Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Monahan is on the verge of being run out of town in Calgary. Now is the time to strike.

 

[duhmetreE]

Interesting. I was under the impression Chytil wasn’t so good defensively. Happy to read that.

I think he's better suited for that role than offense. He just really needs to work on faceoffs.

 

[Ola]

Put me down for one Monahan. He's the 2C we've been searching for.

Just afraid that he would be to us what Ryan Johansen is to Nashville.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Just afraid that he would be to us what Ryan Johansen is to Nashville.

RyJo would also be great for us, just as long as we don’t trade a Seth Jones for him

 

[Kovalev27]

Monahan has a nightmare season. He was a ppg fierce player the year before. Be like Mika putting up a 50 pt season after breaking out.

you look at his trajectory and you gotta think it was a fluke. But he’s got 3 years and 6 and a half mil due to him it’s a risk no question

 

[SA16]

I assume I'm going to pull up Gaudreau's playoff stats now and see he has an egregiously low shooting percentage in the playoffs which is the root of all complaints.

Lets see.

Surprise surprise. 2 goals on 49 shots.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Elias Lindholm is 25 years old, turning 26 in December. He put up 78 points in 81 games last season. He finished this season top 25 in scoring for centers. If you want to throw around point production, that's more points than Bo Horvat, Claude Giroux, Dylan Larkin, Tyler Seguin, Pierre Luc-Dubois, and Sean Monahan.

Lindholm is signed at a very friendly $4.8M for the next 4 years and is putting up very good production without the luxury of passing the puck to Artemi Panarin. Respectfully, I don't think it's an overpayment.

He was matched in production by DeAngelo this season. You don't trade DeAngelo + Georgiev + MORE for him. You just don't. That's overvaluing him.

 

[egelband]

I think he's better suited for that role than offense. He just really needs to work on faceoffs.

Would be an interesting twist were Chytil to develop into a defense-first center. It’s probably a very sharp approach, actually.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I don't think Fox pulls a Skjei for 2 reasons.

1. He already started to handle the tougher assignments this year and crushed them.
2. His hockey sense is 10000000x better

People mention the Sophomore slump like it's some kind of mystery illness that randomly infects second year players. Usually, it's due to a lack of proper training/preparation or a regression from a statistical anomaly (In Skjei's case, the unholy amount of secondary assists he had in year 1.)

Now if he completely f***s off during the break like Hayes did after his rookie season then yeah, struggle city is probably going to get a new occupant.

I don't have him earmarked for a regression. And I agree that he has better tools at being DEFENSEman than Sjkei.

It's just not my M.O. to convince myself on trajectories. At least not on these straight line paths. They are all stocks, ups and downs with an overall trend. Some people see Trouba hitting some speed bumps and they see it as the downturn on his career. I see a quarterly dip on his graph.

Forgive the analogies, I'm just trying to say we are in agreement. I won't be surprised if Fox has a dip simply because he trended so high last year and he's probably going to get more responsibilities. I won't jump off a cliff if he regresses a little.

 

[mas0764]

The really interesting question is, what is the NYR’s view of their window? You could actually argue they may have the most talent on their roster over the next two seasons. It is uncertain and reliant on kids...but by 2022 the tough financial decisions start.

Do they push the needle to try to win now with contracts that expire by then?

Or do they continue to develop patiently knowing that by the time the kids are (hopefully) peaking they could also have some cap tightness.

Listening to JD definitely seems like they are going with option 2. But I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the team meetings this Summer/Fall.

Option 2.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don't have him earmarked for a regression. And I agree that he has better tools at being DEFENSEman than Sjkei.

It's just not my M.O. to convince myself on trajectories. At least not on these straight line paths. They are all stocks, ups and downs with an overall trend. Some people see Trouba hitting some speed bumps and they see it as the downturn on his career. I see a quarterly dip on his graph.

Forgive the analogies, I'm just trying to say we are in agreement. I won't be surprised if Fox has a dip simply because he trended so high last year and he's probably going to get more responsibilities. I won't jump off a cliff if he regresses a little.

True. The sophomore slump is real and it seems to happen to defensemen more. Hope Fox can fight through it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Would be an interesting twist were Chytil to develop into a defense-first center. It’s probably a very sharp approach, actually.

I've been saying it for a while. He has what it takes to be a workhorse.

