Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Now with less frenzy!

[FIRE DRURY]

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Karlsson is a generational D. No one Sather signed in UFA was anywhere close to the talent that Karlsson is. They were all "borderline" first liners.

Richards was coming off 91p/80gp and 77p/72gp before signing here. That's pretty elite production.

And I don't give a damn if EK is going to continue being an elite player next season, or the season after that. Look at year 3+4+5 of his contract when our pubescent kids are growing some hair on their balls and are ready to (hopefully) compete. And then look at year 6 and 7. And then look at his NMC, cause you know he's not signing a long-term deal without that.

And what I meant by my Sather comment, was the fact that Sather couldn't avoid the big fish in free agency during his tenure here as GM. Apparently you can't either since you're on this EK bandwagon.

 

[Kakko]

Whoever signs EK @ 7-8 years has to be in the right situation.
If you have a legit chance to contend, then maybe you look at that contract and think, it just might be worth paying for those extra years

But how many teams that are on the edge and could instantly compete by adding a Karlsson or Panarin have the cap space? Teams that are still young and cheap, can hope to have the rest of their guys take a step up.
I don't think it's impossible that good teams find the space, but it's hard not to lose something in the process if your current core is already making real money.
Toronto had the space for Tavares because Matthews and Marner are still on their ELC, and I'm really interested to see how they handle next summer.

 

[TheTakedown]

You can't even make a point of "we may or may not be contending" until we see what kind of talent we have. If Andersson becomes a Toews-like player, and Chytil becomes a 65 point winger, and Buchnevich finally breaks out, on top of the pieces that we already have (Zibanejad, Kreider), then yes, you can safely say adding Karlsson makes sense. On the other hand if those guys need another 2-3 years before they are ready (unlikely, but possible) then that's something else you have to deal with.

Right now there is a steady flow of prospects in the pipeline. We'll see what they look like this coming season. My gut tells me that we're going to have some nice surprises.

IMO if Andersson, Chytil, and a couple of mid round hit even 70% of their potential we're going to have a good team

 

[TheTakedown]

But how many teams that are on the edge and could instantly compete by adding a Karlsson or Panarin have the cap space? Teams that are still young and cheap, can hope to have the rest of their guys take a step up.
I don't think it's impossible that good teams find the space, but it's hard not to lose something in the process if your current core is already making real money.
Toronto had the space for Tavares because Matthews and Marner are still on their ELC, and I'm really interested to see how they handle next summer.

Was literally about to use this as a comparable. Toronto is taking advantage of their ELC Windows. They have Matthews, Nylander, and marner all on ELC's. They'll lose 1, if not 2 of them, but right now Tavares is the piece that puts them on top

 

[True Blue]

I think the point is if we're signing EK or Panarin or Seguin, that "2-3" year made up window goes out the window and the team will be back to trying to compete next season.

None of those players will make a lick of difference on this team. Not in the big picture.

 

[Kakko]

Was literally about to use this as a comparable. Toronto is taking advantage of their ELC Windows. They have Matthews, Nylander, and marner all on ELC's. They'll lose 1, if not 2 of them, but right now Tavares is the piece that puts them on top

Well, your other post was what I was about to follow up with
For me, it depends a lot on how the kids look next year. If they don't look NHL ready at all, I would question that they'll be at their peak the same time as Karlsson/Panarin/Seguin. If they can stick around, their timeline is probably different, and there is a solid chance there'll be an overlap.

 

[silverfish]

None of those players will make a lick of difference on this team. Not in the big picture.

Okay again but I think it goes without saying that if this team signs one of the big three on 7/1 this year, that's not all they're going to do. It's not going to be this roster plus Karlsson. It'll be this roster plus Karlsson plus other players they bring in because hi we're competing now.

The point being that if this team signs one of them, the rebuild is over, and we're competing again, and the GM and FO will act accordingly.

And let me just disclaim that I'm not advocating one way or the other, I'm just saying people fail to see that when other posters are talking about EK65, it won't be the only move, it'll be the catalyst to a host of moves where GMJG tries to take this team from rebuilding to competing.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

None of those players will make a lick of difference on this team. Not in the big picture.

There is no big picture for some posters here.

They see a good player possibly hit free agency and they start having delusions of grandeur. They are simple chess players that see 1 to 2 moves ahead, and then they wonder why they get schooled every game.

Thank the heavens some posters are not running this team. It would be 2007 and 2008 all over again. ****ing groundhog day.

 

[NYR]

But how many teams that are on the edge and could instantly compete by adding a Karlsson or Panarin have the cap space? Teams that are still young and cheap, can hope to have the rest of their guys take a step up.
I don't think it's impossible that good teams find the space, but it's hard not to lose something in the process if your current core is already making real money.
Toronto had the space for Tavares because Matthews and Marner are still on their ELC, and I'm really interested to see how they handle next summer.

I think Tampa probably should've put in an aggressive offer for EK.
They HAD the cap space before signing McD and Miller.
As far as non-contenders, at this stage of his career and age, why would EK want to sign with a rebuilding team?

 

[NYR]

Only thing that would sway me to re-think the game plan at this stage is if we can get our hands on Seguin..

 

[Beer League Sniper]

There is no big picture for some posters here.

They see a good player possibly hit free agency and they start having delusions of grandeur. They are simple chess players that see 1 to 2 moves ahead, and then they wonder why they get schooled every game.

Thank the heavens some posters are not running this team. It would be 2007 and 2008 all over again. ****ing groundhog day.

You just can't accept that someone might have a different opinion.

Rebuilds aren't about sucking as much as possible. They're about accumulating talent.

