Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXVIII

[NYSPORTS]

He didn't stick us with the cap hit. He signed a contract and the Rangers wanted out of it. The Rangers decided to move on and take the hit. Hank still wants to play. If he had gotten bought our and then retired so we were stick with it, then yeah, blame Hank. This is on our front office

Hank had plenty of opportunity to waive his NTC after the letter to the fans went out. It was ridiculous for the kids to dress around him last season.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Hank had plenty of opportunity to waive his NTC after the letter to the fans went out. It was ridiculous for the kids to dress around him last season.

The ntc that he also earned and negotiated in his contract? I get the dislike for Hank choosing to go to Washington but everything up to that moment doesn't bother me.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The ntc that he also earned and negotiated in his contract? I get the dislike for Hank choosing to go to Washington but everything up to that moment doesn't bother me.

i don’t care that he went to Washington. Had he waived his NTC and gone after the Cup i wouldn’t have cared either b/c the Rangers made it clear they were rebuilding. Now Hank claims, at his age he only wants to win lol, yet he never waived his NTC so he could win. So the Rangers had not choice but to buy him out. As a fan i can laugh at it much like i laughed at the Eli Manning debacle.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not necessarily.

Center is the most important position in hockey and yet the only position that we aren’t really insured against for injury or bust.

I think many have an emotional attachment to Zibanejad, which is fine on the surface, but they actually look for ways to prevent the team from making a move that might end up replacing him.

Center needs to be addressed in the system. And what’s more, it’s about to get quite hard to do so because starting probably this year they are not getting any more lottery picks organically for a while.

You can say “it will be addressed,” and maybe it will be, but it sure would have been nice to add 2 top-6 ish center prospects to the pipeline before we left easy striking distance to obtain them. Even if Chytil is one, I think at least one if not two more prospects would be warranted to guard against Chytil not panning out and Zibanejad injury.

In that sense I think it would have been really wise to cash in some assets to try to get up for Lundell this draft; but who knows if that was an option.

I retain some hope that we will parlay assets like Strome and Buch into assets we could use to obtain young centers, before they lose value/depart in free agency (which is where they are both eventually headed). But at this point they are gonna be sweeteners instead of the main components. It’s a lot harder now that we will not have top 10 picks at our disposal. As much as I love DeAngelo this is why it might have made sense to deal him for a prospect package that included a guy like Krebs or Glass.... potential top line (1B) centers.

Not you toooooo.

This myth needs to die. Good players are important, but it doesn't matter where they play.

 

[kovazub94]

Hank had plenty of opportunity to waive his NTC after the letter to the fans went out. It was ridiculous for the kids to dress around him last season.

So much unwarranted entitlement in this post.

Did you stop to consider that being a lifetime Ranger was Hank’s main motivation toward the end of his career, SC be damned? Being bought out was ALL front office doing (buyouts, new signings) and a bit of bad luck due to circumstances that forced a flat cap onto everyone. Once this offseason arrived the writing was on a wall (there was no trade out there a la Staal’s) and Lundqvist has absolutely all rights to make the best of the situation. Or did you expect him to go to Arizona or some other god forsaken place (sorry @bobbop) so you can forget about him?

 

[NYR]

Not you toooooo.

This myth needs to die. Good players are important, but it doesn't matter where they play.

Bullshit.. Center IS the most important position

 

[Machinehead]

Bullshit.. Center IS the most important position

It can be, but I think there's a big "but" (big but lol).

Centers have to offer the thing we usually associate with centers, which is two-way play. A 200-foot winger is more valuable than a center who sucks defensively.

The best example of this is a recent Draisaitl vs Panarin poll on the main boards. While I think there's a viable argument for Draisaitl, many posters regurgitated the "becoz he's a center" trope.

So what? Panarin is a very good defensive winger and Draisaitl is absolutely one of the worst defensive players in the NHL at any position. So, in this scenario, what value does being a center add?

 

[bl02]

How much is Chara asking for? term?
How much better would it have been to have him instead of JJ?
Chara with ADA. Nasty like no ones business. Like the Bad boys Pistons on ice.
I know he's not the same Chara he used to be but would have been interesting to take a look at him vs JJ.

 

[Machinehead]

How much is Chara asking for? term?
How much better would it have been to have him instead of JJ?
Chara with ADA. Nasty like no ones business. Like the Bad boys Pistons on ice.
I know he's not the same Chara he used to be but would have been interesting to take a look at him vs JJ.

I advocated kicking the tires on Chara a couple of weeks back and I got met with pitchforks and torches "because old."

Like the center thing, age also gets applied without any context. I'll take 52-year-old Brian Leetch over Jack Johnson right now. When Chara dies he'll be better than Jack Johnson.

