Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LI

[bl02]

Yeesh. Dubas picked up a 1st, good prospect in Hallander, and got himself closer to Pietrangelo in one deal. Good deal for him.

How will they afford 8-10 million per year with Pietrangelo? Not saying you're wrong that may be there mindset but they only shed 3 million or so with Kapanen.

 

[True Blue]

I would generally agree, but at a certain point it'd be stupid not to.

I think that Gorton would only do so if he had absolutely no other choice or was in an unmanageable situation. Aside from that, as we all beleive that the team intends to compete for the playoffs next year, I do not see Gorton trading a young, 55 point wing for a player who may only help them in 5 years. And will certainly not replenish the production for this year.

 

[effen]

How will they afford 8-10 million per year with Pietrangelo? Not saying you're wrong that may be there mindset but they only shed 3 million or so with Kapanen.

The Kapanen deal is to free up money for Radko Gudas, which is kind of perfect in a few eays.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Probably depends on the GM. Some are gonna value the Cup and track record Murray's got, despite the salary he'll command. Goalies are tough.

This is true.

An analytic heavy FO will probably go with Geo. Murray sucks and hasn't really been able to stay healthy. Pittsburgh would be dumb. to move Jarry.

 

[True Blue]

Of course there's enough depth. Lundkvist can be the 3rd pair RD in 2021 if we trade DeAngelo. Trouba-Fox-Lundkvist. That's a great right side.

1) you HOPE that Lundqvist is ready for such a role
2) Who did you replace your 60 points of production from a defenseman with?

 

[effen]

1) you HOPE that Lundqvist is ready for such a role
2) Who did you replace your 60 points of production from a defenseman with?

 

[True Blue]

Incoming chastisement from True Blue. Brace yourself.

This is not a chastiment. It is a statement of where I see the team, what is the goal and what I believe management is going to do. Unlike you, I do not believe that Gorton will trade production for the promises of production in 3-5 years. I believe that this team will be fighting for a playoff spot next year. As such, weakening your top two lines does not seem like a logical move.

To me, the types of trades that you are in love with, are by and large over with for the Rangers. At least for now. Yes, certain situations may force such a move, but that is a Plan B not Plan A.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

1) you HOPE that Lundqvist is ready for such a role
2) Who did you replace your 60 points of production from a defenseman with?

Fox and Trouba would get more points just from taking his powerplay reps, you'd get points from whoever he was traded for, you'd get a few points from whoever fills that roster spot, and this team could take a hit at offensive production if it meant getting more competent defenders on the team (less GF, less GA, more structure)

 

[RGY]

Same. I think Buchnevich + K'Andre + something or something similar for a H. Lindholm is in the cards, but I have to wonder if the timeline is going to get accelerated a little too fast and they're not gonna sync everything just right.

I do think Gorton is going to try to be very creative.

Another god awful trade proposal for a defenseman that is 2 years away from free agency and/or a new deal, which will likely be the last big contract of his career. Meanwhile at that time Zibanejad will need a new deal as well as salary increases for a lot of our young talent, even if some of them are bridge deals. All the while not maximizing the return for your assets such as Buchnevich. Are we winning the cup next year? I dont think so. So in essence we are trading for 1 year of Lindholm then. Why not try and move Buchnevich for a 1st round pick and/or other assets?? And we are adding Miller to this?? And more??

The obsession with Lindholm needs to stop. I get its the player type we are looking for but his situation does not work for us.

 

[Fitzy]

1) you HOPE that Lundqvist is ready for such a role
2) Who did you replace your 60 points of production from a defenseman with?

I'm not saying it would fully replace- but Trouba went from 50 points to 27 because of a diminished role on the PP. Both he and Fox would probably see more production with ADA's departure.

 

[charliemurphy]

Fox and Trouba would get more points just from taking his powerplay reps, you'd get points from whoever he was traded for, you'd get a few points from whoever fills that roster spot, and this team could take a hit at offensive production if it meant getting more competent defenders on the team (less GF, less GA, more structure)

And I heard the kid that's going 1st overall can score.

