Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's mind-boggling that DeAngelo is being compared to Brian Leetch. Highlight reel incoming...

Not as mind-boggling as trying to make the case that Pionk is a better player...

 

[Ghost of jas]

Too lazy to read through the entire thread but where did this talk of Lindholm come from? Is it because Calgary was eliminated and rumors are starting or is there legit interest between both orgs? If so, who on the roster is Calgary interested in?

@Edge has revealed in the past that the Rangers have asked about Lindholm and weren’t rebuffed, while the Flames have inquired about Buchnevich. There have been trade talks in the past between the two teams over a variety of players.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yes, I would. Clearly Quinn shared the same sentiments, because Fox was getting more ES TOI than Jacob Trouba was later on in the season...

You're not going to get him with that one because he thinks Quinn sucks, so Quinn's usage of them isn't necessarily going to matter

 

[aufheben]

@Edge has revealed in the past that the Rangers have asked about Lindholm and weren’t rebuffed, while the Flames have inquired about Buchnevich. There have been trade talks in the past between the two teams over a variety of players.

IMO the best course of action for the Flames is to dive head-first into a rebuild like we did. Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie, Giordano, etc.

 

[Avery16]

You are either from Detroit or are thinking of another chain. I competed with Caesar’s for 22 years and they have been putting out slop the whole time.

We're talking about chain pizza. The comparison is with Pizza Hut, Dominoes, Papa Johns. 1990s Little Caesar's beats these handily.

I am not from Detroit.

 

[NYR]

Yes, I would. Clearly Quinn shared the same sentiments, because Fox was getting more ES TOI than Jacob Trouba was later on in the season...

That's because needs to get a clue

 

[bobbop]

We're talking about chain pizza. The comparison is with Pizza Hut, Dominoes, Papa Johns. 1990s Little Caesar's beats these handily.

I am not from Detroit.

I worked for Pizza Hut in that era. The consumer ratings always showed Caesar’s the lowest in pizza quality (by a lot)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’ve watched Laf play in three games in the WJC the last days.

A few thoughts:

1. Strengths and weaknesses:
*He is as good as it gets in the attacking zone.
*He is very good away from the puck.
*He is not top notch heading up ice. Like good for sure, but he isn’t dominating in that area. Getting him the puck in the attacking zone will be a key.

2. So how good is that? Compared to say a MacKinnon, he is better than him in the attacking zone, and worse getting the puck up ice. Hopefully he can close the gap a little.

But I just want to set the expectations a bit. Nobody should expect someone that is showing tendencies to dominate when it comes to getting the puck up ice.

That center that covers the entire ice is a player type I love and when you get a FOA pick, you of course want a Crosby. Someone that every single shift can go deep and force the play up ice and keep it there. Laf isn’t that player. Stutzle might become one. Laf is surely better than Stutzle around the net. And don’t get me wrong. Laf will surely become a good possession player.

3. Should we pick him FOA? I believe so. But Stutzle is a really good prospect. I trust our guys to make the right call. For me Laf is No 1 until someone goes “From Germany” at the podium.

4. So we want to build a team around him. What is there to consider?

I want to emphasize how Laf is unique in how much he moves towards the net all the time.

One method to create offense that we have seen used more than ever before really since the 05’ lockout is players seeking open ice wherever it can be found. Pat Kane personalizes this more than anyone. There is one constant in his game, when he doesn’t have the puck, he goes anywhere on the ice where nobody else is. So that he can get the puck. It’s simple math really. Pat Kane with the puck is a win, no matter where he is on the ice (OK staying in the attacking zone is a plus once you entered it, but you get my point). He will go to the perimeter, and from there defenders cannot stop him from getting into the higher danger areas eventually. This is not Laf’s style however.

The game is ever changing and the new generation can do stuff the older can’t. One thing that stands out with Laf — but also with guys like Elias Petersson and Lucas Raymond — is that they are in such a darn good control even when they go to the net without finding open lanes to it. To put it like this, when you attack you normally have a “plan” to execute that enables you to fairly undisturbed make a play. These guys buys themselves like one extra second, because their plan also includes eventualities that may occur after a D has hit them, but during the time they are falling to the ice. Kinda. Different versions of that. Like they skate into trouble, but are confident that they still will find a way out of it, as they are able to, they get better and better at it.

Anyway, back on track, to be concrete, this is great because Laf executes plays. Ziba/Pan and co sometimes play around too much, Laf won’t — in a good way. He will not put low % pucks on nets risking possession. He will take a puck in a low % area of the ice and make a high % scoring chance of it.

5. Still, hockey is a constant balance act. If you lose the puck, you must be good at getting it back. If you are good at keeping the puck within the team, you don’t have to be as good at getting it back. But every attempt to score is a significant risk to lose the puck — so you must take risks.

Laf’s style will push these balance towards being a bit risky — in a typical Canadian fashion. I.e. you definitely don’t want him on a line that isn’t half good at going into battles for rebounds in the corners and what not. For example, I definitely think that Jesper Fast for example is a perfectly OK RW for Laf during a rookie season...

6. Laf is very much a LW when heading up ice, he curves deep and shows his blade on the left side.

To involve him sufficiently you will need to have a center that can get him the puck. If an opposing team puts any focus on him, that pass cannot be made from a D up the left side. It’s just so easy to immediately step up at him, the best way to utilize a winger in the transition phase is to have a C that threatens the center of the ice with the puck, which will push the D back and open up for a winger that curves deep.

In addition, it is undoubtedly a plus if the center is a RHS. You pass the puck better with forehand than backhand, it’s as simple as that. It is relativity easier for a LHS center to pass the puck to a RW than a LW. The dream center, from this POV, for Laf is definitely guys like Barzal and Point. But the list isn’t long, and fast you start to get down to names like Schmaltz and JG Pageu.

