Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXV - French disconnect in NYC?

[Savant]

I don't understand. Demoted where? 5v5 offense and 5v4 offense are not that correlated. There are a lot of good 5v4 players who are not good players at 5v5. His offense has not been there in four games. It is also irrelevant because it is four games.

Demoted from PP1 to PP2 silly. I think 5v5 correlation to 5v4 is closer than correlation from 5v4 to 5v5

 

[SA16]

Demoted from PP1 to PP2 silly. I think 5v5 correlation to 5v4 is closer than correlation from 5v4 to 5v5

He didn't get demoted from PP1 to PP2 because of poor play. He got benched for one game for behavioral issues. He didn't play a second game because the coach didn't want to change the lineup after a 5-0 win. The PP scored 3 goals in the two games he didn't play so Quinn kept the units the same unit since it worked (and they have 1 PPG in 3 games since).

 

[Savant]

He didn't get demoted from PP1 to PP2 because of poor play. He got benched for one game for behavioral issues. He didn't play a second game because the coach didn't want to change the lineup after a 5-0 win. The PP scored 3 goals in the two games he didn't play so Quinn kept the units the same unit since it worked (and they have 1 PPG in 3 games since).

So he got demoted?

 

[SA16]

So he got demoted?

Sure. But if you can't understand that there is a large difference in being demoted because of poor play and because of a disciplinary issue or injury I don't know what to tell you. You already know this coach is a "stick with what works" kind of guy. Once it goes a stretch without scoring they will switch back as that is what Quinn has shown us he does over the last 2+ years.

 

[Savant]

Sure. But if you can't understand that there is a large difference in being demoted because of poor play and because of a disciplinary issue or injury I don't know what to tell you. You already know this coach is a "stick with what works" kind of guy. Once it goes a stretch without scoring they will switch back as that is what Quinn has shown us he does over the last 2+ years.

I don’t think Quinn is an anything kind of guy.

 

[SA16]

I don’t think Quinn is an anything kind of guy.

Then maybe you haven't been watching the games the last two years or aren't objective enough to understand what you are watching. It is relatively obvious a major part of Quinn's philosophy is to ride his top players as much as he can and to not change things that are currently working.

 

[Savant]

Then maybe you haven't been watching the games the last two years or aren't objective enough to understand what you are watching. It is relatively obvious a major part of Quinn's philosophy is to ride his top players as much as he can and to not change things that are currently working.

No that’s not it. I just don’t agree. If you are saying Quinn can only do one function at a time, then that’s closer to a compromise.

 

[Fitzy]

Then maybe you haven't been watching the games the last two years or aren't objective enough to understand what you are watching. It is relatively obvious a major part of Quinn's philosophy is to ride his top players as much as he can and to not change things that are currently working.

I agree with the first part of your assessment.

The second though- he's been juggling lines like mad this year. We had pretty consistent lines and units last season but it's been musical chairs so far this year.

This could of course be written up to the fact that we've been losing all the games and so 'sticking with what works' isn't really a viable option

 

[SA16]

No that’s not it. I just don’t agree. If you are saying Quinn can only do one function at a time, then that’s closer to a compromise.

What do you not agree with? Quinn said out loud after the 5-0 win that Tony would miss another game because the team played well and he didn't want to change what was working. He basically did not change the lines all year last year because they were working. Kreider Zibanejad Buchnevich and Panarin Strome Fast. Once they got to that it didn't change. This year it hasn't worked so he's juggled it a bit more.

One of the things I think he said to one of the guys when [the second game] ended was, ‘I kind of know what’s going to happen now. It’s going to be tough to take anyone out of the lineup.’ ” ... “Tony understood the situation. It was not my intention for it to be a two-game situation,” Quinn said. “He knows that, and we’ve had conversations regarding that. He’s ready to move past it. I’m ready to move past it. He’s learned from it.https://nypost.com/2021/01/22/david-quinn-reinserts-tony-deangelo-into-rangers-lineup/

 

[bobbop]

I wonder what Bobbop thinks on him ? The kid has only played about one seasons worth of games in the last 2+ years....progressed well in junior I assume until hurt? ....numbers were increasing .