 

[True Blue]

Fox and Trouba would get more points just from taking his powerplay reps, you'd get points from whoever he was traded for, you'd get a few points from whoever fills that roster spot, and this team could take a hit at offensive production if it meant getting more competent defenders on the team (less GF, less GA, more structure)

But then they would probably play less ES minutes and someone would have to replace those points.

I am saying that there are no trades to be met. But once you start to discuss 60 point, 24 year old defensemen, that return had better be THAT good that you could not walk away from. Or something that addressed issues for both teams making the move.

 

[effen]

Another god awful trade proposal for a defenseman that is 2 years away from free agency and/or a new deal, which will likely be the last big contract of his career. Meanwhile at that time Zibanejad will need a new deal as well as salary increases for a lot of our young talent, even if some of them are bridge deals. All the while not maximizing the return for your assets such as Buchnevich. Are we winning the cup next year? I dont think so. So in essence we are trading for 1 year of Lindholm then. Why not try and move Buchnevich for a 1st round pick and/or other assets?? And we are adding Miller to this?? And more??

The obsession with Lindholm needs to stop. I get its the player type we are looking for but his situation does not work for us.

Because if you don't turn your stuff into other stuff you don't have you become Winnipeg who accumulated all their dudes, didn't make a significant trade for like 5 or 6 years, and made the 2nd round once or something.

As to your second point, if you keep kicking the can down the road the future will never be the present. It doesn't have to be Lindholm or KAM specifically either, idk why you guys get so hung up on that stuff.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not saying it would fully replace- but Trouba went from 50 points to 27 because of a diminished role on the PP. Both he and Fox would probably see more production with ADA's departure.

Undeniably. But if they play more minutes on PP, they probalby play some less at ES and then the points that they would have scored also need to be replaced.

But at any rate like I said, when you start to think of a return profile for someone like DeAngelo, the possible trade partners shrink rapidly.

 

[True Blue]

And I heard the kid that's going 1st overall can score.

The conversation was about production from a defenseman. Which figures into overall production for the team.

 

[Fitzy]

Undeniably. But if they play more minutes on PP, they probalby play some less at ES and then the points that they would have scored also need to be replaced.

But at any rate like I said, when you start to think of a return profile for someone like DeAngelo, the possible trade partners shrink rapidly.

I mean, if we end up moving Buchnevich and Strome than the need to trade ADA goes away.

But I think it'll have to be either be one or the other, and the question becomes which package returns better value?

 

[effen]

But at any rate like I said, when you start to think of a return profile for someone like DeAngelo, the possible trade partners shrink rapidly.

eh, you can thread that needle. It only takes one trade partner. My bigger issue thematically is the idea that a team who just got bodied hard, whose GM publicly said they want to change the mix and be harder to play against is going to just slot in some underdeveloped kiddos as holes appear. It just doesn't square.

 

[bobbop]

This one has me scratching my head. Rutherford is clearly looking for one last run with the old gang but it will eventually implode. He is leaving nothing for those who follow him. The Penguins lose this trade today and tomorrow.

There's one lesson for the Rangers here. For the first time in many years, there are teams in the top 15 of the draft who see themselves as closer than typical lottery teams. Pittsburgh certainly was one. There are others who may be more willing to trade than the usual occupants of these draft positions. Carolina, Nashville and Edmonton are three that come to mind. I’d sure be turning over every rock to see if anyone else wants to move a top 14 pick.

 

[True Blue]

I mean, if we end up moving Buchnevich and Strome than the need to trade ADA goes away.

But I think it'll have to be either be one or the other, and the question becomes which package returns better value?

That is the debate. I have made my feelings pretty well known. I do not see all three of Strome, DeAngelo and Buchnevich here for long term. But I do think that IF any is traded, it will be to help the everyday lineup for next year.

