Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L
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LiveLongandProspal
NY Rangers = America's Team
Igor Shestyorkin
#26, the sickest of 'em all.
Matt Rentfree
Registered User
Meh. 5 points is ok. I live really close to there. It's overpriced and I'm not a fan of their crust.
LiveLongandProspal
NY Rangers = America's Team
I’ve watched Laf play in three games in the WJC the last days.
A few thoughts:
1. Strengths and weaknesses:
*He is as good as it gets in the attacking zone.
*He is very good away from the puck.
*He is not top notch heading up ice. Like good for sure, but he isn’t dominating in that area. Getting him the puck in the attacking zone will be a key.
2. So how good is that? Compared to say a MacKinnon, he is better than him in the attacking zone, and worse getting the puck up ice. Hopefully he can close the gap a little.
But I just want to set the expectations a bit. Nobody should expect someone that is showing tendencies to dominate when it comes to getting the puck up ice.
That center that covers the entire ice is a player type I love and when you get a FOA pick, you of course want a Crosby. Someone that every single shift can go deep and force the play up ice and keep it there. Laf isn’t that player. Stutzle might become one. Laf is surely better than Stutzle around the net. And don’t get me wrong. Laf will surely become a good possession player.
3. Should we pick him FOA? I believe so. But Stutzle is a really good prospect. I trust our guys to make the right call. For me Laf is No 1 until someone goes “From Germany” at the podium.
4. So we want to build a team around him. What is there to consider?
I want to emphasize how Laf is unique in how much he moves towards the net all the time.
One method to create offense that we have seen used more than ever before really since the 05’ lockout is players seeking open ice wherever it can be found. Pat Kane personalizes this more than anyone. There is one constant in his game, when he doesn’t have the puck, he goes anywhere on the ice where nobody else is. So that he can get the puck. It’s simple math really. Pat Kane with the puck is a win, no matter where he is on the ice (OK staying in the attacking zone is a plus once you entered it, but you get my point). He will go to the perimeter, and from there defenders cannot stop him from getting into the higher danger areas eventually. This is not Laf’s style however.
The game is ever changing and the new generation can do stuff the older can’t. One thing that stands out with Laf — but also with guys like Elias Petersson and Lucas Raymond — is that they are in such a darn good control even when they go to the net without finding open lanes to it. To put it like this, when you attack you normally have a “plan” to execute that enables you to fairly undisturbed make a play. These guys buys themselves like one extra second, because their plan also includes eventualities that may occur after a D has hit them, but during the time they are falling to the ice. Kinda. Different versions of that. Like they skate into trouble, but are confident that they still will find a way out of it, as they are able to, they get better and better at it.
Anyway, back on track, to be concrete, this is great because Laf executes plays. Ziba/Pan and co sometimes play around too much, Laf won’t — in a good way. He will not put low % pucks on nets risking possession. He will take a puck in a low % area of the ice and make a high % scoring chance of it.
5. Still, hockey is a constant balance act. If you lose the puck, you must be good at getting it back. If you are good at keeping the puck within the team, you don’t have to be as good at getting it back. But every attempt to score is a significant risk to lose the puck — so you must take risks.
Laf’s style will push these balance towards being a bit risky — in a typical Canadian fashion. I.e. you definitely don’t want him on a line that isn’t half good at going into battles for rebounds in the corners and what not. For example, I definitely think that Jesper Fast for example is a perfectly OK RW for Laf during a rookie season...
6. Laf is very much a LW when heading up ice, he curves deep and shows his blade on the left side.
To involve him sufficiently you will need to have a center that can get him the puck. If an opposing team puts any focus on him, that pass cannot be made from a D up the left side. It’s just so easy to immediately step up at him, the best way to utilize a winger in the transition phase is to have a C that threatens the center of the ice with the puck, which will push the D back and open up for a winger that curves deep.
In addition, it is undoubtedly a plus if the center is a RHS. You pass the puck better with forehand than backhand, it’s as simple as that. It is relativity easier for a LHS center to pass the puck to a RW than a LW. The dream center, from this POV, for Laf is definitely guys like Barzal and Point. But the list isn’t long, and fast you start to get down to names like Schmaltz and JG Pageu.