Real puzzle here. Hayton hasn't shown a great deal in Arizona but still has a ton of potential. I am almost certain he is not available unless you want to flip a big name young player for him.

 

[RGY]

No shot in hell would i let Drury interview for the Pens job.

 

[jay from jersey]

Moveable in 3-4 years? I really hope so but if he continues to play the way we know he plays, this will end up being an attached 2nd round pick just to move his ugly contract. He is into his houdini ways of appearing for a few games then disappearing for 10 games. If people dont think that his play will continue to be the same or get worse in a year or two then they are dreaming. His contract will be difficult to move.

What does the rest have to do with Krieders contract?

Yes we will have alot of dead cap space coming off the books, but the cap IS going to stay the same for the next 3 years. Also we will NEED that cap in order to resign players like Chytl, Buch, Fox, Lindgren, Laf, Kakko.

Losing Zibs would suck but if we got a guy like Eichel or Barkov, they will be making around 10m a year which is a big increase on Zibs contract numbers. So again we need to find the cap space. Keeping Krieder is and will continue to hinder this team long term. Horrible signing when it happened and it will be the signing that everyone is going to regret bc we will HAVE to buy him out or add an asset to him to move that contract.

Kreids is what he is at this point. He’s basically a physical force with speed and net front presence that will always leave you wanting more. The cap will most likely be the same but it’s not definite. And if they swing a deal for Eichel/Barkov. Zibby and stormes salary would cover the brunt. Kreids is basically a faster version of Van reimedyk and will most likely stay the same til he’s 35 before you see a decline. 6.5 is not immovable. Never know what the future holds

 

[Avery16]

You can leave Columbus but you'll still be in Torts' mind

 

[JCProdigy]

I agree with the first part of your assessment.

The second though- he's been juggling lines like mad this year. We had pretty consistent lines and units last season but it's been musical chairs so far this year.

This could of course be written up to the fact that we've been losing all the games and so 'sticking with what works' isn't really a viable option

Also it really can't be understated that there were no preseason games this year while in years past there have been 6-7.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Friedman saying on Hockey Central today that Pitt has serious interest in Drury for the GM job.

It’s gonna cost them a first round pick.

 

[mas0764]

Why do people hate depth? What if you traded ADA and Fox gets hurt? Now you're stuck with a massive downgrade in Trouba on PP1. This is the old "redundancy" argument which makes no sense as it is just an argument against having good players.

Didn’t Trouba score 50 points as the lead defenseman on the PP in Winnipeg? Not sure that’s a “massive” downgrade.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Nice to have Lafreniere and Blackwell trend on Twitter for the right reasons and not Jack Johnson for the wrong reasons

 

[ZiGOODejad]

No shot in hell would i let Drury interview for the Pens job.

Completely agree on this.

 

[Ola]

Regarding Blackwell

• Sound defensive player
• Tenacious on the forecheck
• Underrated offensively

Not a PK specialist, but a trust worthy player.

Reminds me of someone...

Just read the Blackwell thread, so many great reads by fans who knew him before we got him. I didn't even know who he was. But I do not for a second think that this is really coming as a big surprise for whomever in our organization who discovered him and pushed for us to get him inked. I think its the opposite.

This is what a good pro scouting organization should be able to do once in a while. I've been calling our pro scouting out for a while, but this is one they really got right. Not to overhype Blackwell -- but he does bring us exactly what we need. What works in the game today. He makes a difference when he is on the ice, maybe not because that he is a better "player" than other guys that have been played before him, but he really provides a lot in areas we have been really weak in.

This move really provides hopes for the future. And I really hope that the organization as a whole can gain some confidence from it. I mean, Blackwell is valuable to us right now, its perfectly possible that there are 20 organizations out there to which he wouldn't be as valuable because they already have other players that fits his mold and lacks in other areas than we do. As a consequence -- these guys become available from time to time. You can't find depth for free that has everything, but you can certainly find players that are able to perform in a role cut out for them, that haven't performed elsewhere because they never got that opportunity.

