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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Now with less frenzy!

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IMO the team the Rangers should be looking at is BUF. They have 3 1sts next year already... and have 3 reliable defenseman (including Dahlin), and are a couple of forwards short from being 12 deep.

The ROR deal was a good one for them IMO, not because they gave up the best player in the deal, but because they acquired depth.

If BUF is within striking distance of a playoff spot... Zucc to Buff for a SJ/STL 2019 1st & change would be a good deal. Not sure how much pressure the GM is apt to feel, but they have an ownership group that has pressed their hockey ops into trades. Those are usually the fleece-job opportunities.
 
Machinehead said:
Now, yes. You're probably right.

In a few years, acquiring elite talent could be the difference between a Cup and being right back where we were.

If it gets to the point where Karlsson/Panarin are old before they make a difference, we ****ed up the rebuild anyway.

This isn't like signing veterans to go for it. Signing a Karlsson or Panarin is a move for the next decade.
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This so called rebuild is f***ed up before it even started.
Signing these 2 players isn't going to accomplish anything until the kids are ready to compete.
Once they are ready, they're still far from an elite supporting cast.

Man are you people going to be in for a rude awakening after this team is assembled lol
 
Mikos87 said:
CGY doesn't view Hamonic as a salary dump. IMO the team that Hayes is a great fit for is COL. COL has done a nice job of building their prospect pipeline (Duchene deal lol) that they have the currency to pull it off and re-sign him. But... the big but that might sting a bit, is to take on Soderberg... who will have 1 year left next year.

If you facilitate an opportunity for them to re-sign Hayes, then you can ask for a chips in a trade, but I don't see COL paying a premium for Hayes, but just a good fit for the player.

IMO a good deal with CGY would be Vesey for Bennett if the latter doesn't show any improvement. It's a good pick up for the Rangers in the hopes that Bennett is a better fit in the East, and CGY gets a player with size that will score more goals, but plays the same type of minutes as Bennett.

On the Rangers Bennett becomes a cheaper version with Names with some upside. You just don't see a multiplayer deal that involves a few "cap dumps". It's cutting your nose to spite your face to with the objective to still suck or stay where you are at.
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Yeah, teams like Buffalo and Arizona might be looking to improve themselves and make the playoffs. Hayes could make any team better, players like him are not that easy to find.
 
WeNeverGetaGoodCoach said:
Yeah, teams like Buffalo and Arizona might be looking to improve themselves and make the playoffs. Hayes could make any team better, players like him are not that easy to find.
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Those two are interesting because making the playoffs would be huge for them. ARI, if the goaltending stays healthy should be a step up from a bottom feeder. If their kids upfront all take steps forward, and are conscious defensively, then you have the depth needed. The defense is a little iffy, and Raanta will need to be lights out for them. Having half of your forwards on ELCs isn't really a sign of a contender, but they've got some intriguing depth.

BUF won't make the playoffs, not with that defense, and without a 4th line that can eat their tangible minutes. But if they acquire two defenders, just reliable ones, and another forward that can slot the line-up appropriately, then you have the makings of a wildcard team.

Still a lot of what-ifs, but playoffs for those two markets would be huge. They would both need 30-40 point improvements in the standings, and while I don't see it taking place, the team that might be able to pull it off is BUF out of the two.
 
Mikos87 said:
Those two are interesting because making the playoffs would be huge for them. ARI, if the goaltending stays healthy should be a step up from a bottom feeder. If their kids upfront all take steps forward, and are conscious defensively, then you have the depth needed. The defense is a little iffy, and Raanta will need to be lights out for them. Having half of your forwards on ELCs isn't really a sign of a contender, but they've got some intriguing depth.

BUF won't make the playoffs, not with that defense, and without a 4th line that can eat their tangible minutes. But if they acquire two defenders, just reliable ones, and another forward that can slot the line-up appropriately, then you have the makings of a wildcard team.

Still a lot of what-ifs, but playoffs for those two markets would be huge. They would both need 30-40 point improvements in the standings, and while I don't see it taking place, the team that might be able to pull it off is BUF out of the two.
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also don't forget those teams have a ton of prospects some that might surprise a lot of people.
 
Blue Blooded said:
I concur with @Machinehead that signing Panarin or Karlsson if the opportunity arises is a no-brainer. Unless Gorton does something incredibly stupid, this roster (incl. developing prospects) + one of Panarin/Karlsson is ready to compete in 2019-20.

