Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Now with less frenzy!

[Kovalev27]

They definitely have a plan. Which would indicate a target. Not just let’s just rebuild forever and see where it takes us.

They know who they want to move out who they want to keep who they want to sign. Tons of short term deals Suggest just that.

 

[Tawnos]

Having a target is great and all but does that mean you deem it a failure if it takes a year or 2 longer?

No, but that’s not what anyone is doing is it?

There is a line though. There are plenty of teams that have had to go through more than 1 rebuild because the first one didn’t take. Florida, for example. And even that I don’t truly blame on management, but sometimes a new direction is necessary simply for the sake of the new direction.

I always like the Panthers example of a team who did the rebuild right and it still didn’t work. They drafted what should have been a future 1C (4th), 2C (9th), 3C (7th), 1D (3rd), and 1RW (3rd) in the top 10 over a 4 year period. None of them became all stars and 2 of them busted. The real indicator for the Rangers is if they get anything out of the rest of the draft. During that span, the only decent NHL player the Panthers drafted outside of the first round was David Booth. They topped out as a bubble team and then had to rebuild all over. If you’re going to succeed, you need the luck to have your top picks reach their potential AND obtain depth from the draft.

 

[Lundy HOF]

If Ottawa really decides to blow it up how do Mark Stone and Matt Duchebe effect the value of guys like Hayes and Zuccarello?

Given they owe their pick to COL this draft, I don’t think they will trade any unless they feel like it is an absolute must.

I’d rather let Duchene walk for free than turn over Hughes to COL...

 

[Tawnos]

Given they owe their pick to COL this draft, I don’t think they will trade any unless they feel like it is an absolute must.

I’d rather let Duchene walk for free than turn over Hughes to COL...

They won’t have that pick no matter what. I don’t see why or how it should have any bearing on their decision making.

The goal of the Senators this season is not going to be to prevent the Avalanche from getting a good pick. They’re going to do what is right for the Senators.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

No, but that’s not what anyone is doing is it?

There is a line though. There are plenty of teams that have had to go through more than 1 rebuild because the first one didn’t take. Florida, for example. And even that I don’t truly blame on management, but sometimes a new direction is necessary simply for the sake of the new direction.

I always like the Panthers example of a team who did the rebuild right and it still didn’t work. They drafted what should have been a future 1C (4th), 2C (9th), 3C (7th), 1D (3rd), and 1RW (3rd) in the top 10 over a 4 year period. None of them became all stars and 2 of them busted. The real indicator for the Rangers is if they get anything out of the rest of the draft. During that span, the only decent NHL player the Panthers drafted outside of the first round was David Booth. They topped out as a bubble team and then had to rebuild all over. If you’re going to succeed, you need the luck to have your top picks reach their potential AND obtain depth from the draft.

Good analysis of the Panther rebuild and I agree sometimes teams can make all the right moves and it still doesnt work out. That's why IMO tanking is a terrible strategy. There definitely is a time table but i dont think it's as concrete as some here believe. I think it's more a range like 2-4 years based on all of the variables that exist. Ugh, can you imagine this place if this rebuild doesnt work out?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Florida was legitimately good last year and was up there with the likes of Pittsburgh, Philly, Minnesota, Anaheim, Nashville and Winnipeg one of the hottest teams during the 2nd half of the season. They have a legit as **** offense and defense and Luongo is still pretty good (They make it in over the Devils and finish ahead of CBJ for the 1st WC if Luongo doesn't get hurt.) They finished 19 points ahead of us. They're flat out better than we are. This isn't even up for debate.

Philly too, plus they added JVR. Injuries aside I don't see how you can peg them for a decline. they have a good young D and Giroux/Voracek are better than anything we have on offense (their depth is better too).

Devils will regress, but not to the point where they're worse than us. If Hall misses significant time next year, we can have this discussion. CBJ too if Panarin gets traded but that isn't a given. If he stays and they have that cloud hanging over them, I doubt it will be much of a distraction.

I think it's fair to group the Rangers in with the rest of those teams, but lets say everything went right for all of those teams (OTT, MTL, DET, NYR, NYI, CAR,BUF) the Rangers aren't finishing at the top of that group. Now everything won't go right for any of those teams, but the less things you need to break in your favor, they better you normally are.

I even struggle to put Carolina there, they've clearly improved. Buffalo has enough pieces to be one of those teams that takes a quantum leap but I can't comfortably make that prediction.

