Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[will1066]

It shouldn't be

What compels a coach to scratch a player without explanation to rather dress an injured and heavily compromised Ryan Strome? Might he have rubbed Gallant the wrong way? Speculation, yes, but what occurred wasn't normal.

 

[Machinehead]

The Devils were definitely the better team and were a bad matchup for the Rangers, even still, that series went to Game 7 and was still winnable despite the dogshit performance the Rangers laid out there. The Rangers stole 2 quick ones then sucked ass for 3 straight and then managed to win one even after it looking like it was over - that's not nothing. To me, I think with a little more structure and more of a plan (i.e effectively break the puck out of your own zone, play the matchup game, have puck support through the NZ and into the OZ) the Rangers very easily could've won that series, even with the Devils being a bad matchup and especially after going up 2-0. That's why Gallant was fired.

Just a little bit of pushback on the pervasive mindset on here that the Devils are basically an unbeatable juggernaut. They're good, still a bad matchup and we may lose to them again, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. The better team on paper doesn't always win. There's always slumps, injuries, unexpected things happen. Carolina was a better team than us in 2022 and we won that series. During the Lundqvist years the Rangers beat countless superior opponents in the playoffs. Obviously you don't want to be worse than your opponent but I see a lot of talk about how the Canes and Devils are better than us so what's the point and with this being hockey I just can't go along with that.

Nothing is a foregone conclusion but if we're going to discuss Roster Building, sometimes I wish there was a better understanding that there's a few teams clearly above us and that this is where we're at.

There's this pervasive expectation around the team that I don't get. There's a lot of factors to making a decision on Igor, but the idea that we're in the midst of this huge window of opportunity shouldn't be one of them. We're not one of the favorites.

If we were, I would say f*** 2026 and onward and just win the Cup. We're not in that place.

 

[Machinehead]

The outcome wasn't the outcome that people predicted. Nobody predicted the Rangers would lose because a lack of a will to win. Their whole schtick the entire season was they were really going to put the pedal to the metal once the playoffs started and empty the tank. That's not what we saw games 3-7.

We predicted they would get decisively outplayed and people would blame it on "will to win."

CC: @DanielBrassard

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What compels a coach to scratch a player without explanation to rather dress an injured and heavily compromised Ryan Strome? Might he have rubbed Gallant the wrong way? Speculation, yes, but what occurred wasn't normal.

Said heavily compromised player not being completely honest about his status and the coach wanting a back up option at C incase things went to shit (as they did.)

It's more probable, if not a foregone conclusion that Gallant just made a dumb roster move. Even if you assume that Strome was heavily compromised, I would have rather run with 2 C's and Kakko than Rooney getting any kind of minutes.

 

[Machinehead]

Said heavily compromised player not being completely honest about his status and the coach wanting a back up option at C incase things went to shit (as they did.)

It's more probable, if not a foregone conclusion that Gallant just made a dumb roster move. Even if you assume that Strome was heavily compromised, I would have rather run with 2 C's and Kakko than Rooney getting any kind of minutes.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

We stopped scoring against Tampa and somehow Gallant's response to that was that we needed more jam or whatever the f***.

It's no mystery -- this fanbase does it all the time. In our four losses against the Devils we scored two goals. It couldn't be that the team has legitimate holes, it has to be because we just didn't want to score.

 

[will1066]

We predicted they would get decisively outplayed and people would blame it on "will to win."

CC: @DanielBrassard

Kind of revisionist. There were as many if not more people here predicting a series win (in a long, 7-gamer) as there were those who predicted a series loss. Some people felt confident they were going to neutralize Hughes by pummeling him nonstop. Many thought the Devils were just Hughes followed by an interchangeable flock of seagulls. Other people felt it was a really bad matchup.

 

[haohmaru]

We predicted they would get decisively outplayed and people would blame it on "will to win."

CC: @DanielBrassard

Nah, dude. I've been watching the Rangers, and their playoffs, for nearly 50 years. I never came away with the feeling of utter disgust that I did last year. I've lived through plenty of teams that were outplayed but played hard despite being a markedly worse team.

That's not what we watched last year. We watched a directionless team from the top down that, at the end, really had no idea what to do or where to even place their effort(s) if they chose to make them. The head coach's lack of leadership led to a lack of will.

It was a 50/50 series. Maybe 55/45 and if they had lost a different way I wouldn't have cared. There were clearly a ton of underlying issues that impacted the team's will.

 

[LOFIN]

Said heavily compromised player not being completely honest about his status and the coach wanting a back up option at C incase things went to shit (as they did.)

It's more probable, if not a foregone conclusion that Gallant just made a dumb roster move. Even if you assume that Strome was heavily compromised, I would have rather run with 2 C's and Kakko than Rooney getting any kind of minutes.

I don't really give a f*** about if Kakko was scratched and for what reason. I don't like the fact that Gallant didn't communicate with him at all, gave him no explanation about why he was scratched. It's not like he was that awful, and he wasn't a 4th liner.

 

[MrAlmost]

GET CISED.

