk at RD with either McQuaid or Claesson at LD.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Well, I get the expansion draft logic, but Andersson won't be exempt. Chytil would be if he's in the AHL this year and his contract slides.
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I am more asking, what if Chytil and Howden are eventually demoted?
It is confusing to me, if the two who made the NHL are more ready or have higher ceilings, then how does that change if they are all in the AHL at the same time, and if they are not more ready or do not have higher ceiling then whey did they make the NHL over the one who did not?
Amazing Kreiderman
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Called it. Staal will play 82 games, Vesey will be in the top-6 for weeks after scoring a fluke goal and Buchnevich will be demoted to the 4th line if he doesn't score 3 games in a row. Same shit, different coach. Because some things just aren't AV-issues but NHL-issues.
I think Buchnevich will be safe. Top line and top PP minutes.
Staal playing is so f***ing annoying though. Quinn said that guys will get ice time based on performance so we’ll see how long he stays in.
The fact that he’s playing at all after the exhibition he just had is ridiculous but hopefully it’s about tossing a well respected veteran a bone before he inevitably chokes on it. I’m not going to vilify a rookie coach for not wanting to rock the boat too hard right off the bat but it better be something that happens sooner rather than later.
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The other factor, if neither Chytil or Lias are on the NHL active roster for 40 games worth of days, neither will accrue a NHL season that would count toward UFA status and they'd both still need 7 accrued NHL seasons or to be age 27 on June 30th to reach UFA status post this year. Howden it does not matter as he already will reach age 27 before he can accrue 7 NHL seasons.
JayMan82
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Thank you for the correction. Would Howdens contract slide if we was sent down before 10 games? Based on this information, I would think the most logical approach would be to have Howden enjoy the initial cup of coffee, then send him and Chytil down before the 10 game limit and bring Andersson up.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I’d play four right shots, but coaches tip their hand on lineups with speciality units. If DeAngelo isn’t on the PP, I highly doubt he’ll be playing. I don’t know why journos don’t tweet the speciality units out more often.
E-Train
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No. Howden is 20 and his ELC is now active whether he's in the NHL or AHL.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I don't think Quinn will go all AV on us.
I am sure Gorton is actively trying to move Staal. Can't do that if he doesn't play some games. Better them being preseason games than regular season games (although I am sure he will get some too).
If this was still AV's world, Howden, Chytil and DeAngelo wouldn't be on the main roster (waivers risk be damned), we would have traded for Matt Martin, we would have signed a backup instead of giving Georgiev a shot, etc.
And this last part is in no way directed at you @Go Away Staal because I almost always agree with you...
People complain that we will be too good to get a high draft pick. Then, at the same time, they complain because Staal isn't an NHL defenseman anymore and he is likely going to play a decent amount.
Just saying... You can't have it both ways.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
DeAngelo not playing is worse than Staal playing. There was a rough consensus in the PGT every game he played that he was one of the standout players, if not the outright best player, and his on-ice metrics back it up - yet he is sitting on opening night.
Not seeing the meritocracy here, Dave.
I don't think Quinn will go all AV on us.
I am sure Gorton is actively trying to move Staal. Can't do that if he doesn't play some games. Better them being preseason games than regular season games (although I am sure he will get some too).
If this was still AV's world, Howden, Chytil and DeAngelo wouldn't be on the main roster (waivers risk be damned), we would have traded for Matt Martin, we would have signed a backup instead of giving Georgiev a shot, etc.
And this last part is in no way directed at you @Go Away Staal because I almost always agree with you...
People complain that we will be too good to get a high draft pick. Then, at the same time, they complain because Staal isn't an NHL defenseman anymore and he is likely going to play a decent amount.
I get the last point, but I’d sacrifice a few points in the standings if it means developing a young player that we have right now (Hajek).
Had Hajek not shown so well, I don’t think there would have been an issue.
If this takes care of itself as the season plays out then no harm no foul. I have no idea how Quinn is going to run things so I haven’t jumped all over him.
Also Staal can’t be moved. If he doesn’t have the worst contract in the league, he’s close.
Inferno
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Like I said, I hope it’s just throwing some of the vets a bone.