Philly to me takes the next step. They might win the #2-3 first round matchup. Florida is an interesting case. Every year they're supposed to break out but never quite do. Good offensive team. Luongo is getting up there in age. Carolina has the worst goaltending the league. That team is going to play 80s hockey all year and have to win 6-5, 5-4, etc. CBJ has been really weird in the Bob era. They usually go as he goes. Buffalo is such a toss up. Another team with awful goaltending, and honestly outside of Dahlin and Risto, their D isn't that great.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Was playing around with the CapFriendly GM thingy... im horrible at valuating other team's prospects so here goes nothing.
Buy-Outs: Marc Staal
Trades:
To Calgary: K. Hayes, R. Spooner
To NYR: R. Andersson, S. Foo, 2019 3rd, 2020 4th

To Dallas: M. Zuccarello, A. DeAngelo, 2020 4th
To NYR: D. Gurianov, J. Spezza, R.Hintz, 2019 1st

Lineup:
Kreider - Zib - Buch
Names - Chytil - Fast
Andersson - Spezza - Foo
Vesey - Howden - Meskanen
Beleskey

Skjei - Shattenkirk
Pionk - Smith
Hajek - Andersson
Claesson

Lundqvist
Georgiev

2019 NHL Draft: 2 1st (3 if TBL Wins), 2 2nd (1 if TBL Wins), 2 3rd, , 1 4th, 1 5th, 1 6th, 1 7th

 

[eco's bones]

The context of that might is if you move Hayes, not whether they’re a step back. They clearly are.

I don’t really care if Spooner isn’t a very good center. You’re really not asking him to be. Any talk of quality beyond “can he play the position beyond the level of a 4th liner” is meaningless. Would Spooner be a better 3rd line center than Holland? Absolutely. That’s as far as it needs to go.

I don’t really put much stock into faceoff numbers when the bulk of them are coming after the center gets thrown out. 9/10, the replacement doesn’t get a real chance to set.

Well as long at that's clear.....but some people can't get past the idea that a forward can put up 40 or 40+ points and he can still kind of suck. Hayes is a good player. IMO Namestnikov should be a better player for us this year than he was last year though he's not as good of a player than Hayes--he at least should be a pretty good winger who can fill in at center. Spooner is what he is---this decade's version of Erik Christensen. If you have the room for him on the power play--he will make plays that lead to goals. He's got nifty hands but he's a playmaker a lot more than he's a shooter. On the pwp he's the winger on the walls--not the guy crashing the net.

Back to the face-offs--23 wins 53 losses is kind of a big deal--especially when the guy who's losing them in a nightmare defensively.

 

[Kovalev27]

Good analysis of the Panther rebuild and I agree sometimes teams can make all the right moves and it still doesnt work out. That's why IMO tanking is a terrible strategy. There definitely is a time table but i dont think it's as concrete as some here believe. I think it's more a range like 2-4 years based on all of the variables that exist. Ugh, can you imagine this place if this rebuild doesnt work out?

You said you found it funny people were putting a time frame on the rebuild but then gave it a 2-4 year window. I said 3 year plan.

And I’m just teasing u of course but sure you can see we’re kind of saying the same thing

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

You said you found it funny people were putting a time frame on the rebuild but then gave it a 2-4 year window. I said 3 year plan.

And I’m just teasing u of course but sure you can see we’re kind of saying the same thing

Haha yeah I know. Your post just reminded me that I've seen posters declare it a 1, 2 or 3 year rebuild. I just don't think it's possible to peg it like that. Lots of moving parts to the puzzle.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If they get one of the good centers in next summer's draft (Hughes, Turcotte, Newhook etc) that would help accelerate things tremendously

In theory in '20-'21 they should have most of the pieces in place to be a contender. Deep prospect pool, good veteran players, depth at center, competent goaltender in Shestyorkin

But that's assuming everything goes correctly.

The real "need", if you want to use that word, is acquiring a top pairing #1 defenseman. At the moment none of the guys in the system project as that, with Hajek for me being the closest if he reaches his peak, as a solid #2

Miller has the potential but who know what he becomes. Ideally they try to find a RD in that mold. The 2019 draft is more forward heavy than defense, but a guy like Honka could be a top pairing RD. I like the American duo of Hellenson and McCarthy, though I'm not sure I consider them top pairing potential at the moment

Maybe they trade for one in the next year, who knows

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If they get one of the good centers in next summer's draft (Hughes, Turcotte, Newhook etc) that would help accelerate things tremendously

In theory in '20-'21 they should have most of the pieces in place to be a contender. Deep prospect pool, good veteran players, depth at center, competent goaltender in Shestyorkin

But that's assuming everything goes correctly.

The real "need", if you want to use that word, is acquiring a top pairing #1 defenseman. At the moment none of the guys in the system project as that, with Hajek for me being the closest if he reaches his peak, as a solid #2

Miller has the potential but who know what he becomes. Ideally they try to find a RD in that mold. The 2019 draft is more forward heavy than defense, but a guy like Honka could be a top pairing RD. I like the American duo of Hellenson and McCarthy, though I'm not sure I consider them top pairing potential at the moment

Maybe the trade for one in the next year, who knows

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Double post

 

[bobbop]

The problem with Hayes is that he is only a number two center on a bad team and more realistically a number three on a good team. There are a lot of number three centers with bad contracts.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Was playing around with the CapFriendly GM thingy... im horrible at valuating other team's prospects so here goes nothing.
Buy-Outs: Marc Staal
Trades:
To Calgary: K. Hayes, R. Spooner
To NYR: R. Andersson, S. Foo, 2019 3rd, 2020 4th