Kakko puts the the 24 into 2024 Geometry

I had a feeling lavi would like our younger players, especially Kakko, much more and use them more than Gallant.

Gallant just generally seemed to have no interest in actually coaching these players, whereas Lavi has Kakko on the top line and working him into PP1. He is working with Laf a lot to get him comfortable. He is playing Chytil with Panarin seeing the potential there. Lavi isn't shoehorning Cuylle into the 4th line just cause he is young and considered "tough".

This is a real coaching staff. They are actually developing players and have a goal in mind with their lines. I actually think the Cuylle-Tro-Wheeler line will be quite good.

I hope it lasts, but there is a real difference in the reports around the team, the interviews and the videos seen. And I think the team got better as preseason went along.

I don't understand why some of you guys are always so down to start the year. This could be a very exciting one.

 

[Ruggs225]

View attachment 750650

Picks 6-15 are only marginally better than the rest of the first round. Top 5 is where the cutoff is (I would argue buoyed by top 2, maybe 3) and we took who we had to with our top 2 picks.

You assuming that we should hit on a pick because it was 7th or 9th is the same thing the Rangers did.

First your chart shows only making the nhl. Not becoming a star or HOF, which is more relevant.

Second 6-15 are lunpred together. I would assume 6-10 are better than 11-15. By virtue of picking earlier.

Third. I never assumed that we should hit on a pick. I said good teams DO hit on those picks far more than miss.

If we went 2/2 on laff and kakko becoming all stars we are not having this conversation. Similarly if hughes and hirshc sucked the devils would still be terrible and if or hedman and stamkos sucked those teams would not have won.

My entire point is that we are in this situation bc we went 0/4 in the top 10 and 0/2 in top 2 so far.

It’s s not because we “rushed” the rebuild . Its bc our picks did not pan out. Though i still have hope for kakko and laf. And weirdly enough if they do become stars than we are right there at the top of the pack.

It would almost be like you have to have stars when you pick top 5 to succeed. How odd is that?

 

[Machinehead]

Kind of revisionist. There were as many if not more people here predicting a series win (in a long, 7-gamer) as there were those who predicted a series loss. Some people felt confident they were going to neutralize Hughes by pummeling him nonstop. Other people felt it was a really bad matchip.

Yes, and some of those people were correct. They'll probably be correct this year about largely the same roster.

Nah, dude. I've been watching the Rangers, and their playoffs, for nearly 50 years. I never came away with the feeling of utter disgust that I did last year. I've lived through plenty of teams that were outplayed but played hard despite being a markedly worse team.

That's not what we watched last year. We watched a directionless team from the top down that, at the end, really had no idea what to do or where to even place their effort(s) if they chose to make them. The head coach's lack of leadership led to a lack of will.

It was a 50/50 series. Maybe 55/45 and if they had lost a different way I wouldn't have cared. There were clearly a ton of underlying issues that impact the team's will.

Sometimes teams come out flat.

We were hearing complaints about the "will" and "effort" all year. If you have to sit there and make that excuse the entire season, at what point do you consider that it's just a middle of the pack team?

The idea that they looked mediocre in the regular season because they were saving it was a massive cope that people sold to themselves and bought from themselves. The team looked mediocre most of last year because they're mediocre.

This is their last chance. Laviolette is this group's third coach and he's a bit of a hardass. When the same results happen, we're going to have to accept that the roster is just an also-ran roster.

 

[will1066]

Said heavily compromised player not being completely honest about his status and the coach wanting a back up option at C incase things went to shit (as they did.)

It's more probable, if not a foregone conclusion that Gallant just made a dumb roster move. Even if you assume that Strome was heavily compromised, I would have rather run with 2 C's and Kakko than Rooney getting any kind of minutes.

I didn't agree with the move. I thought it was insane to go Strome over Kakko. I wouldn't think Gallant was an idiot even with his methods of madness. He had to have known Strome was banged up even if Strome did say he was able to go. The fact that he didn't feel good about putting Kakko in the lineup even under those circumstances makes you wonder.

 

[mas0764]

This is disingenuous. The entire freaking defense is bc of the rebuild, not just fox.

Forwards a a different story, but that is bc our drafting sucked. But we do have some kids getting close to breaking in with Othmann being the top option. Plus Cuylle.

We tried a revuild. We had 7 first round picks in 3 years. We had a #1 and #2 overall, something that some rebuilding teams never get like Detroit.

Its just that our 4 top 10 picks didnt pan put like we wanted too. It really is as easy as that.

If laff and kakko played pike a #1 or #2 overall than we might have won a cup in the last two years.

We never would have needed to go through a 5-10 year rebuild if our great draft capital actually panned out.

We actually went about the rebuild the right way. We skipped most of the mediocrity part at the end of the las cup window and tore it down and got a ton of assets. We had a good amount of high picks. We had solid vet support.

We shit the bed drafting. End of story.

You have to stay in a rebuild until you have dominant long term forward talent.

you can miss on top10 picks, everyone does. you can't miss on ALL of your top 10 picks. As of right now, none of them are perfoming upto their draft status.