2018-19 is 2010-11, not 2004-05.
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Yea I’m for signing Panarin. Need a sniper And they are clearly adding Russians

This is a big year on D. Ideally Pionk and deAngelo take a step proving they belong . If they don’t it’s going to take a while for guys like Hajek , Lindgren , Day to also fit in

Need Staal and Smith to do well so they can be dealt
 
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I think this is a longer rebuild than most will want, including the Rangers.

When do the 2017 draftees reach their prime? Say age 23 or so?

Are we still waiting to see Skjei in his prime at 24, Zbad at 25?

Chytil and Andersson are currently 18 and 19.
 
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Off Sides said:
I think this is a longer rebuild than most will want, including the Rangers.

When do the 2017 draftees reach their prime? Say age 23 or so?

Are we still waiting to see Skjei in his prime at 24, Zbad at 25?

Chytil and Andersson are currently 18 and 19.
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You could be right, but what other guys have done has no impact on chytil/lias.

The quickness or their rebuild does depend on how those guys (and others) develop but unless someone we have turns into a bonified stud, we need that before we can really take the next step.

They need to commit to being bad this year. They can talk to the media all they want about how they like their group, think they’ll surprise a lot of people and cite Vegas a billion times just to piss me off as long as internally, they know where this team really stands. I think that with the way everything has gone they have a solid handle on this, but we’ll see.
 
EpicDing said:
This is a very, very good point that I think gets overlooked here. If we aren't competitive by the time Karlsson/Panarin decline, something else went wrong along the way.
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I agree with the both of you. Karlsson and Panarin should be brought in if they're interested in coming here to improve the team.

The Rangers don't have any game breakers. Andersson and the other prospects traded for last year can be good complimentary players but are not going to be stars. Kravtsov and Chytil have a chance at being really good to elite, but they're not shoe ins to get to their potential.

Karlsson is one of the best defensemen of this generation and is a top 5 player in the entire league when healthy. As mentioned, he almost got Ottawa to a Cup final on one leg.

Panarin is a dynamic winger that's good for 65 to 70 points that has a skill set that none of our current players of prospects possess.

Seguin would be a great add too for that matter, but I don't think he makes it to free agency.

All three of these players are no brainers to add to this team. They will still all be elite players when this team is ready to contend again.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
You could be right, but what other guys have done has no impact on chytil/lias.

The quickness or their rebuild does depend on how those guys (and others) develop but unless someone we have turns into a bonified stud, we need that before we can really take the next step.

They need to commit to being bad this year. They can talk to the media all they want about how they like their group, think they’ll surprise a lot of people and cite Vegas a billion times just to piss me off as long as internally, they know where this team really stands. I think that with the way everything has gone they have a solid handle on this, but we’ll see.
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I do not disagree with you on this season, I too believe they would benefit from not being very good this year.

My guess, Chytil and Andersson play some games this year, they may not be on the roster for 40 of them. I believe they will be okay but not sure it's going to be their breakout season.
 
Machinehead said:
I could see Panarin because he isn't quite that level of talent, but there's absolutely no excuse not to offer Karlsson the moon.

There's no franchise, no outlook, and no plan that he doesn't fit into. You make him fit. He is the plan.

He might be the best u30 player to ever hit free agency if he gets there.

"Erik Karlsson killed my dog and ate him" isn't a good excuse to not sign Karlsson.
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The issue with EK, for many of us, is his health. I don't think anybody is doubting his talent. Are we signing EK to a massive contract and paying him for what he's going to bring? Or what he's accomplished? Can he stay healthy enough throughout that massive contract and produce like he has been throughout his career?

That's a big gamble. A little too rich for me, personally.
 
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A few state of the union-thoughts:

I have been kind of concerned about the status of our rebuild. I have just been concerned about the timing not adding up. Just looking at what you need to contend, and when the kids we pick up as we speak might get there -- it just don't add up. And we are not getting a complete set of assets required through drafting and the odd UDFA signing.

-A defensemen that you draft takes like 5-6 years to become a good D and another 2-3 years before he can be a core D. At least as a norm. The McAvoy exceptions are extremely rare.

-Forwards can arrive faster. But if we look at like the average guy, they also take a lot of time. A Kreider. A JT Miller. Those types. Its 3-5 years to get into the league and hold a spot and another 2-3 years before they really can carry the load.

