Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXVII - Holding a Lead for Dummies (Info in OP)

[Machinehead]

Based on Edge's report my belief would be that prior to the election he was a relatively behaved individual who was more or less liked in the locker room despite relatively split political opinion differences, but that since the election he has constantly antagonized certain teammates about 1) the election results, and/or allegations of election fraud (this is a common theme I see among some of the out-there right wingers), 2) disparagement of BLM (this is another common theme among right wingers and would be backed up by the Heatley rumor of him yelling "Blue Lines Matter," at Kreider), and 3) other assorted political disagreements and/or personality conflict with Georgiev. The organization and the league know his history; his prior conflict just a week or so ago with Quinn reinforces his uncoachability, and then when he comes to blows with teammates for a dispute he is certainly at fault for (bringing antagonistic politics to work despite being told to knock it off), this seals the deal for him. As only 4 teams have cap room to claim him outright, in conjunction with his reputation being solidified as a problem personality, he will not be touched.

Based on the evidence we have available to us, that is my guess as to what happened.

I do not think there was any component of outright racism to this as that would have certainly alienated Miller from him but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Instead it's far more believable to me that he espoused views (for example, perhaps he called BLM a "terror organization," or something as I've heard conservatives do before) that are controversial and trigger some to levy accusations of racism where in fact it's really just political disagreement. I mean, a poster here a few minutes ago just said "Trumpism is racism," basically, so if that's your definition of racism then yes Tony is a racist and so are the 80-million or whatever who voted for him but I'm just not going to subscribe to that definition of racism, I would really need something way more overt than support of a political candidate over immigration policies or an opinion about marginalization of minorities by itself in order to conclude someone was a racist.

Bad news: this one is not innocuous. Like, it's just not. If you can't see that, there's no point discussing it further.

 

[Machinehead]

It’s pinned at the top of the page. If you need forensic evidence I don’t know what to tell you.

This seems to be the theme of the day.

 

[Machinehead]

You replied to my post below. It just happened minutes ago. Do you have a reading comprehension issue if you don't understand what I believe or not? Let me bold it for you.

So you are saying:

-He's a POS
-He has strong political views
-These views alienate his teammates

All things you just said.

And you think those views are innocuous and not bigoted in any way whatsoever? Do you see how that's far-fetched?

 

[mas0764]

Bad news: this one is not innocuous. Like, it's just not. If you can't see that, there's no point discussing it further.

Yeah I guess not.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It’s pinned at the top of the page. If you need forensic evidence I don’t know what to tell you.

we could have crystal clear video and people would claim its doctored/maniuplated media

 

[Tob]

Right.

And you seriously believe he was thrown off the team and subsequently not claimed for doing that?

you keep pushing for everyone to make conclusion beyond the evidence available and asking people to imagine how Tony could be a flagrant racist and bully and villain and probing the idea that it wouldn't be surprising if he was vile and frankly, we're just uninterested in doing that especially with the amount of false narratives and perverse targeting of Tony DeAngelo that's going around on social media to the extent K'andre Miller was type casted as a poor helpless victim of a racial targeting (which in and of itself a type of racial abuse by the people propagating this narrative instead of letting people treat K'andre like a hockey player and a person). We want the facts and for Tony to be removed from the team for being the distraction that he was and for his inability to keep his private political views out of the sanctity of the locker room. We all condemn him for his violent and agitating behavior and ultimately, Tony deserves to be waived and removed for his body of behavior.

 

[Fitzy]

We had to buy out a top 3 franchise player of all time to re-sign this guy. What a disaster.

Hindsight being 20-20 we should have kept Hank, he'd be on LTIR now, kept Fast, and sold ADA and Strome to the highest bidder, even if the offer was a 7th rounder.

 

[Kovalev27]

I think a lot of people see themselves in Tony DeAngelo, especially being from the area, good and bad. I know he reminds me of some of my best friends growing up in Long Island.