 

[NYR]

It can be, but I think there's a big "but" (big but lol).

Centers have to offer the thing we usually associate with centers, which is two-way play. A 200-foot winger is more valuable than a center who sucks defensively.

The best example of this is a recent Draisaitl vs Panarin poll on the main boards. While I think there's a viable argument for Draisaitl, many posters regurgitated the "becoz he's a center" trope.

So what? Panarin is a very good defensive winger and Draisaitl is absolutely one of the worst defensive players in the NHL at any position. So, in this scenario, what value does being a center add?

Nope..
Offensive draws
Defensive draws
Breakouts
Cycling
These are only just few things that make the foundation of hockey and they all revolve around the center.
I'm too tired to go into much more detail but when are people going to stop trying to reinvent the f***ing wheel already?
Craziness!

 

[Machinehead]

Nope..
Offensive draws
Defensive draws
Breakouts
Cycling
These are only just few things that make the foundation of hockey and they all revolve around the center.
I'm too tired to go into much more detail but when are people going to stop trying to reinvent the f***ing wheel already?
Craziness!

Ok, but if the guy is fried ass defensively, he evidently isn't good at draws, breakouts, or cycling.

Defense doesn't just fall from the sky, it's made up of everything you mentioned. Panarin is "good defensively" because once he gets the puck, it's going 200 feet the other way.

 

[NYSPORTS]

So much unwarranted entitlement in this post.

Did you stop to consider that being a lifetime Ranger was Hank’s main motivation toward the end of his career, SC be damned? Being bought out was ALL front office doing (buyouts, new signings) and a bit of bad luck due to circumstances that forced a flat cap onto everyone. Once this offseason arrived the writing was on a wall (there was no trade out there a la Staal’s) and Lundqvist has absolutely all rights to make the best of the situation. Or did you expect him to go to Arizona or some other god forsaken place (sorry @bobbop) so you can forget about him?

The front office didn’t have a choice b/c Hank never waived his NTC. He was asked if he wanted out, he said no. He could have been moved to contender for years. The whole roster was moved out besides Mark Staal and kids were playing around a dressed Hank who rode the bench. Shes then Georgiev. Don’t move Hank, they’ll dress around you.

Now, now lol he claims at this point in career it’s all about winning? Let’s call it what it was. He had a contract and refused to leave. Yeah, he loved the Rangers and the feeling was mutual but don’t sell me this “all i want to do is win” when he never waived his NTC during a rebuild which is about kids who lose until they learn to win. And make no mistake, he was banking on the Rangers trading Georgiev.

 

[kovazub94]

The front office didn’t have a choice b/c Hank never waived his NTC. He was asked if he wanted out, he said no. He could have been moved to contender for years. The whole roster was moved out besides Mark Staal and kids were playing around a dressed Hank who rode the bench.

Now, now lol he claims at this point in career it’s all about winning? Let’s call it what it was. He had a contract and refused to leave. Yeah, he loved the Rangers and feeling was mutual but sell me this “all i want to do is win” when a rebuild is about kids who lose until they learn to win.

Prior to this offseason he was asked if he wanted to go to a contender as opposed to sticking around through the rebuild. Hank wanted to stay. Scenario with being bought out only came about this offseason (maybe midway through last season). Not before. I don’t know what’s so difficult to understand.

 

[NYSPORTS]

How much is Chara asking for? term?
How much better would it have been to have him instead of JJ?
Chara with ADA. Nasty like no ones business. Like the Bad boys Pistons on ice.
I know he's not the same Chara he used to be but would have been interesting to take a look at him vs JJ.

thought about him too. Bruins fans claim he has nothing left. Not sure it’s time for a Chara. Although come playoff time, i bet the Rangers would look for one.

 

[Vitto79]

Bullshit.. Center IS the most important position

Would you rather have Hughes over Kakko?
On paper would it balance the roster out better ?

 

[bl02]

I advocated kicking the tires on Chara a couple of weeks back and I got met with pitchforks and torches "because old."

Like the center thing, age also gets applied without any context. I'll take 52-year-old Brian Leetch over Jack Johnson right now. When Chara dies he'll be better than Jack Johnson.

Not sure what he's asking for but if management would have been a bit more patient than we definitely could have thought about Chara. Now it seems like a no go for sure. Not only is he way better than JJ but probably one of the best locker room guys there is.

 

[Avery16]

 

[NYR]

Ok, but if the guy is fried ass defensively, he evidently isn't good at draws, breakouts, or cycling.

Defense doesn't just fall from the sky, it's made up of everything you mentioned. Panarin is "good defensively" because once he gets the puck, it's going 200 feet the other way.

Systems are designed first and foremost around centers.
You won't have a strong defense or any kind of competent strategy without having strong center depth.