What I really want to see more of is management acknowledging issues we have on the roster and fixing what needs to be fixed, even if it won't work out everytime, the alternative -- pretending that it doesn't rain -- won't either.

Definitely provides hope for the future.

 

[Ola]

And its not just Blackwell that is playing well, so is Rooney, PDG and co too. We need that, we need to be able to provide a supporting cast for the kids that can provide what they need.

 

[Kocur Dill]

And its not just Blackwell that is playing well, so is Rooney, PDG and co too. We need that, we need to be able to provide a supporting cast for the kids that can provide what they need.

Just read the Blackwell thread, so many great reads by fans who knew him before we got him. I didn't even know who he was. But I do not for a second think that this is really coming as a big surprise for whomever in our organization who discovered him and pushed for us to get him inked. I think its the opposite.

This is what a good pro scouting organization should be able to do once in a while. I've been calling our pro scouting out for a while, but this is one they really got right. Not to overhype Blackwell -- but he does bring us exactly what we need. What works in the game today. He makes a difference when he is on the ice, maybe not because that he is a better "player" than other guys that have been played before him, but he really provides a lot in areas we have been really weak in.

This move really provides hopes for the future. And I really hope that the organization as a whole can gain some confidence from it. I mean, Blackwell is valuable to us right now, its perfectly possible that there are 20 organizations out there to which he wouldn't be as valuable because they already have other players that fits his mold and lacks in other areas than we do. As a consequence -- these guys become available from time to time. You can't find depth for free that has everything, but you can certainly find players that are able to perform in a role cut out for them, that haven't performed elsewhere because they never got that opportunity.

What I really want to see more of is management acknowledging issues we have on the roster and fixing what needs to be fixed, even if it won't work out everytime, the alternative -- pretending that it doesn't rain -- won't either.

Definitely provides hope for the future.

And its not just Blackwell that is playing well, so is Rooney, PDG and co too. We need that, we need to be able to provide a supporting cast for the kids that can provide what they need.

Forgettable players like Mike Hudson and Brian Noonan were important as well, because that 94 squad was so strong. They made a big impact in the bottom 6 that year too.

Having a deep bench and role players that pull their weight reinforces the star players own psyche during their own rough patches, so they don't get grip-the-stick syndrome from the weight of trying to carry the entire team by themselves, every minute of every game.

 

[duhmetreE]

Imagine trading for Sidney Crosby

 

[duhmetreE]

You can leave Columbus but you'll still be in Torts' mind

PLD is where Buch was, 2-3 years ago.

I honestly didn't think Buch would turn it around the way he did. Not all the players do. I thought he was destined for the KHL...

BUT we all know when and how it changed.....

 

[RGY]

It’s gonna cost them a first round pick.

Lol do they have any left? Figured Rutherford traded them all...

 

[Mikos87]

And its not just Blackwell that is playing well, so is Rooney, PDG and co too. We need that, we need to be able to provide a supporting cast for the kids that can provide what they need.

All the guys trying to make a name for themselves are giving more effort- especially up-front, the walk year guys- Buchie, Smitty, Digi, Chytil, and the guys who haven't established themselves in Rooney & Blackwell. This is not a good sign, especially when you are trying to build a winning culture. Inexperienced players being positionally lost, hey you can live with that. But the stationary perimeter play, trying to win by doing the least as possible... that screams 97-04 era.

That shit is noticeable, and the type of play that gets you a hardass. That consequence is far more grueling on the body and quality of life for a player than moving your feet to help your teammate drive the play today.

Think what we are seeing is a list of passengers and drivers. While the individual flashes are a neat little 10 second clip, you want to see a bus full of drivers pushing the play for a full 60 minutes.

They're going to need to drive bodies in motion towards the net, teams are boxing things out in the perimeter because they know that's where they'd rather be.