I think there are some that don’t like what they see in the mirror when it’s put in front of them in times like these so the natural instinct is to go on the defensive and I get that. But things do need to change and public figures like Tony DeAngelo will be the ones pointed at first to do so or be ostracized. He is his own worst enemy. He shined the light on himself. Again if this was a one time thing. I think it goes away easily but no one here can honestly say they didn’t see this coming for months and months. It got worse and worse and that’s just what we know. Never mind what was actually going on with his teammates and management

 

[Machinehead]

you keep pushing for everyone to make conclusion beyond the evidence available and asking people to imagine how Tony could be a flagrant racist and bully and villain and probing the idea that it wouldn't be surprising if he was vile and frankly, we're just uninterested in doing that especially with the amount of false narratives and perverse targeting of Tony DeAngelo that's going around on social media to the extent K'andre Miller was type casted as a poor helpless victim of a racial targeting (which in and of itself a type of racial abuse by the people propagating this narrative instead of letting people treat K'andre like a hockey player and a person). We want the facts and for Tony to be removed from the team for being the distraction that he was and for his inability to keep his private political views out of the sanctity of the locker room. We all condemn him for his violent and agitating behavior and ultimately, Tony deserves to be waived and removed for his body of behavior.

I know know what "evidence" you're looking for. Do you want fingerprints?

 

[NYRangers16]

Let me just conclude with this: "I don't do racism, I just say generally race-related things that I know will upset people, but it's just disagreement" is certainly a take.

Some “disagreements” are unacceptable. Again it goes back to character. People think free speech means no consequences. Free means you can speak it, not be free from judgement.

 

[DialUp]

I know he reminds me of some of my best friends growing up in Long Island.

And we know sure as shit a lot of our friends from LI (and Queens, BK for that matter) have made out to be rather "consistent" throughout their lives. Except this one is on a major NY sports team, during an extremely sensitive time in history.

 

[mas0764]

I said from the get-go I was skeptical of Herman. You can go back and look.

The argument being posited by some in this thread is that he was contributing to the discourse on race in America in a constructive and meaningful way, had a friendly political disagreement with some of his teammates over "immigration policy and police bias," because I'm sure that's what they do during intermission, and was *coincidentally* thrown off the team and claimed by no other team, because in addition to his friendly political debates that he holds after scrimmages, in which race is discussed civilly, he also happens to moonlight as a massive dickhead.

That's the exact scenario @mas0764 is implying played out.

I seriously want to know if you believe that.

FWIW I'm not implying he had a "friendly discourse on race in America in a constructive and meaningful way." I'm saying he brought it up in an uncivil, offensive and inappropriate way at work, but that way does not necessarily translate to racism; and that the reported decent relationship with Miller leads me to believe he was not being a racist. This would be in contrast to if he had previously (ie before he joined the Rangers) ever made racial slurs, but as a person he had seemed to be past those.

Obviously if Miller or any other evidence refuted that it was a political disagreement and that he was being actually racist towards Miller there would be zero supporting that whatsoever.

 

[Tob]

I know know what "evidence" you're looking for. Do you want fingerprints?

Most of what you consider evidence is just conjecture.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Based on Edge's report my belief would be that prior to the election he was a relatively behaved individual who was more or less liked in the locker room despite relatively split political opinion differences, but that since the election he has constantly antagonized certain teammates about 1) the election results, and/or allegations of election fraud (this is a common theme I see among some of the out-there right wingers), 2) disparagement of BLM (this is another common theme among right wingers and would be backed up by the Heatley rumor of him yelling "Blue Lines Matter," at Kreider), and 3) other assorted political disagreements and/or personality conflict with Georgiev. The organization and the league know his history; his prior conflict just a week or so ago with Quinn reinforces his uncoachability, and then when he comes to blows with teammates for a dispute he is certainly at fault for (bringing antagonistic politics to work despite being told to knock it off), this seals the deal for him. As only 4 teams have cap room to claim him outright, in conjunction with his reputation being solidified as a problem personality, he will not be touched.

Based on the evidence we have available to us, that is my guess as to what happened.

