Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[Avery16]

I still think Kane comes here on a Selanne deal in January or February, but yeah, Othmann or Lafreniere need to grab the brass ring and be able to at least be passable in a top 6 role.

I see it more with Othmann personally. He has that quick release that can net him some goals off the rush on his off wing. Put him with Kreider and Trochek and insulate him defensively if he earns it.

Laf-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil-Wheeler
Kreid-Troch-Oth
Jimothy-Bonino-Goody
Belzile

I’d prefer Selanne came in on a Selanne deal.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, in case anybody wants to know, here are those nine left wings. Nevermind, it's eight, f*** Jake Guentzel:

Panarin
Tkachuk (the good one)
Marchand
Huberdeau (probably not, actually, but I'm being generous)
Kaprisov
Connor
Gaudreau
Robertson

And before anyone asks, at this point, no, not Ovechkin. 38 year old Ovechkin doesn't do a damn thing better than Kreider, including score goals with his FIFTEEN ass empty netters he has the last two seasons.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[UnSandvich]

Tbh I think we do have the perfect complement to Panarin already in the org. He’s a quick skater, very good hockey IQ, and relentless on both the forecheck and backcheck. The problem is Panarin is getting older and the kid just ain’t ready yet.

 

[I Eat Crow]

That quote makes it sound like Pitlick is an opening night starter. Ew. He stinks. There's not a thing he does better than Johnny Brodzinski. Johnny B is a much better skater at that.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, maybe some folks are getting carried away there. I didn't notice it.
Which Tkachuk? Matthew doesn't hit anywhere near as much as Brady. I don't think he will score like Matthew but he's at least as physical.
Edit: Yeah, just took a look, Matthew had 68 hits last year, Brady had 242. Matthew is 6'2" 201 pounds, Brady is 6'4" 221. I think Othmann will throw a lot more hits than 70 per year, and he leans into it. Othmann may top out at like 6'1" 205, he's still just 20.
(BTW Marchand had 81 hits.)

Also, physicality is about more than just what shows up in the hits column.

 

[SA16]

So now, not only does Othmann have to acclimate to playing at a heavier weight he has to simultaneously learn to play a new position?

 

[bhamill]

I would assume Matthew is in people's minds because he's the good one.

He does hit a lot less than Brady, and that aspect of Matthew's game is probably overrated, although to be fair, he literally always has the puck so it's hard to hit.

I'd kill to have either Tkachuck on this team.

Also, physicality is about more than just what shows up in the hits column.

Sure, but it's a pretty good indicator.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That quote makes it sound like Pitlick is an opening night starter. Ew. He stinks. There's not a thing he does better than Johnny Brodzinski. Johnny B is a much better skater at that.

Pitlick hasn't played an injury-free season since 2017-18, when Alain Vigneault was still our coach. I wouldn't bet money on him playing 70+ games this season.

 

[haohmaru]

So now, not only does Othmann have to acclimate to playing at a heavier weight he has to simultaneously learn to play a new position?

He said in an interview with Vince that he’s played, and is comfortable playing, both sides.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sure, but it's a pretty good indicator.

Eh. "Hits" is the most misleading stat out there. Worse than plus-minus. Kris Russell is the all-time leader in hits. It was celebrated like he just passed Wayne Gretzky for points when he broke the record.

Russell isn't a defenseman I want on my team even in his best years.

The problem with hits is that it's just an out-of-context raw number. You make contact with an opponent, it's a hit. The outcome is irrelevant. You can have 15 hits in a game. If it doesn't lead to puck possession, it's useless.

Matthew Tkachuk plays a physical game that goes far beyond just hitting players. That's my point. Puck battles in the corner are a big part of playing physical. It doesn't get tracked in the hit column but it's far more effective.

He said in an interview with Vince that he’s played, and is comfortable playing, both sides.

Which I've been saying for 2 years now. He went into this in detail when I interviewed him early last year. I'm glad it's finally covered by an actual reporter so it gets some traction.

 

[bhamill]

So now, not only does Othmann have to acclimate to playing at a heavier weight he has to simultaneously learn to play a new position?

You're a real ray of sunshine! hahaha. I'm sure Othmann has been heavier the start of every season for his entire "career" so far, as he grew up and bigger every year, AND RW isn't new for him. He's played it and says he's comfortable doing so.

 

[bhamill]

Eh. "Hits" is the most misleading stat out there. Worse than plus-minus. Kris Russell is the all-time leader in hits. It was celebrated like he just passed Wayne Gretzky for points when he broke the record.

Russell isn't a defenseman I want on my team even in his best years.

The problem with hits is that it's just an out-of-context raw number. You make contact with an opponent, it's a hit. The outcome is irrelevant. You can have 15 hits in a game. If it doesn't lead to puck possession, it's useless.

Matthew Tkachuk plays a physical game that goes far beyond just hitting players. That's my point. Puck battles in the corner are a big part of playing physical. It doesn't get tracked in the hit column but it's far more effective.