We've shed expiring contracts the past two seasons, and returned picks, prospects, and young roster players. Keep doing it. But, if you can also add elite talent for nothing but cash, there's no downside.

For every PIT or CHI that failed their way to the top, there's many more teams that get mired in the dregs of the league for 10 years. There's no rule that you need to suck for 3+ years in order to compete again. And there's especially no rule that says you have to pass on game-breaking talent because you need to get into laughingstock territory for a small chance to draft 1 or 2.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You just can't accept that someone might have a different opinion.

Rebuilds aren't about sucking as much as possible. They're about accumulating talent.

We've shed expiring contracts the past two seasons, and returned picks, prospects, and young roster players. Keep doing it. But, if you can also add elite talent for nothing but cash, there's no downside.

For every PIT or CHI that failed their way to the top, there's many more teams that get mired in the dregs of the league for 10 years. There's no rule that you need to suck for 3+ years in order to compete again. And there's especially no rule that says you have to pass on game-breaking talent because you need to get into laughingstock territory for a small chance to draft 1 or 2.

Isn't the best way to get the best talent is to suck as much as possible? Seems that way.

 

[NYR]

You just can't accept that someone might have a different opinion.

Rebuilds aren't about sucking as much as possible. They're about accumulating talent.

We've shed expiring contracts the past two seasons, and returned picks, prospects, and young roster players. Keep doing it. But, if you can also add elite talent for nothing but cash, there's no downside.

For every PIT or CHI that failed their way to the top, there's many more teams that get mired in the dregs of the league for 10 years. There's no rule that you need to suck for 3+ years in order to compete again. And there's especially no rule that says you have to pass on game-breaking talent because you need to get into laughingstock territory for a small chance to draft 1 or 2.

Yeah but when you fail to sign much needed role players..Roussel, Beagle, Calvert, Karmonov, Cole (who would've stabilized this D)..it speaks to the contrary.
You can't compete without such players and they would've cost nothing but money..

You can say that maybe they didn't want to sign with a re-builder but same applies to elite players..

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah but when you fail to sign much needed role players..Roussel, Beagle, Calvert, Karmonov, Cole (who would've stabilized this D)..it speaks to the contrary.
You can't compete without such players and they would've cost nothing but money..

You can say that maybe they didn't want to sign with a re-builder but same applies to elite players..

And unlike Shattenkirk, Cole has 2 rings, don't forget!

 

[True Blue]

And let me just disclaim that I'm not advocating one way or the other, I'm just saying people fail to see that when other posters are talking about EK65, it won't be the only move, it'll be the catalyst to a host of moves where GMJG tries to take this team from rebuilding to competing.

I understand. I just do not see what combination of moves is even possible that would put the team in the "true contender" conversation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I understand. I just do not see what combination of moves is even possible that would put the team in the "true contender" conversation.

Drafting jack Hughes

SIgning EK and Panarin

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You just can't accept that someone might have a different opinion.

Rebuilds aren't about sucking as much as possible. They're about accumulating talent.

We've shed expiring contracts the past two seasons, and returned picks, prospects, and young roster players. Keep doing it. But, if you can also add elite talent for nothing but cash, there's no downside.

For every PIT or CHI that failed their way to the top, there's many more teams that get mired in the dregs of the league for 10 years. There's no rule that you need to suck for 3+ years in order to compete again. And there's especially no rule that says you have to pass on game-breaking talent because you need to get into laughingstock territory for a small chance to draft 1 or 2.

For starters, I don’t believe in tanking. I also didn’t mention we follow Chi or Pit’s road to success. Why would you post that as a response to our discussion..?

I also expressed how I’d be more open to a guy like Panarin over EK, and I specifically stated why.

And I do welcome different opinions. I just wholeheartedly despise the very concept of giving EK a monster contract given the fact that 50% of the bone in his ankle has been removed, and has had a torn Achilles. Combine that with the fact that he’ll be 29 and will probably be looking at a lengthy double-digit contract with some sort of NMC.

 

[NYR]

And unlike Shattenkirk, Cole has 2 rings, don't forget!

Damn straight.
But you will get your wish and Shattenkirk be the #1D this year.
It will be hilarious watching you back track

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Damn straight.
But you will get your wish and Shattenkirk be the #1D this year.
It will be hilarious watching you back track

Back track? Back track on what? I'm just referring to something you said previously despite not being a Shattenkirk fan.

 

[NYR]

Back track? Back track on what? I'm just referring to something you said previously despite not being a Shattenkirk fan.

Listen..Don't get me started on Shattenkirk................^%#@#^%# lol

 

[silverfish]

I understand. I just do not see what combination of moves is even possible that would put the team in the "true contender" conversation.

You gotta expand your imagination my dude.

 

[NYR]

I think the point is if we're signing EK or Panarin or Seguin, that "2-3" year made up window goes out the window and the team will be back to trying to compete next season.

What exactly are you competing for with just one of those players?
A first round exit?

 

[Avery16]

Damn straight.
But you will get your wish and Shattenkirk be the #1D this year.
It will be hilarious watching you back track

And Cole will still be third pair with Colorado

 

[Siddi]

I want Karlsson but I don't want him here on a 7 year deal. I'd see if he'd sign a shorter term deal a la Shattenkirk. If this is another Shattenkirk type of situation as @Siddi has implied, Karlsson will take less money and term to come here.

Money isn't everything. Lifestyle matters a lot to some players.

Also, there are other incentives Dolan can offer EK to bridge the gap on whatever he leaves on the table.

 

[NYR]

And Cole will still be third pair with Colorado

He's #2 pair with Shattenkirk on this team