We don't currently have those centers to execute the (so called) system but that's another story..Yet here we are..

Now you know why I complain about wanting a 4th line center all the time lol

 

[NYSPORTS]

Prior to this offseason he was asked if he wanted to go to a contender as opposed to sticking around through the rebuild. Hank wanted to stay. Scenario with being bought out only came about this offseason (maybe midway through last season). Not before. I don’t know what’s so difficult to understand.

yeah, he didn’t want to go. The Rangers have spoke to him over the years. The Rangers wanted him out. It’s a rebuild. Did you see him ride the bench the final 19 games? The moment they were eliminated JD told him we will not go with three goalies. This didn’t just happen overnight. Like Eli Manning, Hank is done and it was only his contract keeping him here. Big Hank fan, big Eli fan, big fan of many but when it’s time to go it’s time to go. I cheer for the players on my team but i don’t applaud dragging the obvious on and on which hurts the team despite what a contract reads.

 

[NYR]

Would you rather have Hughes over Kakko?
On paper would it balance the roster out better ?

That's not really a fair or relevant question.

I like Kakko a lot and that was the #2 pick as he should've been.

It still doesn't address why we haven't had solid center depth since BB has been here..

 

[Machinehead]

Systems are designed first and foremost around centers.
You won't have a strong defense or any kind of competent strategy without having strong center depth.

We don't currently have those centers to execute the (so called) system but that's another story..Yet here we are..

Now you know why I complain about wanting a 4th line center all the time lol

That sounds like a problem with our coaching which I'll agree with, but that's a different story.

The point is, a winger who can execute these things is more valuable than a center who cannot. Going back to the Draisaitl example -very dynamic player, a star in this league- but Scotty Bowman on Red Bull couldn't make him good defensively. So again, who cares that he's a "center." He doesn't play like one.

So we're not really arguing that centers are more valuable, we're arguing that more complete and more versatile players are more valuable. That's not inherently linked to a position.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Yeah I obviously don’t put Smith at fault for making these moves. Just wondering what if.

P.S. Pretty sure (not 100% and lazy to look it up) Weight got the ring. Amonte was just entering his prime when he got moved.

Weight won a Cup with Carolina in 2005-06. I think was acquired during the season that year.

Doug Weight Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[offdacrossbar]

Our center depth worries me.

after mika there ain’t much if they do dump stromer. Say what you want about him but he’s adequate defensively and put up some solid O numbers. Without him we are toast.

the howden experiment must end. He’s a 4C enough said. His numbers last year were beyond bad.

Everyone else is either out of position or a hope and a prayer.

the middle of the ice scares me. There has to be something cooking.

 

[NYR]

That sounds like a problem with our coaching which I'll agree with, but that's a different story.

The point is, a winger who can execute these things is more valuable than a center who cannot. Going back to the Draisaitl example -very dynamic player, a star in this league- but Scotty Bowman on Red Bull couldn't make him good defensively. So again, who cares that he's a "center." He doesn't play like one.

So we're not really arguing that centers are more valuable, we're arguing that more complete and more versatile players are more valuable. That's not inherently linked to a position.

I think you're comparing Draisaitl to centers from a positional standpoint just because he was a top point getter all while EDM gets bounced in the playoffs year after year so how effective has he been as compared to say.. Malkin and Crosby?

Wingers have a completely different mission on the ice as compared to centers.
That's why when you force a player in an un-natural position, 9x out of 10 it isn't going to work.
That said.. Centers have an integral role in what happens on the ice as do wingers but they're completely 2 different positions.
Centers orchestrate a breakout and defend while wingers need to get in on a forecheck and pound the opposing defense.
Two completely different but both very important positions to a teams success.

Still all starts with the center..

 

[Machinehead]

I think you're comparing Draisaitl to centers from a positional standpoint just because he was a top point getter all while EDM gets bounced in the playoffs year after year so how effective has he been as compared to say.. Malkin and Crosby?

Wingers have a completely different mission on the ice as compared to centers.
That's why when you force a player in an un-natural position, 9x out of 10 it isn't going to work.
That said.. Centers have an integral role in what happens on the ice as do wingers but they're completely 2 different positions.
Centers orchestrate a breakout and defend while wingers need to get in on a forecheck and pound the opposing defense.
Two completely different but both very important positions to a teams success.

Still all starts with the center..

Right, it all starts with the center. And everyone says "oh Edmonton, Edmonton, Edmonton" in regards to the stars playing there not succeeding. But here's the thing: I don't think a witch put a spell on the Edmonton Oilers. I think it's time to admit that they're not competitive because they have one of Draisaitl or McDavid playing like 45/60 minutes and neither of them could point to the defensive zone on a map. So I'd rather have a winger who can do those things.