Othmann battles as well. If they get a stat for it I can start citing it, for NOW all we have is hits. Sure, you can be physical and stink... just like you can be lightning fast and stink, just like you can have a BOMB of a shot and stink.... It's a single attribute which adds to the whole.

 

[Levitate]

I don't have any stats to dig into but I feel like for all the bitching out Lafreniere at right wing and how he "needs to shut up and learn to play it", he did just fine when he got opportunities there and it was less him not being able to do it and more Gallant deciding to switch things up.
Maybe a player shouldn't say "I'm more comfortable on X side" but Lafreniere always said he'd play RW or wherever they'd put him. He had a good run with Panarin and Trochek until a few meh games and Gallant blew them up

 

[Avery16]

Pitlick hasn't played an injury-free season since 2017-18, when Alain Vigneault was still our coach. I wouldn't bet money on him playing 70+ games this season.

The above could be in reference to Motte as well, and half the thread is obsessed with him.

 

[eco's bones]

Physicality shows up in a variety of ways. A player who hits a lot and especially if he hits hard is a physical player. That said consistently taking hits to make the right plays counts too as does having Brian Boyle type size---because whether that player is hitting or not--if he's just a big body that's always in the way it can take a lot of an opponent's energy to deal with that. Fighting really doesn't happen all that much for even the more noted fighters. it certainly is a physical component but if it's something that happens for a given player 2-3-4 times a year it shouldn't be overstated. Consistently going to the net into the corners, puck battles doesn't always result in hits but that's part of it too. It's pretty much willingness to compete and engage.

 

[Avery16]

Blues signed Ritchie to a PTO.

 

[haohmaru]

Which I've been saying for 2 years now. He went into this in detail when I interviewed him early last year. I'm glad it's finally covered by an actual reporter so it gets some traction.

Yeah - but there is a grain of salt. The guy isn't dumb and sees what's in front of him on the left side (Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere). It behooves him to be flexible and accommodating and, perhaps, stretching the truth a bit.

I mean, I hope he or Lafreniere can play RW. It would solve issues.

 

[zlev]

it's so demoralizing that Drury watched our first round exit to a highly talented, super fast team with defensmen that can move the puck up the ice and thought "we need more tuffness". shows just how lost this front office is. to be fair there wasn't much he could do with the cap situation, but the last thing I want to do is watch Nick f***ing Bonino get real minutes in the playoffs in the year 2024.

 

[Avery16]

Neither Othmann nor Lafreniere will play above Wheeler or Kakko at RW this season.

 

[haohmaru]

it's so demoralizing that Drury watched our first round exit to a highly talented, super fast team with defensmen that can move the puck up the ice and thought "we need more tuffness". shows just how lost this front office is. to be fair there wasn't much he could do with the cap situation, but the last thing I want to do is watch Nick f***ing Bonino get real minutes in the playoffs in the year 2024.

"tuffness" is the only thing we could afford.

 

[bigdog16]

That quote makes it sound like Pitlick is an opening night starter. Ew. He stinks. There's not a thing he does better than Johnny Brodzinski. Johnny B is a much better skater at that.

He puts up points at a significantly higher rate than Brod. Can't say I am too familiar with Pitlick but Brodzinski never did anything for me other than get in the way tbh

 

[Machinehead]

What we expect Othmann to look like in camp

Othmann actually walking into camp

 

[kinger8998]

To some of your joy, and some of your dismay, I am back for the 2023-2024 season after taking my cool down break for the summer.

I am excited to see what Laviolette can implement. He has a track record of immediate success wherever he goes (Carolina, Philadelphia, Nashville).

While many point to our season hinging on whether Laf/Kakko find success in top 6 RW, I would argue nothing of the sort matters unless we see a different version of playoff pretender Panarin than we have in the last 2 "runs".

He can play it, hell, he played good playoff hockey in Columbus under Torts when they upset Tampa. The season will hinge on that sole fact.

We will be a playoff team. Thats the floor, and no one would consider another 1st or even 2nd round exit acceptable. 3rd round could be swallowed with pain. Panarin will decide, because your top paid player can't be your worst one come playoff time.

 

[kinger8998]

I am also excited to see Blake Wheeler with a chip on his shoulder for us. Is he the 90 pt guy he used to be? Obviously not.

But a former captain stripped of the C and bought out a season later will almost certainly be a highly motivated guy looking to make an impact. Just speaks to his 800K deal and him wanted to be here, believing in this team, and wanting to lift us.

To someone elses point, I do feel Kane signs a Blake Wheeler 800K deal when healthy with us, full stop. Hopefully both hips are healthy this go around, because clearly those were a touch more of an issue than anticipated last season, which I would guess is why Jim Ramsay is no longer with org. Even then, Kane ranked below Panarin, Zibenajed, Lafreniere, Trocheck and about 7 other guys as who was the actual issue that led to our playoff demise last year.

All points aside, excited for this season. Think there is a ton of potential. Hope Panarin realizes this and doesn't waste in again on us, or else the next 3 years of his contract will all be wasted