At the same time, a LHS will get better shooting opportunities playing with Laf. But it’s good if that center is a little bit better at cooperating with his wingers than either Chytil or Howden is. And Ziba isn’t an optimal fit either. Ziba and Chytil are a bit the same in the regard that their wingers must sacrifice a bit to play to their strength. Which is to get the puck up ice, slow down the pace, then find a Chytil/Ziba that has built up ice and comes storming down the ice.
7. The PP will be fun to construct with all of Panarin, Ziba, Kakko and Laf on it... For Canada at least in the WJC Laf played the left half board role in that new role. We could definitely try that, Panarin plays really well on the right side in the same role.
8. How good is Laf? Ready for the NHL? A top line? Look these kids don’t have to play 20 minutes a night. Think Laf both could play a lot or a little less. But I think getting the usage Kakko did will be alright.
A few thoughts:
1. Strengths and weaknesses:
*He is as good as it gets in the attacking zone.
*He is very good away from the puck.
*He is not top notch heading up ice. Like good for sure, but he isn’t dominating in that area. Getting him the puck in the attacking zone will be a key.
2. So how good is that? Compared to say a MacKinnon, he is better than him in the attacking zone, and worse getting the puck up ice. Hopefully he can close the gap a little.
But I just want to set the expectations a bit. Nobody should expect someone that is showing tendencies to dominate when it comes to getting the puck up ice.
That center that covers the entire ice is a player type I love and when you get a FOA pick, you of course want a Crosby. Someone that every single shift can go deep and force the play up ice and keep it there. Laf isn’t that player. Stutzle might become one. Laf is surely better than Stutzle around the net. And don’t get me wrong. Laf will surely become a good possession player.
3. Should we pick him FOA? I believe so. But Stutzle is a really good prospect. I trust our guys to make the right call. For me Laf is No 1 until someone goes “From Germany” at the podium.
4. So we want to build a team around him. What is there to consider?
I want to emphasize how Laf is unique in how much he moves towards the net all the time.
One method to create offense that we have seen used more than ever before really since the 05’ lockout is players seeking open ice wherever it can be found. Pat Kane personalizes this more than anyone. There is one constant in his game, when he doesn’t have the puck, he goes anywhere on the ice where nobody else is. So that he can get the puck. It’s simple math really. Pat Kane with the puck is a win, no matter where he is on the ice (OK staying in the attacking zone is a plus once you entered it, but you get my point). He will go to the perimeter, and from there defenders cannot stop him from getting into the higher danger areas eventually. This is not Laf’s style however.
The game is ever changing and the new generation can do stuff the older can’t. One thing that stands out with Laf — but also with guys like Elias Petersson and Lucas Raymond — is that they are in such a darn good control even when they go to the net without finding open lanes to it. To put it like this, when you attack you normally have a “plan” to execute that enables you to fairly undisturbed make a play. These guys buys themselves like one extra second, because their plan also includes eventualities that may occur after a D has hit them, but during the time they are falling to the ice. Kinda. Different versions of that. Like they skate into trouble, but are confident that they still will find a way out of it, as they are able to, they get better and better at it.
Anyway, back on track, to be concrete, this is great because Laf executes plays. Ziba/Pan and co sometimes play around too much, Laf won’t — in a good way. He will not put low % pucks on nets risking possession. He will take a puck in a low % area of the ice and make a high % scoring chance of it.
5. Still, hockey is a constant balance act. If you lose the puck, you must be good at getting it back. If you are good at keeping the puck within the team, you don’t have to be as good at getting it back. But every attempt to score is a significant risk to lose the puck — so you must take risks.
Laf’s style will push these balance towards being a bit risky — in a typical Canadian fashion. I.e. you definitely don’t want him on a line that isn’t half good at going into battles for rebounds in the corners and what not. For example, I definitely think that Jesper Fast for example is a perfectly OK RW for Laf during a rookie season...
6. Laf is very much a LW when heading up ice, he curves deep and shows his blade on the left side.
To involve him sufficiently you will need to have a center that can get him the puck. If an opposing team puts any focus on him, that pass cannot be made from a D up the left side. It’s just so easy to immediately step up at him, the best way to utilize a winger in the transition phase is to have a C that threatens the center of the ice with the puck, which will push the D back and open up for a winger that curves deep.