McQuaid probsbly doesn’t stay healthy so that will fix itself. Unless of course they decide they want to f*** with claesson on his off side.
silverfish
got perma'd
There is no meritocracy. The rebuild is a thin veil. No one should be surprised that a rookie coach is coming in here and leaning on veterans over kids even though he's a 'developmental' coach. I'm not. No one should be. All the narratives are already lined up.
The Rangers are better than expected: "We knew we had the right players and the right coach, we've done everything the way we wanted to, and it worked out"
The Rangers are mediocre: "We're closer than we anticipated, but not quite there yet"
The Rangers are terrible: "Look, we knew this was going to be a long process and not a one-year fix"
The really great thing about announcing that you're going to be bad is that no matter what happens, you're right.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
If you look at it through the lens of “what’s best for the kid’s development?” I think your characterization of the rebuild, or lack of is a bit pessimistic.
Gorts said it would be easy to just throw a bunch of kids out there. They want to develop them. Each kid has their own set of circumstances. They’re doing what they feel is best for each guy.
I don’t think (and maybe I’m just being optimistic here) it has ANYTHING to do w a lack of stomach for a sincere rebuild.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
DeAngelo has a lot more pro experience than Pionk, is a ~1,000% better player and look who is playing? I still don't understand why the organization has decided to try to meme Pionk into the next Brian Leetch while having the approximate on-ice impact of Dan Girardi playing on two injured legs.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Howden's contract doesn't slide because he's 20 years old. A contract can only slide if the player is 18 or 19 years of age at the start of the season UNLESS the contract was signed in the calendar year where the player turned 20 (i.e. Mittelstadt)
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
TBH, I wasn't been able to watch much of pre-season so I will 100% take your word for it regarding Hajek.
If I had to guess, I would say they are going to give Hajek half the season in the AHL to marinade a bit more. By that time, they will know if ADA is going to make it or not and if ADA isn't cutting it, I bet we see him moved and some shuffling occurring in order to get Hajek some playing time.
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Balancing development in accordance with a rebuild.
Players on the last years of their entry levels deal that could maybe become full time NHLers: ADA, Lettieri, Pionk
Vet players no one is going to care about in a year or two or really even now, Staal, McQuaid, McLeod, probably some others.
Players no one will care about in a year or two because they are likely to be off the team if they do not develop this season, ADA, Pionk, Lettieri.
Players who have plenty of years left on the entry levels: Chytil, Lias, Howden, Hajek.
I can fully understand at least trying to turn the last year of their entry level players into NHL this season, giving it a real shot by playing them, maybe even over playing them even if they do not look so great. That should come at the expense of playing the vet players no one will care about in a season or two.
The players who have 3 or possibly even more years left on their entry levels (should they slide), I would fully understand if all of them marinated in the AHL. It would not be like they are stagnating their development, they are long term investments who have time to make the NHL.
What I do not understand, playing the vets no one will care about in a year or two over those who are in their make it or break it, last year of their entry level contracts season. From an asset management point of view, if this rebuild is going to succeed in it maximum efficiency it just does not make any sense to not separate the long term investment from the short term ones, from the it just does not matter past investments.
Players on the last years of their entry levels deal that could maybe become full time NHLers: ADA, Lettieri, Pionk
Vet players no one is going to care about in a year or two or really even now, Staal, McQuaid, McLeod, probably some others.
Players no one will care about in a year or two because they are likely to be off the team if they do not develop this season, ADA, Pionk, Lettieri.
Players who have plenty of years left on the entry levels: Chytil, Lias, Howden, Hajek.
I can fully understand at least trying to turn the last year of their entry level players into NHL this season, giving it a real shot by playing them, maybe even over playing them even if they do not look so great. That should come at the expense of playing the vet players no one will care about in a season or two.
The players who have 3 or possibly even more years left on their entry levels (should they slide), I would fully understand if all of them marinated in the AHL. It would not be like they are stagnating their development, they are long term investments who have time to make the NHL.
What I do not understand, playing the vets no one will care about in a year or two over those who are in their make it or break it, last year of their entry level contracts season. From an asset management point of view, if this rebuild is going to succeed in it maximum efficiency it just does not make any sense to not separate the long term investment from the short term ones, from the it just does not matter past investments.
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