To Dallas: M. Zuccarello, A. DeAngelo, 2020 4th
To NYR: D. Gurianov, J. Spezza, R.Hintz, 2019 1st

Lineup:
Kreider - Zib - Buch
Names - Chytil - Fast
Andersson - Spezza - Foo
Vesey - Howden - Meskanen
Beleskey

Skjei - Shattenkirk
Pionk - Smith
Hajek - Andersson
Claesson

Lundqvist
Georgiev

2019 NHL Draft: 2 1st (3 if TBL Wins), 2 2nd (1 if TBL Wins), 2 3rd, , 1 4th, 1 5th, 1 6th, 1 7th

Calgary ship has sailed over a month ago. They traded already for a center that they coach wanted and signed another one as a UFA.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

The five Rangers who have the most to gain in Quinn’s first training camp

Blueshirt Banter 2018 New York Rangers Prospect Rankings Master List

 

[GAGLine]

Was playing around with the CapFriendly GM thingy... im horrible at valuating other team's prospects so here goes nothing.
Buy-Outs: Marc Staal

Staal can't be bought out until next June. Why would we buy him out this year anyway?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Maybe we can do something with Calgary

where we end up with salary dumps Hamonic and Frolik as well as Bennett, 1st rounder and one of their top prospects

and they end up with salary dump Staal, Vesey, Hayes and DeAngelo.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe we can do something with Calgary

where we end up with salary dumps Hamonic and Frolik as well as Bennett, 1st rounder and one of their top prospects

and they end up with salary dump Staal, Vesey, Hayes and DeAngelo.

Why would they trade salary dumps for a worse salary dump?

 

[Lundy HOF]

They won’t have that pick no matter what. I don’t see why or how it should have any bearing on their decision making.

The goal of the Senators this season is not going to be to prevent the Avalanche from getting a good pick. They’re going to do what is right for the Senators.

That’s totally fair. For me the “right” thing for the Sens organization may totally take optics and PR into account. A lot easier to not take heat from the media and fan base if the picks up at 6 or 7 rather than 1 or 2.

The senators have literally no tangible benefit from sucking this season.

 

[Lundy HOF]

They won’t have that pick no matter what. I don’t see why or how it should have any bearing on their decision making.

The goal of the Senators this season is not going to be to prevent the Avalanche from getting a good pick. They’re going to do what is right for the Senators.

That’s totally fair. For me the “right” thing for the Sens organization may totally take optics and PR into account. A lot easier to not take heat from the media and fan base if the picks up at 6 or 7 rather than 1 or 2.

The senators have literally no tangible benefit from sucking this season.

 

[NYR]

I wanted AV fired two years ago, but Gorton was also stuck in between a rock and a hard place coming off the SCF and ECF runs. Which players are you referring to in your second paragraph?



I’ll try to find it, but it was work done by Micah McCurdy or Garret Hohl I believe two years ago.

I wanted AV canned after the Montreal series.
I wasn't referring to any specific players but players in general.
If you have a roster that's not clicking on all cylinders then find the weakness and remove the dead weight on a piece by piece basis.
Don't just ship out everyone and replace them with the garbage that we have now..

 

[NYR]

You said you found it funny people were putting a time frame on the rebuild but then gave it a 2-4 year window. I said 3 year plan.

And I’m just teasing u of course but sure you can see we’re kind of saying the same thing

If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick a time frame, 3 years is if the stars and moon align perfectly without a hitch.
In reality, this is a long term rebuild.

If Andersson and Chytil make the team they most likely still won't be ready and if they are, how long will it take until they actually make an impact?

Also, if they decide to throw crazy numbers at UFA next year, we'll only end up right where we've been all along.

Sorry to be so negative and down on my team but this is a complete shit show..

 

[NYR]

You said you found it funny people were putting a time frame on the rebuild but then gave it a 2-4 year window. I said 3 year plan.

And I’m just teasing u of course but sure you can see we’re kind of saying the same thing

If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick a time frame, 3 years is if the stars and moon align perfectly without a hitch.
In reality, this is a long term rebuild.

If Andersson and Chytil make the team they most likely still won't be ready and if they are, how long will it take until they actually make an impact?

Also, if they decide to throw crazy numbers at UFA next year, we'll only end up right where we've been all along.

Sorry to be so negative and down on my team but this is a complete shit show..

 

[Machinehead]

If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick a time frame, 3 years is if the stars and moon align perfectly without a hitch.
In reality, this is a long term rebuild.

If Andersson and Chytil make the team they most likely still won't be ready and if they are, how long will it take until they actually make an impact?

Also, if they decide to throw crazy numbers at UFA next year, we'll only end up right where we've been all along.

Sorry to be so negative and down on my team but this is a complete **** show..

Depends on what UFA's we're talking about.

Karlsson and Panarin are world-class players in their prime. Signing them would be more akin to the Messier trade in terms of on-ice output than any of the failed signings in more recent years.