In addition, it is undoubtedly a plus if the center is a RHS. You pass the puck better with forehand than backhand, it’s as simple as that. It is relativity easier for a LHS center to pass the puck to a RW than a LW. The dream center, from this POV, for Laf is definitely guys like Barzal and Point. But the list isn’t long, and fast you start to get down to names like Schmaltz and JG Pageu.
At the same time, a LHS will get better shooting opportunities playing with Laf. But it’s good if that center is a little bit better at cooperating with his wingers than either Chytil or Howden is. And Ziba isn’t an optimal fit either. Ziba and Chytil are a bit the same in the regard that their wingers must sacrifice a bit to play to their strength. Which is to get the puck up ice, slow down the pace, then find a Chytil/Ziba that has built up ice and comes storming down the ice.
7. The PP will be fun to construct with all of Panarin, Ziba, Kakko and Laf on it... For Canada at least in the WJC Laf played the left half board role in that new role. We could definitely try that, Panarin plays really well on the right side in the same role.
8. How good is Laf? Ready for the NHL? A top line? Look these kids don’t have to play 20 minutes a night. Think Laf both could play a lot or a little less. But I think getting the usage Kakko did will be alright.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
I don’t think he wants anymore kids and I doubt your his type.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 16,199
- 15,058
I think this is a very good point. I’d add that it’s the composition of the lines, how the players fit together, more than simply focusing on the center position. Having Panarin on a like means the center can (and should) be focusing on other things. I mean, the center should have skill, but he doesn’t have to do everything. That’s obviously why Mika has his own line and Panarin has his own line. The other guys on those lines can be more role players. This line of thinking makes a lot of sense to me. And maybe even Chytil could be good for Panarin’s line eventually.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 16,199
- 15,058
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 16,199
- 15,058
When it comes to team defense I don't worry too much about the defensive assistant. I think ultimately it's on the head coach to push the team, everyone, to get it done. And of course, it's on the players to execute. The defensive assistant makes certain decisions, I'd assume, during the games. And of course runs drills and teaches technique. But the HC is where the team gets it's priorities.
I think Quinn deserves a pass for what has happened up till now, with so much turnover and him being new. But I’m not concerned much with the assistant coaches. And regardless of who they end up picking, I think it’s fair to expect improvement in Quinn’s third season with a beginning-to-stabilize core.
charliemurphy
Registered User
Too lazy to read through the entire thread but where did this talk of Lindholm come from? Is it because Calgary was eliminated and rumors are starting or is there legit interest between both orgs? If so, who on the roster is Calgary interested in?
Cag29
94! I’m ready for more! LGR!
- Jul 18, 2018
- 1,226
- 1,035
I think by 2022 Laf will be on the 1st line.Hello all. We are in exciting times. It’s been a while since I have posted. What can I say? Life gets in the way sometimes but I have been lurking on occasion. I should be posting more soon hopefully. First off AFamazing luck can’t wait to see him in red white and blue. Secondly to those who think we are getting a 2nd line center in trade or a big d-man before the draft you are kidding yourselves. Management is going to use this year as a show me year. Huge year for Chytil who many believe to be the future 2nd line center everyone is pining for. The kid is 20 for god sakes. And he’s gotten better with time. Is he great at everything?? Absolutely not however let’s take it easily and see re-evaluate him when he can legally drink a beer. I was hard on Fil, I wanted them to draft kostin, but he has made me eat crow on the pick. The size is there, the talent is there, and his decision making and execution will get better as time goes on and he keeps playing. He needs to work on face offs as well. I believe the shiny new toy syndrome from Kakko and now AF make people see Chytil in a new light but they shouldn’t, he’s still an excellent young asset teams would love to have. The 2nd line center for this team next year is Ryan Strome, simple as that. They will give him a 1 yr QO and hope by mid or end of the season Chytil can move up and Strome is gone. They are not going to move out assets they have accumulated with expansion looming. They know Strome has chemistry with Panarin, has played well upon coming here, and is a warm body until Fil is ready. I do also believe Buch”s days are numbered. But if he is moved early expect it to be in a pretty significant package for a player that is exempt from EXP. Next point is Fast. He loves NY. Expect him back on a 3 year deal that doesn’t break the bank. He will have offers with more money and term on the table but I would bet he goes no where. So what do we have???