I do not think there was any component of outright racism to this as that would have certainly alienated Miller from him but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Instead it's far more believable to me that he espoused views (for example, perhaps he called BLM a "terror organization," or something as I've heard conservatives do before) that are controversial and trigger some to levy accusations of racism where in fact it's really just political disagreement. I mean, a poster here a few minutes ago just said "Trumpism is racism," basically, so if that's your definition of racism then yes Tony is a racist and so are the 80-million or whatever who voted for him but I'm just not going to subscribe to that definition of racism, I would really need something way more overt than support of a political candidate over immigration policies or an opinion about marginalization of minorities by itself in order to conclude someone was a racist. Tony does have past history of slurs so there is that which is pretty overt, but that's not what happened here it seems, it seems like this was political aggravation.

Bro Heatley is a meme account lmao he did not yell “blue lines matter” at Kreider

 

[Machinehead]

FWIW I'm not implying he had a "friendly discourse on race in America in a constructive and meaningful way." I'm saying he brought it up in an uncivil, offensive and inappropriate way at work, but that way does not necessarily translate to racism; and that the reported decent relationship with Miller leads me to believe he was not being a racist. This would be in contrast to if he had previously (ie before he joined the Rangers) ever made racial slurs, but as a person he had seemed to be past those.

Obviously if Miller or any other evidence refuted that it was a political disagreement and that he was being actually racist towards Miller there would be zero supporting that whatsoever.

This is just the "but I have a black friend" argument. Again, just insulting people's intelligence.

"He's not racist, he just brought up race in an uncivil, offensive, and inappropriate way."

 

[Machinehead]

Most of what you consider evidence is just conjecture.

Everything is conjecture except DNA and fingerprints.

 

[mas0764]

Bro Heatley is a meme account lmao he did not yell “blue lines matter” at Kreider

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[bleedblue94]

So getting back to actual roster stuff, has anyone reported next steps for NYR? buyout? termination? who is actually playing defense for us tonight?

I wish there was a separate thread for (necessary) social and ideological debates besides the roster building thread

 

[RGY]

Sooo can we now get this thread back on track. Can we all agree to move on?

Lets maybe discuss next moves for this roster.

Chytil is still out 4-6 weeks. Can we sign a cheap vet for depth here? Acquire one? Can we give this team full of youth as it is, a little more backbone?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Remember when his brother (and him via his podcast twitter account) were mocking beat writers in the replies when they suggested potential contracts for him this summer? Or when his podcast account kept retweeting guys who re-signed with the eyes and thinking emojii.

I specifically remember Vince doing a Q&A and addressing Tony's contract. He suggested something like 2 years 4m per as a bridge. and Louie D responded LMAOOOOOOOO

If these guys had the ability to self-reflect at all, they'd be so embarrassed.

 

[Tob]

Everything is conjecture except DNA and fingerprints.

Sounds to me like you're bringing up DNA and fingerprints to make us look like we're in denial instead of just presenting evidence.

 

[Machinehead]

Some “disagreements” are unacceptable. Again it goes back to character. People think free speech means no consequences. Free means you can speak it, not be free from judgement.

This is straight from @Edge:

"ADA has been increasingly vocal in the locker room about certain race and social issues and supposedly been making those comments very well known."

If you think that occurred not in an abusive way whatsoever, I just don't know what to say.

 

[Avery16]

If there's evidence of Deangelo choking Georgiev, I would think NYPD/DANY would at least investigate just to say that they did.

 

[Machinehead]

Sounds to me like you're bringing up DNA and fingerprints to make us look like we're in denial instead of just presenting evidence.

A vetted source told us his comments were about race issues. The comments that got him thrown off the roster. Those comments. The bad ones.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Sooo can we now get this thread back on track. Can we all agree to move on?

Lets maybe discuss next moves for this roster.

Chytil is still out 4-6 weeks. Can we sign a cheap vet for depth here? Acquire one? Can we give this team full of youth as it is, a little more backbone?

BIG BOYLE