At the same time, a LHS will get better shooting opportunities playing with Laf. But it’s good if that center is a little bit better at cooperating with his wingers than either Chytil or Howden is. And Ziba isn’t an optimal fit either. Ziba and Chytil are a bit the same in the regard that their wingers must sacrifice a bit to play to their strength. Which is to get the puck up ice, slow down the pace, then find a Chytil/Ziba that has built up ice and comes storming down the ice.

7. The PP will be fun to construct with all of Panarin, Ziba, Kakko and Laf on it... For Canada at least in the WJC Laf played the left half board role in that new role. We could definitely try that, Panarin plays really well on the right side in the same role.

8. How good is Laf? Ready for the NHL? A top line? Look these kids don’t have to play 20 minutes a night. Think Laf both could play a lot or a little less. But I think getting the usage Kakko did will be alright.

This is a great write up that needs more love.

Point #5 is why this team needs to diversify its top 9. This is an area of the game that we undoubtedly suck at and have since year 2 of AV.

I disagree with the take on Chytil and Zone entries though. He's really, really good at them and the numbers bear it out. Like if they were to trade for a 3rd line center, I'd have no problem putting him on the right wing with Zibanejad and Laf. Unless Quinn's hard on for Howden extends beyond conventional wisdom, its entirely possible that Laf and Chytil start the season together.

One more thing that wasn't brought up here is just how balanced Laf's attack is. I wouldn't classify him as pass first (if anything, hes more shot heavy than pass heavy which is good, we pass too damn much) but in the offensive zone, hes so unpredictable. If he isn't a staple on PP1 in the Strome spot by the middle of the season, our coaches are morons, unless his unit is killing it so hard that they have no choice.

 

[and 99 others]

Not as mind-boggling as trying to make the case that Pionk is a better player...

Sarcasm is lost on the internet and for that I apologize. On a serious note, and this is the hill i'm willing to die on: DeAngelo's offensive production is not sustainable without the continued defensive liabilities he creates when he's on the ice (regardless of whether it's with Staal, Hajek or Fox). I went through each of his points from this season via the 8 min condensed games that the NHL puts out on youtube. By my count, 29 out of his 53 points this season could have been created by any NHL-level defenseman (2nd assists where he legitimately did nothing other than wrap the puck around the boards, or "get-the-puck-to-Panarin/Zibanejad" plays - is there an advanced metric for this).

There are moments when he's incredible (the 5-point game against the Devils is one of the all-time great performances by a rangers defenseman) but he's not 5M+ long-term contract worthy in my opinion.

Hawaii is in lockdown so I'm going to put together a nice little montage of Tony "Literally Cale Makar" DeAngelo over the weekend

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Sarcasm is lost on the internet and for that I apologize. On a serious note, and this is the hill i'm willing to die on: DeAngelo's offensive production is not sustainable without the continued defensive liabilities he creates when he's on the ice (regardless of whether it's with Staal, Hajek or Fox). I went through each of his points from this season via the 8 min condensed games that the NHL puts out on youtube. By my count, 29 out of his 53 points this season could have been created by any NHL-level defenseman (2nd assists where he legitimately did nothing other than wrap the puck around the boards, or "get-the-puck-to-Panarin/Zibanejad" plays - is there an advanced metric for this).

There are moments when he's incredible (the 5-point game against the Devils is one of the all-time great performances by a rangers defenseman) but he's not 5M+ long-term contract worthy in my opinion.

Hawaii is in lockdown so I'm going to put together a nice little montage of Tony "Literally Cale Makar" DeAngelo over the weekend

Cool.

Do one for some of the other D too. I think you'd be surprised at how often this happens.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I worked for Pizza Hut in that era. The consumer ratings always showed Caesar’s the lowest in pizza quality (by a lot)

I love Stuffed Crust.

 

[Avery16]

I worked for Pizza Hut in that era. The consumer ratings always showed Caesar’s the lowest in pizza quality (by a lot)

You heard it here first: the masses aren't always right. FWIW, PH is my number 2 for the chains, in the 90s. I wouldn't go to either anymore.

 

[Vitto79]

TSN adding fuel to the fire about big changes in Calgary

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

TSN adding fuel to the fire about big changes in Calgary

Their front office always get real mad when they get eliminated

 

[aufheben]

Cool.

Do one for some of the other D too. I think you'd be surprised at how often this happens.

Other D? You could say that about any other SKATER.

It doesn’t matter anyway. He was still 6th on the team in 5v5 G+/-

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Their front office always get real mad when they get eliminated

Yeah but they're kind of reached the "enough is enough" part.

There will be changes coming there I just don't know that we'll be involved.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

That's because needs to get a clue

Or maybe Fox is just better? Lmao

 

[NYR]

Or maybe Fox is just better? Lmao

Nope lol

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yeah but they're kind of reached the "enough is enough" part.

There will be changes coming there I just don't know that we'll be involved.

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen. I think this time their approach to fixing the team shouldn't involve trying to get former Oilers though

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Nope lol

Wow. You really convinced me.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen. I think this time their approach to fixing the team shouldn't involve trying to get former Oilers though

Also, now that I'm thinking about it, they're going to go hard after Laviolette aren't they?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Also, now that I'm thinking about it, they're going to go hard after Laviolette aren't they?

I think he ends up in Washington.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I think he ends up in Washington.

Washington haaates paying coaches though

 

[NYR Viper]

I think I’m more interested in E Lindholm than Monahan. Buch + Georgiev

At which point a Strome for Brodin deal makes sense.

Which then leads to a need for a RW. Mantha would fit a style the team needs more of.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Washington haaates paying coaches though

they went the cheap route and saw how it worked out.