Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXV - French disconnect in NYC?

[NYRangers16]

My take: his loyalty in terms of ice time to veterans is disconnected by the reality of where this team is at in terms of development.

I’ll play devils advocate with myself though: How much of this is on him? We really don’t know what the mandate from JD/JG is.

But hey, it’s still early. It’s a frustrating stretch early in the season. We all should have been prepared for this. I’m still not convinced Quinn is prepared for this role. But at the same time we aren’t getting blown out. And DQ is trying to instill the right mindset/work ethic.

So :shrug: who knows.

 

[bobbop]

@bobbop any chance AZ changed their mind on Dvorak? Strome would be perfect in the desert

I'd honestly even take Derek Brassard

Unlikely

 

[bobbop]

Look, there are obvious coaching shortfalls. The constant line shuffles, the current inability to motivate veterans and the overall system deficiencies are obvious.

On the other hand, this is the youngest team in the league by almost a half year. The forward group doesn’t fit together nicely. There’s not one center who can be counted on to win a face off. And Smith and Johnson are ballast.

Quinn deserves a lot of scrutiny and pressure but he hasn’t been given a full deck to play with. Gorton needs a little more time to get the right pieces in order. This is still a rebuild.

 

[bobbop]

Also worth mentioning that Gerard Gallant (one of my favorite players) has been fired as a NHL coach 3X.

Nobody’s perfect.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I am not demanding Quinn be immediately ousted and I do think he’s done a good job with some of the kids. Buch for one, ADA for another.

But I simply refuse to believe that Kakko and Lafreniere, despite being billed as way above average for first/second overall picks, have to own their struggles and it’s all on them cause they need more time. I do not buy it. I do not buy that Lafreniere in year 1 and Kakko in year two do not look capable of approaching Svechnikov’s 0.45 ppg pace in his own rookie year. Lafreniere has a goose egg. Kakko has 2 points in six games but they are two one-timer goals and he does not really control the puck or the play in the offensive zone yet and it was supposed to be his specialty. He does not look electric at all. I do not believe that these two guys are just whiffs on expectations. There is SOMETHING that the staff isn’t doing right with these kids. In conjunction with Kravtsov and Andersson it becomes more apparent; there is probably something off with what they are asking of these kids. Youth dominates the league like at no other time, I do not buy that Kakko wasn’t ready to look like Svechnikov. Not after I see it repeating with Lafreniere.

thats what i've been saying. Something is rotten in the state of New York

 

[kovazub94]

I know the hate I will get for this but I might be the only one who thinks that Adam Fox is good, but not as great as people make him out to be just yet. Yes he does make some good plays with the puck but he does make a good amount of bone headed plays like fanning on passes and hanging on to the puck for too long. Kind of reminds me of a D version of Kevin Hayes in that regard. He is still our best overall RD at the moment but I’d take Miller over him right now.

Not only Fox is currently the best defenseman on the Rangers this season and was the same last year, he actually looked BETTER so far than last season. So yeah, you're probably the only one.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Torts was the fiery idiot whose teams had to play defense because he couldn’t develop an offensive plan ( those groans grew louder with the use of Gaborik and then Nash). Along the way he destroyed our roster with his diving on the puck strategies, despite having the best goalie in the world.

AV was the smug idiot who inherited a roster from Torts and had people claiming we made it to the finals in spite of him, not because of him. So those snipes starter 2014/15 timeframe.

In the 23 years I’ve been here, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach stay in the board’s good graces much beyond the second season.

Meanwhile, anything being done about Dunn?

 

[RGY]

Gallant likely has his shortcomings too. No coach is perfect. But sometimes you just need a shake up with the coaching staff. There have been too many instances where this team just has not looked ready to play. Not enough jump in their game. They dont have that relentless effort, buzzing around the ice. So, it comes down to the coach. And frankly, I do not see Quinn as the guy to get us to that next level.

 

[pld459666]

I am not demanding Quinn be immediately ousted and I do think he’s done a good job with some of the kids. Buch for one, ADA for another.

But I simply refuse to believe that Kakko and Lafreniere, despite being billed as way above average for first/second overall picks, have to own their struggles and it’s all on them cause they need more time. I do not buy it. I do not buy that Lafreniere in year 1 and Kakko in year two do not look capable of approaching Svechnikov’s 0.45 ppg pace in his own rookie year. Lafreniere has a goose egg. Kakko has 2 points in six games but they are two one-timer goals and he does not really control the puck or the play in the offensive zone yet and it was supposed to be his specialty. He does not look electric at all. I do not believe that these two guys are just whiffs on expectations. There is SOMETHING that the staff isn’t doing right with these kids. In conjunction with Kravtsov and Andersson it becomes more apparent; there is probably something off with what they are asking of these kids. Youth dominates the league like at no other time, I do not buy that Kakko wasn’t ready to look like Svechnikov. Not after I see it repeating with Lafreniere.