I still have hope for Kakko and even Laffy.... just taking a lot longer than expected.

Kravtsov turned into Cuylle, so that was somewhat salvaged.

Andersson turned into Cuylle.

Still stings that a top 7 pick turns into a bottom 6 scrappy player who won't ever drive offense.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't understand why some of you guys are always so down to start the year. This could be a very exciting one.

To answer this question, I didn't think the team was that good all of last year.

We're about to find out if it was just the coach. I know it's preseason but the preseason games looked like an encore presentation of the Devils series.

At a certain point, you are what the results say you are and you make a determination as far as who from that roster you want to move forward with.

That's why I'm hesitant to chain ourselves to anyone like we already did with Zibanejad. That contract is going to be hell.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Today’s Media Availability:

 

[bhamill]

yeah but you can't rely on middle of the road goalies playing well in the playoffs either, that's my point

The odds are MUCH higher that an elite level goalie will have an elite level playoff run than that a middling goalie will. Nope you don't NEED an elite GOALIE to win, but your odds will certainly be much better of getting that elite PERFORMANCE needed to win than you will with a goalie who is "okay."

 

[Machinehead]

I still have a lot of hope for Zibanejad being an effective player but they really need to utilize him differently.

Gallant used him like a shutdown god. He sucks at it. Top centers eat him alive and it gets worse in a series where you get more and more exposure.

If you don't have a matchup center then just go by committee and at least use Zibanejad in a situation where he might score.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still have a lot of hope for Zibanejad being an effective player but they really need to utilize him differently.

Gallant used him like a shutdown god. He sucks at it. Top centers eat him alive and it gets worse in a series where you get more and more exposure.

If you don't have a matchup center then just go by committee and at least use Zibanejad in a situation where he might score

I think it could have worked if they stuck with Kakko on the RW but I'm kind of in agreement with this.

Its partially the reason why I want Kreider-Trochek-Kakko to be a thing. They can function as a
"matchup" line that is top 6 quality and has more of a possession element to it.

Things would have been alot easier of Panarin-Zibanejad worked at all but it's always been oil and water.

 

[CLW]

What compels a coach to scratch a player without explanation to rather dress an injured and heavily compromised Ryan Strome? Might he have rubbed Gallant the wrong way? Speculation, yes, but what occurred wasn't normal.

It's clear a lot of players (including Laf) didn't see eye to eye with GG.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I still have a lot of hope for Zibanejad being an effective player but they really need to utilize him differently.

Gallant used him like a shutdown god. He sucks at it. Top centers eat him alive and it gets worse in a series where you get more and more exposure.

If you don't have a matchup center then just go by committee and at least use Zibanejad in a situation where he might score.

Trochek should be the matchup center, full stop.

Zibanejad shouldn't sniff the penalty skill at all but three coaches are hell bent on it for some reason. I'm going to freak the f*** out when he gets injured blocking a shot.

Kreider
Goodrow
Bonino
Vesey
Trochek
Kakko

Those should be your PK forwards.

 

[Machinehead]

I think it could have worked if they stuck with Kakko on the RW but I'm kind of in agreement with this.

Its partially the reason why I want Kreider-Trochek-Kakko to be a thing. They can function as a
"matchup" line that is top 6 quality and has more of a possession element to it.

Things would have been alot easier of Panarin-Zibanejad worked at all but it's always been oil and water.

Panarin doesn't work with anybody because he does things the rest of the roster doesn't excel at and he refuses to adjust.

Nobody has the hands or speed to make the cross-ice shit work and he doesn't go right at defenders anymore.

 

[Machinehead]

Trochek should be the matchup center, full stop.

Zibanejad shouldn't sniff the penalty skill at all but three coaches are hell bent on it for some reason. I'm going to freak the f*** out when he gets injured blocking a shot.

Kreider
Goodrow
Bonino
Vesey
Trochek
Kakko

Those should be your PK forwards.

Yeah, that's another thing. He doesn't need to penalty kill. He's not even good at it - that's another cope.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trochek should be the matchup center, full stop.

Zibanejad shouldn't sniff the penalty skill at all but three coaches are hell bent on it for some reason. I'm going to freak the f*** out when he gets injured blocking a shot.

Kreider
Goodrow
Bonino
Vesey
Trochek
Kakko

Those should be your PK forwards.

The injury risk isn't why he shouldn't do it.

He shouldn't do it because he isn't good at it. Ditto Fox.

The PK D should really be Miller-Trouba and Lindgren-Schneider. Lindgren is really the only good PK D that we have but Fox's numbers on the PK are less than good, and thats WITH Lindgren as a partner who has by far the best PK metrics of all the D.

 

[Machinehead]

If we played Fox on the PK less we could play him at even strength more and avoid some of these other idiots.

 

[haohmaru]

Andersson turned into Cuylle.

Still stings that a top 7 pick turns into a bottom 6 scrappy player who won't ever drive offense.

He's not even that. He's an AHL'er.