Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[kovazub94]

I don't recall anyone saying that Zib was a bad player, just that he was playing poorly and needed to be better. Was that not true?

Nope. Go back and check what was said if you wish.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Zibanejad 5v5 sh% and other numbersby month:

Oct: 0.00% on 7.85 shots/60. 3.85 on ice sh%. 61 xG%
Nov: 10.0% on 7.52 shots/60 11.11 on ice sh% 47 xG%
Dec: 27.3% on 5.3 shots/60 13.64 on ice sh% 41 xG%

There's your difference. When the shots don't go in apparently he's playing bad and when they do he's playing good. Like clockwork.

Kreider/Zib are generating more offense with Wheeler than Kakko so the decrease in shots for zib is a bit interesting. They’re giving up twice as much offense though so I still wouldn’t think twice about putting Kakko back there (although my first choice is still Vesey)

 

[kovazub94]

So taking a look at the standings it looks like probably 10 teams in the NHL (5 in each conference are pretty much given to make playoffs). That’s just under 2/3. The remaining spots are for grabs so let’s say teams in the playoffs spots now are even money to make it or not. That means that close to 80% of the playoff spots are locked.

 

[Machinehead]

I would love to know where this myth every year that this team needs TUFFNESS comes from...and when they bring them in,its guys who suck like Reaves,Glass,etc etc.You would think these players skate around with purses draped over their shoulders and run away at the 1st sign of trouble

We're inconsistent (because you know,
we have flaws) and people think we can fix inconsistency by just wanting to play harder.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

We're inconsistent (because you know,
we have flaws) and people think we can fix inconsistency by just wanting to play harder.

How did it become so widely accepted that sports are just a battle of will and physical aggression. I’m tired of Brooks and other media personalities just exploiting this viewpoint that most people hold just because they know it will resonate and get attention

 

[Savant]

Brooks penned a piece today suggesting the NYR need more physicality and grit come the Big Dance. I agree, but the guy they acquire needs to come in the Barbashev/Copp mold. However, when you look at the roster IF fully healthy, and taking into account the chemistry between 20-93-17 starting to take shape, and the Panarin line, where do you slide the forward upgrade? Kakko will return, and the Rangers are optimistic Chytil will too. So where are you adding him?

They only need more grit if the grit is good

Only forward upgrade spot (if Wheeler can stick with 20/93) is Chytil’s spot. If you can get a center/left wing kind of utility guy so you don’t have to play Bonino/Brodz in top 9, that’s a win. I think they definitely need a contingency plan for Chytil, but you have to have somewhere to put that player if Fil can go.

Honestly I would just be trying to upgrade the defense first. They need another puck mover back there desperately.

So taking a look at the standings it looks like probably 10 teams in the NHL (5 in each conference are pretty much given to make playoffs). That’s just under 2/3. The remaining spots are for grabs so let’s say teams in the playoffs spots now are even money to make it or not. That means that close to 80% of the playoff spots are locked.

I think they way I would look at this is there are four teams in the toilet.

ANA, CHI, OTT & SJ. You can probably put the BJs in there but they are in division

Those are the teams we can try to pick the bones of. Might be slim pickings but NHL with the late deadline will have the other teams lying to themselves.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I agree with the first part of the bolded, but to blame Lindgren for Fox's poor/average play is one step too far. I've been vocal about breaking up their bromance for well over 2 years, but if you think Lindgren is the sole reason Fox isn't playing well, maybe Fox isn't as good as we like to think he is on this board.

Truth is, Fox hasn't been himself since the calendar turned 2023. I dunno if it's nagging injuries, or the league started to figure out his tendencies, but something is off. With that said, I am all in favor of upgrading at 1LD simply because it helps the team & it would benefit Fox to play with a better partner.

No, I don't think that Lindgren is the sole reason for Fox's play declining, a lot of that is on Fox himself as you correctly state. But whereas Lindgren used to complement Fox by playing Beukeboom to his Leetch, I don't see that happening anymore. I see a guy who's trying to play a two-way puck moving style, but isn't very good at it, leaving Fox to also play a two-way puck moving style that requires him to play defensively more often, rather than an offensive style where he's more of a support player on defense vs. carrying an equal load.

