Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LVII

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Rangers did not pick him 5th overall. And for the Rangers, he has been worth every penny of his contract. And for his play with the Rangers, he is absolutely owed a raise.

I don't know if there's a schism based upon age here, but after years and years of players coming here and being terrible, there's seems to be an assumption by some people that players come here and thrive. Strome, Panarin and Zibanejad are the exception, not the rule.

33 points in 63 games may not seem impressive. But it is when you take into consideration those 33 points in 63 games came after putting up 2 points in the previous 18.

 

[bobbop]

That third piece would have to be #5 for me to listen.

I'd listen on Josh Norris or Logan Brown. Of course, it depends on what scouts have seen.

 

[SA16]

Strome's season last year as a Ranger would have been the lowest 5v5 points/60 he's had in any season of his career. And that's with the highest sh% he's ever had. He was not good in the 18-19 season.

Players who scored at about the same rate (1.32 pts/60) were Jordan Greenway, Matt Calvert, Colton Sceviour, Brendan Perlini, Marcus Johansson, Zack Kassian, Michael Raffl, Lawson Crouse, Tomas Nosek, Josh Archibald, Rickard Rakell.

I can admit he had a good offensive season in 19-20 but saying he did so in 18-19 is revisionist history.

 

[Edge]

Re: trading the first overall pick -

Like I keep saying, it's highly, highly, highly unlikely, but not a certainty.

 

[Polar Bear]

Re: trading the first overall pick -

Like I keep saying, it's highly, highly, highly unlikely, but not a certainty.

Unless the offer is objectively lopsided in our favor, I think I can speak for most fans who will be really pissed off at the front office.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

There is no chance that Ottawa offer is real, but I’m only going from 1 to 3 if I know 100% it’s Byfield. I’m not doing it for Stutlze.

That’s funny, because the only way I consider it is if Stutzle is there

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Why are the Flyers trading a player who just scored more points than Gaudreau and is signed for 3 more years than him?

Why did Washington trade Filip Forsberg for Erat? Why did Arizona trade a top 10 pick and Tony D for Derek Stepan? Why did Montreal trade McDonagh for Scott Gomez?

 

[charliemurphy]

Feels like rumors about teams trading 1OA come out every draft. How often does it happen?
Rangers aren't trading a talent like Lafreniere... kid will probably be wearing the C in a few years and wear it for a long time. This organization took a major shift as soon as that ball popped up. They aren't trading that.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Feels like rumors about teams trading 1OA come out every draft. How often does it happen?

My guess is because no front office is going to come out and say, "there's no chance we're trading this pick" because they owe it to themselves to allow would-be suitors to makes their best offers.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Why did Washington trade Filip Forsberg for Erat? Why did Arizona trade a top 10 pick and Tony D for Derek Stepan? Why did Montreal trade McDonagh for Scott Gomez?

1. Playoff Push
2. Chayka is a dope, but his reasoning here wasn't wrong, his target was.
3. Because Montreal is perpetually in the dreaded middle and have no plans to get out of it anytime soon. They spent a shit ton of money that offseason between Gomez, Camalleri, Moen, Gionta, Gill, etc.

Prospects were what were moved by the teams that lost these deals though. Konecny is an established NHL player. How often do you see cheap, NHL players on the upswing moved for more expensive players who are close to UFA and falling out of favor with management?

Something around Morgan Frost? I could see it.

 

[True Blue]

33 points in 63 games does not get you 2C money.

That comes out to basically 43 points, a part of that garnered while playing on the 4th line as you point out. That is exactly 2C money. Like Krieder, you can argue where on the spectrum it is, but does not change what it is in substance.

 

[Cag29]

To me, that falls into the "stupid offer" that it might take to part with the first overall. You're getting a unique talent in Tkachuk and still picking in that top-tier of player. Byfield or Stutzle both have the talent that they could be on a Lafreniere level when all is said and done. Maybe not in raw point totals but definitely in on-ice impact. They're just not as far along and have more question marks right now.

That being said, it does complicate things. Tkachuk is entering the 3rd year of his ELC and if the direction his brother went is any indication, you're looking at a big-number / short-term kind of negotiation. Hard to undersell the value in a guy like Lafreniere on a ELC. Tkachuk also requires expansion protection while Lafreniere does not.

Still, I don't think the Rangers would do it. No reason to tempt fate and there's too much risk in looking like a donkey if the guy you take at #3 flops and Tkachuk stagnates as "only" a 50pt power forward.

I’d need #5 as well. To consider it.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

If we’re gonna overpay for bottom 6ers, just overpay Fast and be done with it.

 

[True Blue]

I don't know if there's a schism based upon age here, but after years and years of players coming here and being terrible, there's seems to be an assumption by some people that players come here and thrive. Strome, Panarin and Zibanejad are the exception, not the rule.

33 points in 63 games may not seem impressive. But it is when you take into consideration those 33 points in 63 games came after putting up 2 points in the previous 18.