I know it was a few games but I'm glad he finally started to PK ( due to injuries and suspensions )

 

[DutchShamrock]

Well I think its safe to assume that a high priced LW is the least likely thing the Rangers would be targeting right now.

You have to address it beforehand before you get flamed by the mob killing the messenger.

 

[SA16]

I am not understand why we need to trade for Monahan or someone like that. Have we not already seen this year, and throughout his career, that Panarin does not need that level of center to produce? You're going to get a minimal upgrade for significantly more money. I would much rather go for several two way centers who can help out his line and other lines on the defensive end. Also, Monahan is absolutely terrible defensively.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah I didnt like the Kreider deal then, it looks even worse now.

But this is the position they're in because of the contracts they've handed out and the lottery luck.

The Kreider deal is not good for where he will end up, which is the third line. He is way, way overpaid for a third line winger. Even though as a player he's better than that, and it's great to have that depth, he's too expensive for that role. And he WILL end up there, and soon.

If he was the only bad deal you could live with it, but its quickly beginning to look like Trouba is also a bad deal. He's getting $8m to be a 2/3 defender at best, he's not a #1. And while he brings something the others do not, he also does not bring what you need from a guy getting $8m a year. He's being passed by Fox most likely in overall importance, just on the right side. What money is Fox gonna demand??

Panarin is getting $11m. Thats one of the highest paid contracts in the league.

It's great to have this potential problem, but it IS just that: a potential problem that must be planned for.

You cannot keep everyone and given that we have now handed out at least 2 contracts where we are going to be overpaying relative to their eventual role, relatively early in the duration of these contracts (ie, we aren't talking year 6 or 7), we are gonna have to make some early tough choices.

Buch cannot be resigned to a long term deal that we cannot get out of. It will be suicide. Neither can Strome.

They should be moved.

 

[Irishguy42]

No. I’m not buying it. He was a 40-45 point center with Carolina. Calgary moved him to RW and that’s when he had his offensive breakout. Analytics are fine but there is the eye test too. Seeing him on the Hurricanes on a pretty regular basis before his trade; he is not as good at that position, certainly not full time. You can’t trade for a guy and then play him at his worse position.

He's been great as a center for Calgary what are you smoking? His offensive breakout year was also in the same season he played center the most. He was also fairly young for most of his time in Carolina.

He's great in all three-zones to boot. Him being a great RW as well is just gravy.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I just don't think Monahan and Lindholm are as good as y'all think. They've both been attached to the hip of Gaudreau in their time there. Lindholm never did anything in Carolina and isn't good at Center. Monahan scores goals but in my opinion is more of the same as Zibanejad but way less effective, which isn't what we need. Monahan doesn't drive play or help control the pace of the game. He's a passenger who scores goals next to an elite playmaking wing. I don't like how many people devalue Strome here and throw him away while ignoring his undeniable chemistry with Panarin.

Panarin has played with Patrick Kane in his first two NHL seasons, never came near a 100 point pace. He played with Pierre-Luc Dubois and Cam Atkinson in Columbus, never came that that close to 100 points, never hit 90 there. Now he played with Ryan Strome, the guy most of you would consider the worst player among those 3 I listed, and he paced for what? Nearly 110 points? Why is that? Not to mention his metrics showed he was the most dominant ES player in the NHL. Why did he have his best season yet with Ryan Strome and why do people want to dump Strome so badly, knowing that fact? You've found a piece who works fantastically with Panarin, but then you want to get Lindholm or Monahan from Calgary because... their point totals looked nice last season? And especially Lindholm for DeAngelo? Why?

 

[BBKers]

Mantha plays both wings, Someone else on NYR would likely be moved in such a scenario. My source here is not a Ranger affiliated person. But he knows his stuff

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Elias Lindholm is 25 years old, turning 26 in December. He put up 78 points in 81 games last season. He finished this season top 25 in scoring for centers. If you want to throw around point production, that's more points than Bo Horvat, Claude Giroux, Dylan Larkin, Tyler Seguin, Pierre Luc-Dubois, and Sean Monahan.

Lindholm is signed at a very friendly $4.8M for the next 4 years and is putting up very good production without the luxury of passing the puck to Artemi Panarin. Respectfully, I don't think it's an overpayment.