What I do think is that in the new system Lindgren has been much more eager to join the rush or activate down the boards, for no real benefit. This causes Fox to have to stay at the blueline rather than join the rush, which negates some of his skillset. Lindgren also gets trapped down low much more often than he used to when he played more of a stay-at-home style which means Fox back defending, if we're lucky, with a forward, or if we're unlucky, against an oddman situation.

Lindgren becoming far less physical, less tough in the corners, and winning 1-on-1s at a lower rate than when he was much better at them, means Fox must play in his D-zone more along the wall competing for pucks or trying to clear the front of the net, which were never his strong suit.

I'm concerned about Fox's mobility/speed more than anything else in his game - yes he's agile and deceptive, but his skating, never his strong suit, has gotten a little worse as he used to always be a trailer option off the rush, and now seems to be the last man in the zone lately. Blind speculation on my part but I'd venture the two injuries (last year and this year) definitely did something, and hope he can get back to where he was. I'm fairly convinced that this year's injury in the Aho collision was a severe knee contusion. I do think that Fox has had to focus more on his defensive game the last 12 months, though, and that with a stronger partner that may not be the case. Not sure if that's K'Andre though, or someone else entirely.

 

[Machinehead]

Here's a thought.

Last night, Cuylle rocks a guy, gets in a fight, wins the fight, and draws three penalties. If there's effective, actionable grit, that has to be it, right? That has to be the best example of it.

We didn't score on that powerplay but Cuylle doesn't control that. And this is nothing against Cuylle. Good for him. I was highly entertained by it if nothing else.

People say grit can be a thing but it has to be good. Is Cuylle not good? He's not Connor McDavid but he's an NHL player who can take shifts in the top 9.

So we had an incident last night where a player (who is a good player) acquired to be physical was physical, we won in the fight, we won in the penalty box, and the Garden went crazy. It's the perfect storm of everything people want from "grit."

And here's the thing: none of it stopped us from playing absolute dog shit the remainder of the game.

And here's the other thing: that happens and Brooks still whines about it the next day. It's dogma, not planning.

 

[huerter]

Maybe Detroit just stinks? Maybe its not his fault and the guy is actually keeping them in games with his production?

Just saying i was told he is cooked, but production (facts) would say otherwise

points schmoints (no sarcasm)

 

[Machinehead]

What the Rangers could use, and you could call it "grit" if you want to, is a good defender who can forecheck and take care of the puck.

We have him already. His name is Jimmy.

Vesey is the x-factor player everyone imagines getting at the deadline.

We waste him with Shitlick and Badrow. We did the same thing last year, except it was Tyler Fartte.

The line is relatively ok because Jimmy Lemieux is on it, and the Rangers do my least favorite thing that they always do. They say to themselves "this is mediocre instead of literal AIDS; let's never break it up and never try anything else." Basically every line and pair we have is that.

If you want the mythical "thing" we talk about at the deadline, however you want to conceptualize it, just play Vesey.

 

[Avery16]

This belongs here...

OT: - HFNYR Official Foodie Thread including Craft Beer, Wine & Liquor

Since pizza talk keeps creeping into most of our hockey discussions & it's usually my fault, it's about time we have a dedicated place to talk about pizza & whatever else excites your palate. I know we had an Iron Chef thread, but let's make this one open to all cuisines that are either great...

forums.hfboards.com

No pork for you!

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Nope. Go back and check what was said if you wish.

This. A lot of with Mika is and always has been between the ears.

The issue most fans took with his slow start was that he was doing things that wasn't working. Bombing low percentage one timers in coverage on the PP from the circle and missing the net far side (puck out of O-zone every time), but he'd get a two on one with Kreider in the slot against an .880SVPCT goalie and instead of ripping his 40 goal shot, would try some lame pass to Kreider at the goal mouth with his stick lifted and turn the puck over. And that someone who was doing that needed to be taken off PP1 and given less ES ice time in blowout losses (benched) when things were looking unwinnable to send a message that this was unacceptable, could entirely be fixed in his on-ice decision making, and then next game get thrown right back out there on PP1 and the top line to see if the message got through. This is the timeless way that benching stars has always worked and coaches have always done it. Think Scotty Bowman never sat Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, or Larry Murphy when they were having a bad stretch? But the key is those guys were always thrown right back out there the next day, which is all we wanted when Mika was struggling. Game's out of hand, sit him, send a message, tell him you need him to shoot more, next game, right back to PP1 and top line.