And that equates to 43 points in 82 games. Spend less time on the 4th line and is 45 points really so odd? And if that is not a second line center than what is?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

1. Playoff Push
2. Chayka is a dope, but his reasoning here wasn't wrong, his target was.
3. Because Montreal is perpetually in the dreaded middle and have no plans to get out of it anytime soon. They spent a shit ton of money that offseason between Gomez, Camalleri, Moen, Gionta, Gill, etc.

Prospects were what were moved by the teams that lost these deals though. Konecny is an established NHL player. How often do you see cheap, NHL players on the upswing moved for more expensive players who are close to UFA and falling out of favor with management?

Something around Morgan Frost? I could see it.

I can surmise questionable logic for that trade offer as well, just like the logic of the other trades is highly questionable. Like, Philly views Gaudreau as an immediate, massive upgrade and they feel that they need to make a push with Giroux and Voracek not getting any younger.

Also, here’s a good example: Fiala for Granlund

my point is nhl teams do dumb shit on the regular.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Speculation: - Jimmy Hayes Hearing Trade Rumors

NYR 1stOA pick for Brady Tkachuk + 3rdOA??


hmmm not sure what to think about this??? I do kinda like it although more should given from Sens in my opinion

Hayes is cousins with Tkachuk.

Unless you are starting a rebuild, never give up the best player in a draft

 

[SA16]

Why did Washington trade Filip Forsberg for Erat? Why did Arizona trade a top 10 pick and Tony D for Derek Stepan? Why did Montreal trade McDonagh for Scott Gomez?

Those were all prospects for established players to help them win now. Both Konecny and Gaudreau are already established players and Konecny is coming off the better season.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

And that equates to 43 points in 82 games. Spend less time on the 4th line and is 45 points really so odd? And if that is not a second line center than what is?

45 points is about ten points fewer than an average Derek Stepan year when he was here. And I can recall some debate about whether Stepan was a 1C or not.

 

[Edge]

Unless the offer is objectively lopsided in our favor, I think I can speak for most fans who will be really pissed off at the front office.

I think that's fair and perfectly understandable.

 

[Avery16]

And that equates to 43 points in 82 games. Spend less time on the 4th line and is 45 points really so odd? And if that is not a second line center than what is?

Projecting for Strome in 2018-19 is inappropriate. He played 18 more games that same season with Edmonton, scoring… wait for it….

2 points.

 

[kovazub94]

Well, if you're going to go there, seemingly the entire team is a product of him....

Didn't you see cries that Fast must be signed even if it means moving Buchnevich, ADA or Strome?

Why obvious chemistry between Panarin and Strome is prohibited to be acknowledged (if not appreciated) is beyond me. People talk about signing Strome on a team-friendly short-term deal as a crime against the humanity. I yet to see one Strome supporter who talks about giving him a contract worthy of a 70-point performer. @GoAwayStaal today's post about 4 year contract is the first time I saw this length of term.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Those were all prospects for established players to help them win now. Both Konecny and Gaudreau are already established players and Konecny is coming off the better season.

Sure, but otoh it's hard to argue that Gaudreau doesn't have the higher upside as a scorer. He's coming off a two straight seasons at over a ppg, with the last one being a 99 point outing that got him 4th on the Hart ballot.

The difference between their seasons could also be linked to Gaudreau shooting 4 point below his career average and Konecny shooting 4 points above it. And in any case, Konecny's breakout season hardly runs Gaudreau disappointing season into the ground.

There's also the fact that Hayes and Gaudreau were outstanding as linemates at BC, as well as his being from the area, that might embolden the Flyers to take a chance that he'll bounce back in a big way for them.

Konecny's a high price, but they probably feel comfortable with their younger forwards like Frost and Farabee to continue to improve, and at the same time want to inject some power into the front end of their lineup while Giroux and Voracek still have something left to give.

Personally don't love the deal for either team, but I can see the reasoning and the value doesn't feel far off to me on either side.

 

[Edge]

My guess is because no front office is going to come out and say, "there's no chance we're trading this pick" because they owe it to themselves to allow would-be suitors to makes their best offers.

And because you never rule out the stupid offer. Even if they are once in a generation.

Even if you don't accept, it potentially opens a door for future conversations about players and picks.

A year from now Tkachuk and Ottawa have a falling out over contract negotiations, you pick up the phone again. Of course I'm using that as an example, but I think most people get the point I am getting at.

 

[True Blue]

Projecting for Strome in 2018-19 is inappropriate. He played 18 more games that same season with Edmonton, scoring… wait for it….

2 points.

And again........it seems irrelvant as to what he did in.....wait for it..........Edmonton. What matters now is what he is doing here.

 

[True Blue]

Why obvious chemistry between Panarin and Strome is prohibited to be acknowledged (if not appreciated) is beyond me. People talk about signing Strome on a team-friendly short-term deal as a crime against the humanity. I yet to see one Strome supporter who talks about giving him a contract worthy of a 70-point performer. @GoAwayStaal today's post about 4 year contract is the first time I saw this length of term.

To be fair, I have stated that I could see a deal for him to be in the 2-4 year range. But then, I have been saying that $5m for 2-4 years for most of the year at this point.