Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part IX: Can't take Staal away from AV

[LeetchisGod]

16-17 and 17-18 last 2o reg season games he's 5/2/7

7 points in 20 games.
2 assists

for a guy who drives the offense. thats bad

16-17 12 playoffs games

3/2/5

again same trend.

he is what he is a semi- productive overpaid 3rd liner.

Nash is paid to produce, and for significant stretches of his Ranger tenure, he hasn't. Hopefully this is the last year that we'll have to watch him botch great scoring chances.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Saying Zucc should shoot more and be a finisher on a line is...it's not wrong that he should shoot more but at this point in his career you're kind of trying to turn him into something that he is not. He's not going to become the shooter on a line, he's always going to be a mostly pass first player. It may fit thematically but realistically he's not likely to make a big change to his style of game at this point.

Yes he should shoot more, no I don't think he'll ever do it enough to be the finisher on a line.

You have a point but he goes through periods where he shoots more than others. Crazy as it sounds for a guy that is so unselfish but I think he only trails Nash and CK in goals over the last 4 Ranger seasons.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I watched San Jose play a week ago and Thornton is really slow

I also am shocked he was skating even though he tore his ACL not that long ago

I get being interested in the surface, but I don’t think that’s the path they should go. Besides I’m not even sure how that works salary wise

 

[NickyFotiu]

Just in case it was not obvious, I was only kidding about bringing Thornton in. The Joe version of 4 years ago and for 3 mill a year I might have considered.

 

[Off Sides]

In my opinion Zucc is by far the best passer on the team, he has the most vision. I get why he tends to try to make things happen with that attribute but yes it's frustrating at times when he is in shooting position(from our view point) and makes a pass, yet out of all the players I trust to make the right play, shoot or not, (by their view of the play) I trust him the most.

 

[Ori]

Yes, good point @Levitate & @NickyFotiu - we can`t change him. They Just need to remind him so it open up for our finishers like Kevin for instant, and he did that well earlier on the pp.

I thought mainly about his 5 v 5 situations though.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Holden and Kampfer in again tonight

Smith and DeAngelo scratched

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Holden and Kampfer in again tonight

Smith and DeAngelo scratched

Sigh.

Holden and Kamp were brutal last game aside from 2 decent shifts. Hemmed in their own zone countless times and unable to get the puck out.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The only argument you could make for playing Holden is they are showing him off for a potential trade (and he’s doing a terrible job at it)

But that probably isn’t it so f*** AV

 

[Revel]

Holden and Kampfer in again tonight

Smith and DeAngelo scratched

Knew this would happen. Hank was positively glowing after the game about the "structure" in front of him. AV wasn't going to ignore that. Was good to see Hank happy and smiling, at least.

 

[Whitehawk1186]

I think I'm actually starting to HATE AV.

 

[Hire Sather]

I support AV but man.. Smith has 1 bad game and rides the pine for 2 while Girardi survived all season last year.

 

[Hire Sather]

He just f***ing loves Kampfer, ugh.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yes, good point @Levitate & @NickyFotiu - we can`t change him. They Just need to remind him so it open up for our finishers like Kevin for instant, and he did that well earlier on the pp.

I thought mainly about his 5 v 5 situations though.

@Ori you are actually right in this case. Zooks is a really good player but even some great players need reminding to shoot occasionally. Some need reminding to pass as well.

 

[Ori]

Yeah, it will be a rough game - AV need to limit their minutes for sure. We`ve two days break after this game.
And since we are still experimenting with pairings and lines.
I would try as follow:

Ryan Mc - Skjei (shutdown pair)
Shattenkirk - M. Staal (Holden)
Holden (M. Staal) - Kampfer

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Nash - Miller - Zucc
*Vesey - Hayes - *Grabner

*awful finishing so far, and they need to improve and Hayes can get them in shooting positions on that line.
Nash is Nash and he is trying - and he will put up pts. eventually based on his experience.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I support AV but man.. Smith has 1 bad game and rides the pine for 2 while Girardi survived all season last year.

I'm a Smith fan but I felt he has looked bad going back to his first preseason game. He has also looked slower. I'm sure he will come around but its on him to get his game right.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Holden and Kampfer in again tonight

Smith and DeAngelo scratched

AV needs to be fired.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm not a big AV fan, mostly I think he tends to fall back on safe rather than seeing in real time what is a better option, and I can not stand some of his supposed reasoning, "inefficient touches and right thing to do" but in this case the players being scratched have the ability to play better, they need to do it.