If he's this good, why is CGY giving him up anyway? The way he's being talked about in this thread, he's some elite, play driving beast that CGY shouldn't even consider trading.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Mantha plays both wings, Someone else on NYR would likely be moved in such a scenario. My source here is not a Ranger affiliated person. But he knows his stuff

Mantha is a stud but he should come with a Handle with care sticker on him. But I could imagine him scoring 40-50 goals on a line with Panarin and on the right half wall on the PP.

 

[JimmyG89]

Interesting. I was under the impression Chytil wasn’t so good defensively. Happy to read that.

Something that happened in the play in games was the Chytil did get a little bit of short handed time. He basically got none in the regular season. He was part of the 3rd set of PK forwards. More responsibility for him and I would not be surprised if he gets that kind of role again this upcoming season, maybe even more.

I definitely think a center that is going to be around longer term is still on the docket for the team, but it might be more of a 2nd/3rd line type than a 1st/2nd line type.

 

[UnSandvich]

The Kreider deal is not good for where he will end up, which is the third line. He is way, way overpaid for a third line winger. Even though as a player he's better than that, and it's great to have that depth, he's too expensive for that role. And he WILL end up there, and soon.

If he was the only bad deal you could live with it, but its quickly beginning to look like Trouba is also a bad deal. He's getting $8m to be a 2/3 defender at best, he's not a #1. And while he brings something the others do not, he also does not bring what you need from a guy getting $8m a year. He's being passed by Fox most likely in overall importance, just on the right side. What money is Fox gonna demand??

Panarin is getting $11m. Thats one of the highest paid contracts in the league.

It's great to have this potential problem, but it IS just that: a potential problem that must be planned for.

You cannot keep everyone and given that we have now handed out at least 2 contracts where we are going to be overpaying relative to their eventual role, relatively early in the duration of these contracts (ie, we aren't talking year 6 or 7), we are gonna have to make some early tough choices.

Buch cannot be resigned to a long term deal that we cannot get out of. It will be suicide. Neither can Strome.

They should be moved.

Strome should be moved. As should Georgiev. Buchnevich has made every line he's been put on better, and he's still improving. His contract isn't up until after next season, i.e. when we've got a bunch more cap space. Sign him 4.5-5x 4 or 5 years while COVID's keeping the cap artificially low, and it'll be a bargain in 2 years. And if Kravtsov, Gauthier, or someone else eventually shows they can take Buch's spot, all we need to do is retain a bit of cap, and teams will bite.

EDIT: He's also our only remotely proven Top 6 RW

 

[mas0764]

This. I have no clue why people are rushing to get a big time center when we don't need one right now. Chytil is still unproven and you don't know who is getting bought out for a cheap stopgap. People really need to relax

The reason to rush is we have assets to parlay right now and who knows what those assets look like 2 years from now, or if they've left in free agency, or what.

Georgiev, Strome, Buch, an extra first round, RFA DeAngelo, Lias Andersson still has some intrigue perhaps.

I'm not trying to win now, but I am trying to parlay into a future top 6 center right now, because I suspect we have the assets to make a deal somewhere, while these guys are cost controlled, for a guy for the future. Not meaning the "big splash Jack Eichel or offer sheet Barzal," move, more like trading up and getting a guy you love, or someone you liked in the last 2 drafts who isn't in the NHL yet.

But the rumors here are that the team isn't gonna want to move roster talent, which is disappointing to me.

 

[mas0764]

Strome should be moved. As should Georgiev. Buchnevich has made every line he's been put on better, and he's still improving. His contract isn't up until after next season, i.e. when we've got a bunch more cap space. Sign him 4.5-5x 4 or 5 years while COVID's keeping the cap artificially low, and it'll be a bargain in 2 years. And if Kravtsov, Gauthier, or someone else eventually shows they can take Buch's spot, all we need to do is retain a bit of cap, and teams will bite.

Fair enough.

 

[Fireonk]

Lindholm never did anything in Carolina..

His numbers were about the same as Zib put up in Ottawa at the same age.

If he's this good, why is CGY giving him up anyway? The way he's being talked about in this thread, he's some elite, play driving beast that CGY shouldn't even consider trading.

Not sure what you are reading, I don't think anyone has been claiming Lindholm is elite. His contract is though and I think that's a big draw here.