Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[Machinehead]

I take it back...I do like the Kreider Tro Vesey combo as well. My problem is I'm unsure what to do with Zib. I know the points are coming lately, but he's still a giant enigma.

Here's the thing: whatever line he's on is going is going to break even 5v5 because that's what he is. Cuylle and Wheeler are fine. They're just fine. I think there's some goals there with Zibanejad and Wheeler, and then there's the powerplay, and at the end of the day, it's fine.

I put him with players who are fine because I think that's his wheelhouse. Zibanejad is not so bad that he needs more than fine players to carry him, but I do think he's at the point where he's neutering the 5v5 cheat code Kreider always was.

So I kind of just put all the guys together who are just fine.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Here's the thing: whatever line he's on is going is going to break even 5v5 because that's what he is. Cuylle and Wheeler are fine. They're just fine. I think there's some goals there with Zibanejad and Wheeler, and then there's the powerplay, and at the end of the day, it's fine.

I put him with players who are fine because I think that's his wheelhouse. Zibanejad is not so bad that he needs more than fine players to carry him, but I do think he's at the point where he's neutering the 5v5 cheat code Kreider always was.

So I kind of just put all the guys together who are just fine.

Won’t happen but I would like to see your line combos play out over a long stretch. Would be nice to have another line that can at least maintain possession down low and cycle other than the Panarin line which we don’t have outside of the occasional fourth line shift.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider and Fox are slowly starting to, you know, Kreider and Fox.

82 games is a long time. The cream always rises.

 

[McRanger92]

I love Vesey but if he’s shown anything in his career it’s that he loses his effectiveness in a top 6 role. Once they get Chytil back that line with Jimmy and Goodrow will look even better

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I cant see how anyone can watch vesey play and think "oh he deserves a shot in the top 9".
Dude is a very good 4th line defensive minded player who might occasionally chip a goal. Beyond that? He's a slightly better version of goodrow, and we've seen that play out over and over again.

Maybe the most cheeks take I’ve seen on here

I love Vesey but if he’s shown anything in his career it’s that he loses his effectiveness in a top 6 role. Once they get Chytil back that line with Jimmy and Goodrow will look even better

He was really good with Zib/Kreider last season in terms of actual GF/GA and differentials

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I love Vesey but if he’s shown anything in his career it’s that he loses his effectiveness in a top 6 role. Once they get Chytil back that line with Jimmy and Goodrow will look even better

Vesey should be on the 3rd line right now with Cuylle if it was based on merit, but I'm of the opinion the coach wants to build chemistry on the 4th line for players who will likely play together in playoffs when we're healthy

 

[McRanger92]

Maybe the most cheeks take I’ve seen on here


He was really good with Zib/Kreider last season in terms of actual GF/GA and differentials

I see no reason to swap Wheeler and Vesey when both their current lines are playing well

 

[effen]

Either the league caught up to Fox and knows he's just not shifty enough to handle pressure or he's hurt still and is missing that half step that made guys give him space.

Either way somethings gotta give. Hasn't been himself for a while now and is playing very safe in the o zone, getting angled off and skating to the boards more often than is advisable.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Vesey is elite as a 4th liner, very good as a third liner, below average as a second liner, and weak as a top liner.

What makes him dangerous is he can actually protect and carry the puck at the same time (on RW), and has a decent release from the circles in. All of these are not typically skills found in bottom 6 players, and they're why Vesey was highly touted coming into the league. He's also a good skater who because he uses a long stick/low lie, is good at poke checks and solid overall defensively, and can use his speed to play like an energy player when the situation calls for it.

What he isn't good at is moving without the puck in the offensive zone to get open in scoring areas, one timing pucks, quick turns/pivots/deception, and playmaking.

He's miles (not "slightly") better than Goodrow.

Hence the assessment in the first sentence above.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

If this team would stop the excess lazy stick checking, and letting people skate through the neutral zone into our zone like NAFTA they would have more "grit"

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone by the way!

 

[Profet]

You know who I would love on this team as a rental.. if only he played RW...

Guentzel.

If he's comfortable on the right side, that's my target.

 

[egelband]

He plays winning hockey and actually produces for a 4th liner in playoffs. Id prefer hathaway but doubt philly would eat 50% for rest of 2023-2024 and all of 2024-2025

Would love Maroon on this team.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Would love Maroon on this team.

We complain about how slow our players are constantly, and we want to add someone slower?
He's not a bad hockey player, but he's also not a net positive.

 

[egelband]

Imagine if people here were forced to watch a bad team.

They'd just give up on hockey altogether.