this year lines look like
kreider. Zibby. Kakko
panarin Strome fast/Buch/Gauthier
A-Laf. Chytil. Fast/Buch/Gauthier
Lemme. Howden Fast/Gauthier
Miller/Roberson/ maybe TDA /????Trouba
Lindgren Fox
Staal/Smith Tony
Smith / Staal
shesty
Gio/hank ( I think gio moved at draft for a pick or prospect)
Benny allure loves Adam husks. Thinks he will be a nhl starter in the mold of Ben bishop. They are both huge. I trust his judgement above all else and I bet next year once hank gone and gio traded you will see shesty/huska tandem
They following year is when your gona see the fireworks, when all the cap comes off and after expansion is over, I then think you see a trade for. LD that has term and age and will cost us a pretty penny.
Ultimately I think they want
Kreider Zibanejad Kakko
Panarin Chytil/center acquired Kravstov
Lafreniere Chytil/ center acquired Barron
Lemieux Howden/Lowry/ Girgensons /Bonino type player/ fast/ Gauthier
They key is waiting a year but any trade they make has to be for an exempt player or they are screwed. That’s why the only trade I see them making prior is for a guy like Lowry or Girgensons both are young and would add a lot to the 4th line in terms of dogged forecheck, pk ability, and enough talent to chip in a few timely goals. But ultimately they are only 4th liners and it wouldn’t cost much in terms of draft picks to pay Seattle not to take them. Lowry would cost more but I would love Girgensons on this team. I’ve been saying it for years he would be excellent between lemmy and fast or Gauthier. Talk about a player dying for a change of scenery and still only 24-25 years old. A few years ago Sabres fans were calling him untouchable and their future captain. He just never had the offense to be a mike peca type player they thought but he’s a damn good 4th liner. Get him out of buffalo and watch. I wish they would trade lias for him because he is the player lias was supposed to be. Lias was billed as more of an offensive threat though. I think Quinn knows his third and 4th lines have to play more this year and they have to know their roles. Cause In reality if they don’t Quinn can be canned. I’m not saying they should win the cup but if they miss playoffs he’s in trouble with the talent on this roster. This organization is also very very high on Barron, Miller, and Robertson. So help us def on the way but whether is a full year half year I don’t know. I’m leaning towards full year away. Anyways just some ramblings from inside my head, hope you guys are all feeling well and safe. I’ll be back
and 99 others
i enjoy watching hockey
- Jul 27, 2011
- 719
- 793
Nothing credible. A hockey analyst tweeted if Calgary went out their front office would be busier than normal. Their fanbase is starting to doubt their core. They're ready to move on from Gaudreau, Monahan and Giordano, will be interested to see if management is too...
I floated the possibility of trading Georgiev, DeAngelo, + for a reliable 2C in Elias Lindholm but apparently DeAngelo is the next Cale Makar
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Mind blowing how little some people appreciate DeAngelo.
He was on pace for 64 f***ing points. It’s literally been 20 years since a Rangers defenseman scored that much in one season, and he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
He was on pace for 64 f***ing points. It’s literally been 20 years since a Rangers defenseman scored that much in one season, and he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
charliemurphy
Registered User
Gotcha. Would be interested to know if there was genuine interest in Georgiev and DeAngelo.
DeAngelo is not the next Makar, lol.
charliemurphy
Registered User
and 99 others
i enjoy watching hockey
- Jul 27, 2011
- 719
- 793
It's mind-boggling that DeAngelo is being compared to Brian Leetch. Highlight reel incoming...
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I didn’t compare him to Brian Leetch, I compared him to all the other defensemen we’ve had since then.
Yes I'm serious.
Run a better system then tell me who the better player is at this point in time.
You would rather go to war with Fox on the top line over Trouba?
Stop..
A lot depends on Hank . Next year no worries at all w Staal/Smith gone and Shattenkirk buyout much less
Igor Shestyorkin
#26, the sickest of 'em all.
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Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)- Latest: SnowblindNYR