But, but, but they are becoming better 200 foot players....SMH

These kids need to continue their offensive development and learn the defensive side of the game later when they mature a bit.

I'd staple Laf to Mika's LW and KK to his RW move CK to the LW on the 3rd line.

The instructions to that line would be simply. SCORE GOALS.

There would be no juggling.

AL - MZ - KK
AP - RS - PB
CK - FC - PDG (until VK arrives)
BL - BH - CB

 

[DutchShamrock]

My impression of Quinn is he is in over his head and coaching for his life. And the second part is basically the reality of every head coach's life. The results of coaching afraid probably clashes with the fantasies of fans more than any thing.

He would rather gamble on Staal or Johnson because of their experience, instead of letting Hajek or another unproven piece learn by making mistakes. Muzzle Lemieux because staying off the PK is more palatable than a momentum changing hit or a chippy atmosphere. Harp on mistakes with the rookies because you're afraid of turnovers more than you like shot attempts.

I'm the furthest thing from in the know. But they look disjointed and hampered by over thinking. Lafreniere developed a habit of passing while in prime scoring position. The lack of confidence is prevailent with the young guys, and I'm biased but it feels a little stronger this year. They are unable to play as a unit.

Maybe with more time they get in the same page and develop confidence. I think Quinn should loosen the grip on the reins. Let them play hockey and think less.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

My impression of Quinn is he is in over his head and coaching for his life. And the second part is basically the reality of every head coach's life. The results of coaching afraid probably clashes with the fantasies of fans more than any thing.

He would rather gamble on Staal or Johnson because of their experience, instead of letting Hajek or another unproven piece learn by making mistakes. Muzzle Lemieux because staying off the PK is more palatable than a momentum changing hit or a chippy atmosphere. Harp on mistakes with the rookies because you're afraid of turnovers more than you like shot attempts.

I'm the furthest thing from in the know. But they look disjointed and hampered by over thinking. Lafreniere developed a habit of passing while in prime scoring position. The lack of confidence is prevailent with the young guys, and I'm biased but it feels a little stronger this year. They are unable to play as a unit.

Maybe with more time they get in the same page and develop confidence. I think Quinn should loosen the grip on the reins. Let them play hockey and think less.

They all look out of shape tbh... maybe the strength and conditioning guys need to go.

 

[bleedblue94]

If the Rangers are not in a solid playoff position in a month they need to be sellers again.

respectfully disagree.

 

[BBKers]

Fox is great. Amazing. But I would still put ADA ON PP1 for a while. and add Buch. Strome, Laf, KK, Fox and Miller on PP2

 

[Edge]

The Rangers are still a NHL team. They need to do both. Quinn can’t hold this job if he can only focus on one age group at a time. There is still no NHL system in place, there is no identity with the team and it shows almost every night. It’s a problem.

I’m not particularly disagreeing on those points. I just think his approach with youth probably isn’t on the list of complaints at this point.

 

[bleedblue94]

He's played 4 whole games this season..3 with Jack Johnson...

He played a season with a partner with one eye who was horrible as well. If you want to commit big money and term to a player then that's not the kind of player you can make excuses for consistently. He cant defend, so his value to the team is offense, breakouts, transition, and pp. The coaching staff is clearly making a move to attempt to replace him on the pp, and he has not been good in any of those other facets. If he is making 2-3mil that is one thing you can deal with it all, but committing the type of contract others advocated for on here means a player needs to be a positive influence and contributor on a team even when his game is not at its top level.

Somehow we can all kill strome but ada gets a pass from his fan club. Both are struggling, both are getting paid as more than fringe players, both need to contribute in some way to the team success when their games aren't at their peak, yet strome gets crucified and ada has people still advocating for him to get a long term deal.

 

[bleedblue94]

It's early in the season, lol. High chances are, he will rebound.

It would have still been a good move to lock him up that long at a cheaper deal, but alas, what's done is done.

and if you do that and last year was his peak then what are you doing with that contract?

 

[Ruggs225]

respectfully disagree.

who are we selling? Smith, johnaon and strome?

that will net us a a nice mid round pick

edit. Sorry quoted the wrong post

 

[bleedblue94]

Fox is great. Amazing. But I would still put ADA ON PP1 for a while. and add Buch. Strome, Laf, KK, Fox and Miller on PP2

Have to get ada back on pp1, without that spot (and being effective there) his role on this team is limited at best as just a 3rd pair d man. ada on pp1 means fox has more mins to be played at even strength which is better for everyone.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

respectfully disagree.

He’s not wrong. Short season and all in division games means of that was the scenario they’d have slim to no chance at making playoffs. They have slim chance as it is right now. Too much ground to cover.

