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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXV - French disconnect in NYC?

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True Blue said:
Ok, I'll bite. How did he misuse Kakko and is currently misusing Lagreniere?
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I mean did you watch Kakko last season? I think that speaks for itself. Didn’t really seem to play to Kakko’s strength all season feels like he didn’t let him be as aggressive as he needed to be, especially with the on the puck on his stick all season.

Lafreniere inconsistent line mates and positioning. No points yet. Not good for a player who was supposed to be more NHL ready compared to his peers (like Kakko was considered). Lafreniere having a Kakko like rookie season would be very telling.

as I said Quinn seems so his his best with players that went through college. He hasn’t gotten the most out of the Europeans and Canadians yet.
 
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SA16 said:
Why do people hate depth? What if you traded ADA and Fox gets hurt? Now you're stuck with a massive downgrade in Trouba on PP1. This is the old "redundancy" argument which makes no sense as it is just an argument against having good players.
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I like depth. I hate wasted cap space.
 
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Anyone remember the Rangers of the late 90's/early 2000's.? I had partial season tickets and one game an entire section would be lamenting that "the team is not bad" but the Defense sucks". Rangers of cause lost 6-4.

Next game i went to the Rangers would lose 2-0. Of course the predictable "We have no high end talent that isn't broken down past their prime has beens!" But the defense "wasn't bad".

Next game Rangers lost 5-3 and the "goalie sucked" but team played decent.

All the while the bellows that John Muckler was too old, Ron Low was too stupid and Bryan Trottier was too inexperienced.

And some point we realized after listening to the "glass half full" post game interviews and "we just need to clean up this one area" only to have another part of the game shit the bed that...

The team just sucked. Because it was always something. Whats worse was that Christian Dube, Burke Henry, and Manny Malhotra were the future. Johan Asplund was a goalie to watch for.

I went to a Ranger training camp scrimmage in Rye in 95 i believe it was and they were plugging a guy named Bob Maudie to make a push. He was the worst player I have ever seen in a Ranger jersey. Dale Purintan made him look silly skill wise.

Better days ahead for sure.
 
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KreiderBomb said:
Give me a good team and ill show you a good coach, AV was almost run out of town because this team was on a downward spiral, now he is smart again i guess?
Maybe Quinn is or isn't the right guy but all the guys who did the most scoring for us last year look like they're playing pickup hockey so its hard to judge this team or this coach. If I'm moving on from Quinn its not for the reasons most are saying, system or misuse of the kids, ill move on from him to send a message to the vets that when you play like this someone loses their job, as I do get the idea that the players like Quinn as a person.
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Excellent post.

Look, I have stated that unless the wheels come completely off the bus, Quinn will be back next year. Are the wheels off the bus? No. If it continues exactly this way, will the wheels come off the bus? Of course. But I do not get the feeling that 6 or 10 or even 15 games is a sample size that will prove that. This all may change if they are 1-14-1.

I think that the real debates for now are 1) Can Allaire restore sanity to what is going on in the net? 2) Is what is going on with Panarin, Kreider, Strome & ZBad related to Quinn's coaching or are they just off to a too painful to the eye start?
 
Savant said:
I mean did you watch Kakko last season? I think that speaks for itself. Didn’t really seem to play to Kakko’s strength all season feels like he didn’t let him be as aggressive as he needed to be, especially with the on the puck on his stick all season.
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Yes and saw an 18 year old struggle, which frankly was not a shock at all.
Lafreniere inconsistent line mates and positioning. No points yet. Not good for a player who was supposed to be more NHL ready compared to his peers (like Kakko was considered). Lafreniere having a Kakko like rookie season would be very telling.
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There are some very serious factors that need be considered when judging Lafreniere's play early in the season.
as I said Quinn seems so his his best with players that went through college. He hasn’t gotten the most out of the Europeans and Canadians yet.
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How do you explain Buchnevich?
 
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Why isn't this in the roster building thread so it can get torn apart there with everything else
 
True Blue said:
Yes and saw an 18 year old struggle, which frankly was not a shock at all.

There are some very serious factors that need be considered when judging Lafreniere's play early in the season.

How do you explain Buchnevich?
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Buchnevich isn’t a kid anymore. He’s been around the block. Speaking of the block he has been consistently on it. If the Ranger have to deal him for cap reasons that’s another black mark of talent evaluation. For every Buchnevich there is a an Andersson.

Kakko struggled as 18 year old but he also underachieved. Kakko was supposed to be one of the most NHL ready rookies. We didn’t see that.

Lafreniere cannot have a Kakko like rookie season but he is literally in the middle of a historically bad point drought, and like Kakko has been shuffled across lines. Lafreniere is also being shuffled across positions. Not burying him by any means but again this was a supposedly NHL ready player who is underachieving.
 