 

[True Blue]

eh, you can thread that needle. It only takes one trade partner. My bigger issue thematically is the idea that a team who just got bodied hard, whose GM publicly said they want to change the mix and be harder to play against is going to just slot in some underdeveloped kiddos as holes appear. It just doesn't square.

That is also accurate. I believe that the return for trading a Buchnevich for instance may not be his exact production, but bringing in players like you are talking about to help the big club immediately.

 

[mas0764]

I think it's more about timing. Every kiddo in the rebuild era has been at the very least not physically ready for the NHL game and has frankly sucked noodles their first year or two years outside of the goalies. Having Buchnevich to take hard minutes and hard matchups and succeed in taking them for the next year or two has a lot of value that has nothing to do with 5 years from now.

There's a lot of value in not getting your head caved in. Players can lose confidence, develop bad habits, bust. That aspect of development is mostly ignored on this board and it's just not necessary if you actually have options.

But we do have options - we have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider. We have Fast who can be brought back. We can sign another veteran stopgap if needed. Kakko is gonna be ready for 2nd line minutes this season, probably Lafrieniere too.

I'm not seeing a ton of exposure-induced head caving from trading away Buch.

Strome, maybe, as Chytil will have to step up, but he's not a teenager anymore either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This one has me scratching my head. Rutherford is clearly looking for one last run with the old gang but it will eventually implode. He is leaving nothing for those who follow him. The Penguins lose this trade today and t9morrow.

There's one lesson for the Rangers here. For the first time in many years, there are teams in the top 15 of the draft who see themselves as closer than typical lottery teams. Pittsburgh certainly was one. There are others who may be more willing to trade than the usual occupants of these draft positions. Carolina, Nashville and Edmonton are three that come to mind. I’d sure be turning over every rock to see if anyone else wants to move a top 14 pick.

I cannot wait to see Pittsburgh implode, finish bottom-3 and watching the draft lottery from home as their pick belongs to Minnesota

 

[RGY]

Because if you don't turn your stuff into other stuff you don't have you become Winnipeg who accumulated all their dudes, didn't make a significant trade for like 5 or 6 years, and made the 2nd round once or something.

As to your second point, if you keep kicking the can down the road the future will never be the present. It doesn't have to be Lindholm or KAM specifically either, idk why you guys get so hung up on that stuff.

I dont disagree with pivoting and moving some assets from an area of strength to fill an area of weakness, but timing and the piece(s) have to be appropriate. Lindholm does not fit the bill because of his age and contract situation. He will be 28 and in need of a new contract in just 2 years. We are only entering what, year 3 of the rebuild? I mean who says we are going to become Winnipeg by waiting a little bit longer before purging some assets for another piece? Sure if an opportunity presents itself then you can pounce. But there shouldnt be some sort of panic that we need to make a move. Lindholm is the wrong move. If we were closer to cup contention then yeah maybe its a different conversation. But we are still 1-2 years away from legitimate year to year cup contention.

And people get “hung up” on the names because you nonchalantly just threw Miller in there who is young on an ELC and fits our timeline. This in addition to Buchnevich.

I’ll pass.

 

[RGY]

This one has me scratching my head. Rutherford is clearly looking for one last run with the old gang but it will eventually implode. He is leaving nothing for those who follow him. The Penguins lose this trade today and t9morrow.

There's one lesson for the Rangers here. For the first time in many years, there are teams in the top 15 of the draft who see themselves as closer than typical lottery teams. Pittsburgh certainly was one. There are others who may be more willing to trade than the usual occupants of these draft positions. Carolina, Nashville and Edmonton are three that come to mind. I’d sure be turning over every rock to see if anyone else wants to move a top 14 pick.

Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo.

Target acquired.

 

[bobbop]

I cannot wait to see Pittsburgh implode, finish bottom-3 and watching the draft lottery from home as their pick belongs to Minnesota

Next year may be a little soon...but that day is coming.