Nope. They’d have even more to complain about. Yay!

We complain about how slow our players are constantly, and we want to add someone slower?
He's not a bad hockey player, but he's also not a net positive.

I don’t complain about speed. He may not be a speed skater but he plays fast. Always around the puck. That’s what I like.

 

[egelband]

You know who I would love on this team as a rental.. if only he played RW...

Guentzel.

If he's comfortable on the right side, that's my target.

That’s a Larmer type acquisition, would be amazing. Just can’t imagine it happening for a few reasons which I’m sure you know.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If this team would stop the excess lazy stick checking, and letting people skate through the neutral zone into our zone like NAFTA they would have more "grit"

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone by the way!

LOL when I was coaching youth hockey I would say during practice, "you reach I teach". For some reason it cracked the kids up every time but they remembered it and started moving their feet /body instead of lazily reaching with their sticks.

 

[Machinehead]

I see no reason to swap Wheeler and Vesey when both their current lines are playing well

The 4th line isn't playing well. It's slightly surpassing expectations when the bar was in the ground.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We complain about how slow our players are constantly, and we want to add someone slower?
He's not a bad hockey player, but he's also not a net positive.

Maroon was a legit factor for TB especially in their playoff runs but I don't know if he has enough left at 35.

 

[effen]

If this team would stop the excess lazy stick checking, and letting people skate through the neutral zone into our zone like NAFTA they would have more "grit"

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone by the way!

Yes the expressway the neutral zone has become the last few games is from 4!!! Defenders backing in to the top of the circles.

1-3-1 is only effective if they're not gigantic cowards and actually impede people in the NZ instead of waving them through.

That's the grit problem that's for some reason mocked like it's not an enormous problem they slip into shit like that.

 

[Synergy27]

Here's a thought.

Last night, Cuylle rocks a guy, gets in a fight, wins the fight, and draws three penalties. If there's effective, actionable grit, that has to be it, right? That has to be the best example of it.

We didn't score on that powerplay but Cuylle doesn't control that. And this is nothing against Cuylle. Good for him. I was highly entertained by it if nothing else.

People say grit can be a thing but it has to be good. Is Cuylle not good? He's not Connor McDavid but he's an NHL player who can take shifts in the top 9.

So we had an incident last night where a player (who is a good player) acquired to be physical was physical, we won in the fight, we won in the penalty box, and the Garden went crazy. It's the perfect storm of everything people want from "grit."

And here's the thing: none of it stopped us from playing absolute dog shit the remainder of the game.

And here's the other thing: that happens and Brooks still whines about it the next day. It's dogma, not planning.

Cuylle is exactly what people should mean when they suggest adding grit. He’s exactly the kind of player we should be trying to fill out the bottom six with. Exactly. Exactly.

 

[NYR Viper]

I could get behind an addition that pushes Cuylle to the 4th line to start the playoffs.

Cuylle-_____-Vesey

Go get a forward who plays with pace and some physical play that has some size and that’s the group.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Wheeler
Panarin-Trochek-Lafreniere
______-Chytil-Kakko
Cuylle-Goodrow-Vesey
Pitlick
Bonino

Although I could be convinced to push Cuylle up and bring up Edstrom for 10 games to see what’s there.

 

[Profet]

I could get behind an addition that pushes Cuylle to the 4th line to start the playoffs.

Cuylle-_____-Vesey

Go get a forward who plays with pace and some physical play that has some size and that’s the group.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Wheeler
Panarin-Trochek-Lafreniere
______-Chytil-Kakko
Cuylle-Goodrow-Vesey
Pitlick
Bonino

Although I could be convinced to push Cuylle up and bring up Edstrom for 10 games to see what’s there.

If this team goes into the playoffs with Wheeler in the top 6, Drury has failed.

 

[NYR Viper]

If this team goes into the playoffs with Wheeler in the top 6, Drury has failed.

I see Wheeler as a compliment to the other two. I don’t see a way around it with the cap. I’m also less concerned with who is, on paper, in the top-6 when the top-9 should get about the same ES time.

 

[huerter]

Happy holidays. Stop line numbering.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Zibanejad 5v5 sh% and other numbersby month:

Oct: 0.00% on 7.85 shots/60. 3.85 on ice sh%. 61 xG%
Nov: 10.0% on 7.52 shots/60 11.11 on ice sh% 47 xG%
Dec: 27.3% on 5.3 shots/60 13.64 on ice sh% 41 xG%

There's your difference. When the shots don't go in apparently he's playing bad and when they do he's playing good. Like clockwork.

Yes that’s normally how it works when you counted on for offense.