 

[bleedblue94]

He’s not wrong. Short season and all in division games means of that was the scenario they’d have slim to no chance at making playoffs. They have slim chance as it is right now. Too much ground to cover.

What are you going to sell?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I’m not particularly disagreeing on those points. I just think his approach with youth probably isn’t on the list of complaints at this point.

Of the players that actually look good at this point, not many if any are the older players, chytil, fox, miller, Kakko have been our better players this far in the season so im with you on this one that if he is to be canned its not because he can't work with the kids. I look at Lafreniere like i looked at Miller the first game, nervous and defering to veteran players, the last couple games ive seen him a little more comfortable, he is inching in the right direction imo and he's been a scorer all his life. Right now the points arent there and i see him trying not to do something wrong because he isn't scoring, once he's comfortable on the ice and with his place on the team he's gonna be dynamic imo. He just needs to get passed the "do what i can to fit in and not make mistakes" part of his game. He's not far off imo, getting Mika moving would be huge to taking some pressure off him and letting him feed off him for a bit.

 

[LORDE]

He played a season with a partner with one eye who was horrible as well. If you want to commit big money and term to a player then that's not the kind of player you can make excuses for consistently. He cant defend, so his value to the team is offense, breakouts, transition, and pp. The coaching staff is clearly making a move to attempt to replace him on the pp, and he has not been good in any of those other facets. If he is making 2-3mil that is one thing you can deal with it all, but committing the type of contract others advocated for on here means a player needs to be a positive influence and contributor on a team even when his game is not at its top level.

Somehow we can all kill strome but ada gets a pass from his fan club. Both are struggling, both are getting paid as more than fringe players, both need to contribute in some way to the team success when their games aren't at their peak, yet strome gets crucified and ada has people still advocating for him to get a long term deal.

I get your overall point but comparing Strome and ADA Is tough (not just positionally) but Strome has been nothing short of atrocious (his lucky ass goal aside).

ADA has been bad but not Strome BRUTAL and ADA sat for 2 games where Strome was constant flaming garbage in those as well. Had ADA played maybe I'd be saying the same about him lol

 

[bleedblue94]

I get your overall point but comparing Strome and ADA Is tough (not just positionally) but Strome has been nothing short of atrocious (his lucky ass goal aside).

ADA has been bad but not Strome BRUTAL and ADA sat for 2 games where Strome was constant flaming garbage in those as well. Had ADA played maybe I'd be saying the same about him lol

I get everything you are saying, BUT if ada had his big long term contract where would that put things. As I said in another post he HAS to be on pp1 for whatever team he is on, because he is not going to eat up 5v5 minutes, and on this team it makes even more sense bc it allows fox to eat more 5v5 mins by playing less on pp. That being said, I am not comparing strome and ada play per say, but their utility to this team when they aren't being affective. Strome is not an asset if he isn't clicking with panarin, ada is not an asset when he isn't driving the pp. One is disposable, the other we have people advocating still to give a long term contract to. You dont give those contracts to players that are limited to only being affective if their game is clicking. Fox can struggle and still be a positive asset to the team. I would also argue Lindgren is a guy I would be more comfortable giving a long term deal to than ada (NOT at the same dollar amount obviously) bc even if his game is not entirely clicking he can still be a positive asset to the team eating 5v5 mins and killing pims

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What are you going to sell?

Oh I was just talking about the fact that if we were in that scenario there’s no way we’d be making playoffs. I agree there is not much left to sell at this point. Maybe Tony.

 

[Ola]

Torts was the fiery idiot whose teams had to play defense because he couldn’t develop an offensive plan ( those groans grew louder with the use of Gaborik and then Nash). Along the way he destroyed our roster with his diving on the puck strategies, despite having the best goalie in the world.

AV was the smug idiot who inherited a roster from Torts and had people claiming we made it to the finals in spite of him, not because of him. So those snipes starter 2014/15 timeframe.

In the 23 years I’ve been here, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach stay in the board’s good graces much beyond the second season.

Yeah but now you are looking at this from the perspective of if a coach has unanimous support from the entire board. You can be here another 23 years and that will never happen. I bet there is someone at this place that hates K'Andre Miller right now because they thrashed him in some draft ranking or whatever. This board will never totally agree on a topic like this.

In general -- I think the populist coach that makes the roster decisions the fans want will suck. In general I think the fans probably are a pretty worthless indicator of how well a coach does.

But with that said, I also want to add that there have been some periods where this team has been really mismanaged. Hockey is exactly where at Baseball was before "Moneyball", but for hockey there is no quick fix since its harder to analyze than Baseball. You need someone that "gets it", and its far from a given that someone in a big role for a NHL team will get it, just like many in Baseball didn't.

There are no "right way". But you must have a working process that ensures that you stay on top of things and impact the things you can impact, while not exposing yourself anywhere. Few got that.