He's playing a lot better lately, but there's a lot of us who look at his overall game and recognize that with his skating/stickhandling ability, shot, and playmaking abilities, in today's modern offensive league, this is a guy that could easily bury 40-45 goals a year, score 100-110 points, and if he really puts it all together, make a serious run at potting 50. Obviously it's unlikely that happens this year, but whenever he isn't playing at that level, it's usually based on his on-ice decision making and not on his actual abilities. Remember his 2019-20? Imagine him playing at that pace for a full 82 game season.

How many goals do you think he'd have if he took more high danger shots from the high slot, or tried to pass off pads, instead of always stickhandling more to try and pass for the perfect tap-in goal?

No one who advocated for benching him a month ago wanted him put in the doghouse. They wanted a brief message sent so he'd realize the problem was between the ears and pick it up. I'm sure the coaching staff talked to him, and he's starting to get it together, but even last night with 3 points, he also passed up two great scoring chances from the slot. He could've had 5 points potentially. Obviously that's not a criticism as anyone would gladly take a 3 point night, but there's a whole other level to his game that could potentially be tapped and a lot of us see it and want him to consistently unlock it instead of viewing his 40 goal shot as always deferential to Kreider because he likes setting his buddy up, or only having the confidence to use his shot in familiar situations instead of high percentage ones that develop quickly where the X's and O's aren't as drawn up and clear.

 

[Raspewtin]

trouba is as gritty as you could get for a dman but still sucks dog ass at defending. if you want someone crashing the net; harder in the boards, stiffer defensively then sure i buy that. but those are skills unto themselves and are not inherently part of a gritty package.

vesey is great at getting to the slot and going to the net but you wouldn't associate him with grit really.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey
Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Cuylle-Zibanejad-Wheeler

This is the correct answer. Thanks for coming out, everyone.

Kakko is on my 4th line and I'm done caring about how that affects him.

 

[haohmaru]

10 games, 10 points. 7 points ES. Not looking over cooked eh Patrick Kane.

The only way he was coming back here was on an 800K contract. That's it.

 

[huerter]

This. A lot of with Mika is and always has been between the ears.

The issue most fans took with his slow start was that he was doing things that wasn't working. Bombing low percentage one timers in coverage on the PP from the circle and missing the net far side (puck out of O-zone every time), but he'd get a two on one with Kreider in the slot against an .880SVPCT goalie and instead of ripping his 40 goal shot, would try some lame pass to Kreider at the goal mouth with his stick lifted and turn the puck over. And that someone who was doing that needed to be taken off PP1 and given less ES ice time in blowout losses (benched) when things were looking unwinnable to send a message that this was unacceptable, could entirely be fixed in his on-ice decision making, and then next game get thrown right back out there on PP1 and the top line to see if the message got through. This is the timeless way that benching stars has always worked and coaches have always done it. Think Scotty Bowman never sat Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, or Larry Murphy when they were having a bad stretch? But the key is those guys were always thrown right back out there the next day, which is all we wanted when Mika was struggling. Game's out of hand, sit him, send a message, tell him you need him to shoot more, next game, right back to PP1 and top line.

He's playing a lot better lately, but there's a lot of us who look at his overall game and recognize that with his skating/stickhandling ability, shot, and playmaking abilities, in today's modern offensive league, this is a guy that could easily bury 40-45 goals a year, score 100-110 points, and if he really puts it all together, make a serious run at potting 50. Obviously it's unlikely that happens this year, but whenever he isn't playing at that level, it's usually based on his on-ice decision making and not on his actual abilities. Remember his 2019-20? Imagine him playing at that pace for a full 82 game season.

How many goals do you think he'd have if he took more high danger shots from the high slot, or tried to pass off pads, instead of always stickhandling more to try and pass for the perfect tap-in goal?