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Savant said:
I like depth. I hate wasted cap space.
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And most teams would be thrilled to have Trouba as their backup PP QB

There's always going to be a downgrade when your top guy at any role goes down.
 
bleedblue94 said:
Have to get ada back on pp1, without that spot (and being effective there) his role on this team is limited at best as just a 3rd pair d man. ada on pp1 means fox has more mins to be played at even strength which is better for everyone.
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Its also better for moneyball reasons.

Fox gets slightly fewer points which should keep his big extension AAV down

ADA gets more points which ups his trade value for when he is inevitably dealt.
 
I really would like it if NYR would look into the cost for barrett hayton. kid is getting buried on the 4th like playing low minutes. This is a guy with top 6 center upside and he is playing 4th line wing. Wonder if there would be a way to pry him out of there...
 
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ADA to Philly was always my gut feeling

I'd take Frost (even though he's hurt now ) They have their top9C set with Patrick back. I would think Philly would be 'going for it'

ADA for Frost is a good starting point imo
 
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Savant said:
Buchnevich isn’t a kid anymore. He’s been around the block. Speaking of the block he has been consistently on it. If the Ranger have to deal him for cap reasons that’s another black mark of talent evaluation. For every Buchnevich there is a an Andersson.
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So he took all of these steps on his own with no help form the coaching staff? Seems like we want to assign blame and then not give any credit.

I also think that Andreson was a pretty special case.
Kakko struggled as 18 year old but he also underachieved. Kakko was supposed to be one of the most NHL ready rookies. We didn’t see that.
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So what? He struggled. There are rookies. Then there are 18 year old rookies (far from the norm). Then there are 18 year old rookies who traverse continents. That he struggled was disappointing but hardly shocking.
Lafreniere cannot have a Kakko like rookie season but he is literally in the middle of a historically bad point drought, and like Kakko has been shuffled across lines. Lafreniere is also being shuffled across positions. Not burying him by any means but again this was a supposedly NHL ready player who is underachieving.
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Kakko has for the most part settled in on the third line. Where Lafreniere was when the clamoring began to move him up. I agree that I would rather not have him shuffle through the lineup, but again, equating a 19 year old rookie who prior to camp has not played hockey in 10 months, then had only a two week camp with not a single exhibition game and equating those conditions with what all other rookies face is simply not fair.
 
duhmetreE said:
ADA to Philly was always my gut feeling

I'd take Frost (even though he's hurt now ) They have their top9C set with Patrick back. I would think Philly would be 'going for it'

ADA for Frost is a good starting point imo
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...for the Rangers. Don’t think the Flyers are doing that.

I kind of think you have to trade DeAngelo to a Canadian team
 
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I saw Dahlin's name unrealistically floated on the main board, curious how you guys would feel about a Kakko/Dahlin deal? It is unrealistic but how would people feel about it?
 
bleedblue94 said:
I really would like it if NYR would look into the cost for barrett hayton. kid is getting buried on the 4th like playing low minutes. This is a guy with top 6 center upside and he is playing 4th line wing. Wonder if there would be a way to pry him out of there...
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Because he's 20. Not because they don't value him.
 
Savant said:
...for the Rangers. Don’t think the Flyers are doing that.

I kind of think you have to trade DeAngelo to a Canadian team
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I don't think Gorton cares as long as it makes our team better in the future.
 
Savant said:
I like depth. I hate wasted cap space.
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Wasted cap space is buyouts, Jack Johnson, and bad players. It's not 5M for the 4th leading 5v5 scoring among dmen last year. Having two guys similar on PP1 is a good thing. It gives you insurance. If Tony scores 40 pts/year because he's playing PP2 as opposed to 55 if he was playing PP1 that doesn't make him any less valuable. The sum of him and Fox will remain roughly equivalent.
 
Chalfdiggity3 said:
I said it once, and ill say it again. Krieder and his contract are and will continue to hinder this team in the future. He should be playing 3rd line winger and yet he is making 6.5 over 7 more seasons.
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He has a very movable deal in 3-4 years. That’s considering what/ if there are cap increases, any emergence of our younger guys like Chytil, Bernard, etc maybe someone coming out of no where with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th rd pick?? With the foundation this team has on the wings, in net, and on D I think the front office really doesn’t want to commit to zibby long term. He can be streaky at times, is not a proven leader( put DJing before training in Ottawa until he matured a little), and he has a concussion history that would make them wary of a long term deal to say the least. JD and Gorts are watching the Eichel and Barkov situations very closely. The plan is to obtain 1 through trade or FA over resigning Zibby. You can take that to the bank. Eichel would cost a lot for sure, but if rangers keep stacking the cupboard it won’t hurt as bad as many think. Especially if he Demands out and the dressing room turns into a circus with an unhappy captain.
 
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