-And, most importantly, bad teams develop bad players and good teams develop good players. This is especially true for Ds. If we suck for a handful of years -- we got to expect that we will do a ton of damage to the kids on the team. All other teams in the same situation have done just that.

From my POV, the best thing you can do is to have a functioning operation and team and then try to hit jack-pot. Either by like bottom out one year and strike gold with a top kid or by getting a top guy like Pasternak with a later pick. Boston is a good example. But we are selling off all our players. And the UFA market will be horrible for many years to come. Expensive and bare.

However, the Skinner trade gives me some hope. There is just no market whatsoever for GMs selling assets. For various reasons, mostly the environment GM's operate in, there just are no buyers out there in trades. The key for Gorton going forward is probably to be able to solidify our team with getting contracts through trades. Trading for good players. Not 30 y/os. Skinner is 26 and went for nothing. JT Miller is 25 and went for nothing. McD went for almost nothing. 2nd round picks basically.
 
True, timing is a consideration but Panarin and Karlsson do offer things that aren’t in our pipeline in the near future - 1RD and true sniper (too early to say Kravtsov here or we wind up with 2). Even as others develop and grow, we’ll still need those 2 things (or a successful derivative) to compete for a cup.
 
Lindberg Cheese said:
True, timing is a consideration but Panarin and Karlsson do offer things that aren’t in our pipeline in the near future - 1RD and true sniper (too early to say Kravtsov here or we wind up with 2). Even as others develop and grow, we’ll still need those 2 things (or a successful derivative) to compete for a cup.
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When will the Rangers be ready to compete for the Cup? It will take much more than Karlsson and/or Panarin. By the time the Rangers are ready to compete for the Cup, both of them will be on the other side of 30 and their contracts becoming anchors on the cap. No thanks.
 
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silverfish said:
Span-Now-I-Can-Die-In-Peace_BP.jpg
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More sarcastic responses.
 
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Ola said:
A few state of the union-thoughts:

I have been kind of concerned about the status of our rebuild. I have just been concerned about the timing not adding up. Just looking at what you need to contend, and when the kids we pick up as we speak might get there -- it just don't add up. And we are not getting a complete set of assets required through drafting and the odd UDFA signing.

-A defensemen that you draft takes like 5-6 years to become a good D and another 2-3 years before he can be a core D. At least as a norm. The McAvoy exceptions are extremely rare.

-Forwards can arrive faster. But if we look at like the average guy, they also take a lot of time. A Kreider. A JT Miller. Those types. Its 3-5 years to get into the league and hold a spot and another 2-3 years before they really can carry the load.

-And, most importantly, bad teams develop bad players and good teams develop good players. This is especially true for Ds. If we suck for a handful of years -- we got to expect that we will do a ton of damage to the kids on the team. All other teams in the same situation have done just that.

From my POV, the best thing you can do is to have a functioning operation and team and then try to hit jack-pot. Either by like bottom out one year and strike gold with a top kid or by getting a top guy like Pasternak with a later pick. Boston is a good example. But we are selling off all our players. And the UFA market will be horrible for many years to come. Expensive and bare.

However, the Skinner trade gives me some hope. There is just no market whatsoever for GMs selling assets. For various reasons, mostly the environment GM's operate in, there just are no buyers out there in trades. The key for Gorton going forward is probably to be able to solidify our team with getting contracts through trades. Trading for good players. Not 30 y/os. Skinner is 26 and went for nothing. JT Miller is 25 and went for nothing. McD went for almost nothing. 2nd round picks basically.
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Doesn't add up in what way? Yes, they're all young, but they're all very close in age to one another, which is what matters when talking about timing adding up, no?
 
RangerBoy said:
When will the Rangers be ready to compete for the Cup? It will take much more than Karlsson and/or Panarin. By the time the Rangers are ready to compete for the Cup, both of them will be on the other side of 30 and their contracts becoming anchors on the cap. No thanks.
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When do you think they’ll be ready? I tried asking you this multiple times a few weeks ago when I talked about why they should sign Hayes long term and never got a response.

You’ve been one of the more prominent voices of the rebuild, but I’m not sure if I’ve seen you suggest an actual timeline you’d like to see them follow. I know your post infers that you mean 4-5 years.
 
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