No one who advocated for benching him a month ago wanted him put in the doghouse. They wanted a brief message sent so he'd realize the problem was between the ears and pick it up. I'm sure the coaching staff talked to him, and he's starting to get it together, but even last night with 3 points, he also passed up two great scoring chances from the slot. He could've had 5 points potentially. Obviously that's not a criticism as anyone would gladly take a 3 point night, but there's a whole other level to his game that could potentially be tapped and a lot of us see it and want him to consistently unlock it instead of viewing his 40 goal shot as always deferential to Kreider because he likes setting his buddy up, or only having the confidence to use his shot in familiar situations instead of high percentage ones that develop quickly where the X's and O's aren't as drawn up and clear.

Tell us you don't get the new meta without saying you don't get the new meta.

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey
Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Cuylle-Zibanejad-Wheeler

This is the correct answer. Thanks for coming out, everyone.

Kakko is on my 4th line and I'm done caring about how that affects him.

Your template sux.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey
Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Cuylle-Zibanejad-Wheeler

This is the correct answer. Thanks for coming out, everyone.

Kakko is on my 4th line and I'm done caring about how that affects him.

I cant see how anyone can watch vesey play and think "oh he deserves a shot in the top 9".
Dude is a very good 4th line defensive minded player who might occasionally chip a goal. Beyond that? He's a slightly better version of goodrow, and we've seen that play out over and over again.

 

[Boris Zubov]

No pork for you!

View attachment 789943

It was an invite, not an admonishment. I wanted you to join us in the thread...

 

[RangersFan1994]

trouba is as gritty as you could get for a dman but still sucks dog ass at defending. if you want someone crashing the net; harder in the boards, stiffer defensively then sure i buy that. but those are skills unto themselves and are not inherently part of a gritty package.

vesey is great at getting to the slot and going to the net but you wouldn't associate him with grit really.

Vesey has some grit, he does drop the gloves at times, plays physical at times and plays with an edge. He’s not aggressive like a Bennett or Domi but he does have some grit to hiim. He doesn’t shy away and play soft like some NHL players.

 

[Machinehead]

I cant see how anyone can watch vesey play and think "oh he deserves a shot in the top 9".
Dude is a very good 4th line defensive minded player who might occasionally chip a goal. Beyond that? He's a slightly better version of goodrow, and we've seen that play out over and over again.

He's on pace for 19 even strength goals playing 12 minutes a game. Not only is he good at all the bottom six things, but he's objectively scoring at a top six pace.

He's a slightly better version of Goodrow in the same way winning the lottery and f***ing supermodels is a slightly better version of dying.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey
Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Cuylle-Zibanejad-Wheeler

This is the correct answer. Thanks for coming out, everyone.

Kakko is on my 4th line and I'm done caring about how that affects him.

The like I gave you was for the Kakko comment. I'm not a huge fan of those line combos, other than your 2nd line. Even if I do like splitting up Kreider & Zib.

 

[Machinehead]

The like I gave you was for the Kakko comment. I'm not a huge fan of those line combos, other than your 2nd line.

Two of these are proven to be excellent lines, although the first one was in a small sample. The third line is what was left, although I actually like the chemistry between Wheeler and Zibanejad, and Cuylle does things they don't do.

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey would be a top 5 ES line in the NHL. It doesn't look sexy, but the puck would never leave the opposition end. I give you my word on that.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Two of these are proven to be excellent lines, although the first one was in a small sample. The third line is what was left, although I actually like the chemistry between Wheeler and Zibanejad, and Cuylle does things they don't do.

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey would be a top 5 ES line in the NHL. It doesn't look sexy, but the puck would never leave the opposition end. I give you my word on that.

I take it back...I do like the Kreider Tro Vesey combo as well. My problem is I'm unsure what to do with Zib. I know the points are coming lately, but he's still a giant enigma.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The only way he was coming back here was on an 800K contract. That's it.

Not even....by the time he was ready to sign, we didn't even have that much left.

 

[Blue Blooded]

The Rangers aren't a soft team. EVERY fanbase complains that their team is too soft. Have you read opponents' PGTs after we've beaten them? They say their own team is too soft and use the Rangers as an example of a team built the right way with grit.