Add in Lundqvist thinks they played better in front of him, not sure I buy that either rather than Montreal just not being good as good as the previous teams they lost to offensively, but I kind of have to feel AV deferring to the guy in net, and to the roster that actually won a game being probably the right play here.

If he does not, and they get shelled this next game in some part due to Smith and DeAngelo, which seems possible regardless of who is scratched given the way the whole team is playing, then what? Not only does that possibly anger Lundqvist coming off a shut out, he has to go right back to Holden and Kampfer the next game in Columbus where they are even more likely to get crushed.

Don't get me wrong, AV is not a very good coach in my opinion, but in this case it's not like he is just scratching guys to get a vet back in play ruining any chemistry the team had going, or because he does not like someone, or because he thinks having three LD play RD is a good idea, or because he thinks some match-up that has no chance of working will work...

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I support AV but man.. Smith has 1 bad game and rides the pine for 2 while Girardi survived all season last year.

This is the problem with this.

What exactly is AV doing? Is it punishment for poor play? If so, how do you justify keeping Kampfer/Holden in when they got caved in last game? Because we won? We won because Hank played great and cleaned up the mess.

AV playing Holden-Kampfer two games in a row with no injuries should merit a talking to from Gorton (although who knows where he stands on this). This is ridiculous.

How does DeAngelo learn if he gets benched after one bad game 2 games into his Rangers career? This player being a main part of the package we got for our number 1 center trade. AV gives him almost zero rope, then plays him at forward and PP only. What?

What does scratching Smith again do? He's a veteran, how does it benefit him?

Does this arrogant coach AV really think his roster decisions are why we won Sunday night? Only A "my own farts smell awesome" V could watch the tape of that game and come away with the impression that Holden-Kampfer were a positive towards winning.

Holden gets no discipline for blatant turnovers leading to high quality chances? And why does AV love Kampfer so much? Because he can skate pretty well? That's not enough when he does nothing else at an NHL level.

These guys should not be seeing NHL minutes as long as all the D are healthy.

 

[Kovalev27]

This is pretty simple. Those 6 D helped hank get a shutout. They earn another game as a group without changes. Any other outcome and they probably both are sitting but win by shutout earns you another game. I thought Holden was awful and Kampfer was solid but we’ll see how it goes.

I didn’t see anything posted on line rushes or who’s playing goal tonight. I’m assuming hank

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah, it will be a rough game - AV need to limit their minutes for sure. We`ve two days break after this game.
And since we are still experimenting with pairings and lines.
I would try as follow:

Ryan Mc - Skjei (shutdown pair)
Shattenkirk - M. Staal (Holden)
Holden (M. Staal) - Kampfer

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Nash - Miller - Zucc
*Vesey - Hayes - *Grabner

*awful finishing so far, and they need to improve and Hayes can get them in shooting positions on that line.
Nash is Nash and he is trying - and he will put up pts. eventually based on his experience.

Completely agree, we need to finally see Mac and Brady playing together.

 

[SA16]

Making lines and rosters are pretty easy.

Set the lineup you think is right and legitimately never change it barring injury. If there was any logic at all to the lineup created then that is what you believe to be optimal and should be played. If you change it all the time it just means you don't know what you are doing or are trying to find a "spark" which doesn't even make sense and just means you're creating a suboptimal lineup since what you came up with originally should be what you thought was best.

 

[Ori]

Yeah, I thought it would be interesting to at least try it out some games since they trained together in the gym earlier this summer, and probably talked hockey with each other and how to read different situations on the ice and things like that. Skjei is a much better skater compare to M. Staal it`s day & night with overall speed, but acceleration is important in such a shutdown role. And Kevin Shattenkirk with more offensive zone start due to his finishing skills.

 

[Kovalev27]

Guys you can’t have it both ways. You want the coach to hold everyone accountable or just the guys you don’t like? Smith and DeAngelo both played two bad games. Smith has been bad and looks out of shape since the first preseason game. So they’re sitting for two inferior players who worked harder and contributed to a win and a shutout. They go back in pretty simple.

Chytil went in there between two solid vets and looked completely lost. In way over his head. So AV pulled him out to limit any possible damage including possible injury.

AV’s job is to win hockey games. Not babysit. It’s also funny that some don’t think AV and Gorton are talking everyday on these roster decisions. Of course they are

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

They didn't contribute to the win, they were completely out matched and a liability out there, Hank completely saved them.
So if accountability is a thing then Holden and Kampfer should be out even if we beat Habs.