Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part IX: Can't take Staal away from AV

[bernmeister]

this morning's Yardbarker had a link to Post story; Brooks needs to be called out here.

We all have hits and misses. Larry, this one is a miss.

UNCONDITIONALLY, Rangers will not and should not do the stupid, idiotic move of going after -- and now paying in trade currency for previously available as a UFA --- Joe Thornton.

When are YOU going to BEND, BUCKLE AND BREAK with this foolish instigation of resurrecting a failed win now policy that GMJG is ignoring and for the most part, properly attempting to build? A couple of cheap vets for depth insurance is fine, but for the most part we should be acquiring and playing kids so as to enlarge our young core.

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Item 2 - you acknowledge there in that "it is not that Miller... can not play Center" [or to that effect if not verbatim], but you then say that taking Miller away from W depletes us there.

Execution is difficult, but theory here is not rocket science.
Find the combos that produce the best chemistry while maximizing assets.

Clearly, Kreider and Zib got it going on. But I think we are best served with each on W, a lefty - righty powerhouse combo, especially if an ideal pivot can be had for them. JT is your man. Has enough speed, strong and fiesty, skillful passer, great chemistry with either.

Stop forcing other Ws on this for an alternate scenario which = a lesser line. So that's another no for you on this article.

I don't give a rat's ass about rookie mistakes from Andersson and Chytil, Play them growing pains and all. The faster that is started the faster it is finished and we will be closer to hitting on all cylinders. Boo should be our 4C. Miller at 1C, Hayes 2C. We have enough options.

Here is one for ya. Just give me the credit for the idea when you use it in your column. Desharnais + Holden + 4th for Helm + 2nd. On top of pick upgrade, Rangers get better version of DD, eases logjam slightly at surplus LD, while Detroit gets 1.2 immediate cap savings, and easier ability to liquidate the rest of Helm's 3.8 cap hit more quickly.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Nah, it's just offda as usual calling Nash invisible while ignoring reality. For someone who's been completely invisible, it's weird how he leads our team in ixGF, scoring chances for, and high-danger corsi for. Invisible, things and stuff, muffins, etc.

so then were back to that again ?

hes a very solid 3rd line defensive type checking guy who has lost the ability to finish those high- danger metric crowd loving chances. the closer he gets to the target, the more he misses.

his ability to get from point A to point B seems to still be there and his stride looks solid so far, but when he gets there he continues to look like that guy on my old roller hockey team that shoots it like hes got lobster claws for hands.

im sure hell have a stretch where they start going in, but until then, im gonna still live in realville and call a spade a spade.

NASH= Not Alota Scores Happening

 

[TheBloodyNine]

AV is already continuing the sabotage of the team that he started in the playoffs last year. Get this guy out of here. Really hoping this slow start continues and he gets the boot.

 

[Ail]

NASH= Not Alota Scores Happening

How long did that take you to conjure up?

 

[offdacrossbar]

How long did that take you to conjure up?

um, obviously not that long

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Cracknell almost certainly spells Chytil's end, so I wonder what lines are rolled now.

Assuming something like

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Nash - Miller - Zucc
Vesey - Hayes - Grabner
Carey - Desharnais - Cracknell

Then replace Carey with Fast when he's back.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

How long did that take you to conjure up?

He had to dig deep to keep up his streak of "days I've ripped on Rick Nash for no reason".

 

[East Coast Bias]

this morning's Yardbarker had a link to Post story; Brooks needs to be called out here.

We all have hits and misses. Larry, this one is a miss.

UNCONDITIONALLY, Rangers will not and should not do the stupid, idiotic move of going after -- and now paying in trade currency for previously available as a UFA --- Joe Thornton.

When are YOU going to BEND, BUCKLE AND BREAK with this foolish instigation of resurrecting a failed win now policy that GMJG is ignoring and for the most part, properly attempting to build? A couple of cheap vets for depth insurance is fine, but for the most part we should be acquiring and playing kids so as to enlarge our young core.

------

Item 2 - you acknowledge there in that "it is not that Miller... can not play Center" [or to that effect if not verbatim], but you then say that taking Miller away from W depletes us there.

Execution is difficult, but theory here is not rocket science.
Find the combos that produce the best chemistry while maximizing assets.

Clearly, Kreider and Zib got it going on. But I think we are best served with each on W, a lefty - righty powerhouse combo, especially if an ideal pivot can be had for them. JT is your man. Has enough speed, strong and fiesty, skillful passer, great chemistry with either.

Stop forcing other Ws on this for an alternate scenario which = a lesser line. So that's another no for you on this article.

I don't give a rat's ass about rookie mistakes from Andersson and Chytil, Play them growing pains and all. The faster that is started the faster it is finished and we will be closer to hitting on all cylinders. Boo should be our 4C. Miller at 1C, Hayes 2C. We have enough options.

Here is one for ya. Just give me the credit for the idea when you use it in your column. Desharnais + Holden + 4th for Helm + 2nd. On top of pick upgrade, Rangers get better version of DD, eases logjam slightly at surplus LD, while Detroit gets 1.2 immediate cap savings, and easier ability to liquidate the rest of Helm's 3.8 cap hit more quickly.

So renting Thornton for a year at pro-rated 8m is a disaster, but trading for Darren HELM at 4m per year until 2021 is the path forward?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

So renting Thornton for a year at pro-rated 8m is a disaster, but trading for Darren HELM at 4m per year until 2021 is the path forward?

Don't try to reason with madness.

 

[RangerBoy]

Joe Thornton is the new Keith Tkachuk. The Rangers were always linked to Tkachuk. The Rangers need a 40 year old center to push them over the top. The entire league is getting fast and faster every single year. Brooksie likes the old slow guys like Kovalchuk and Thornton. Jagr too.

 

[RangerBoy]

Darren Helm is an overpriced role player with a bad back.

 

[offdacrossbar]

He had to dig deep to keep up his streak of "days I've ripped on Rick Nash for no reason".

16-17 and 17-18 last 2o reg season games he's 5/2/7

7 points in 20 games.
2 assists

for a guy who drives the offense. thats bad

16-17 12 playoffs games

3/2/5

again same trend.

he is what he is a semi- productive overpaid 3rd liner.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Joe Thornton is the new Keith Tkachuk. The Rangers were always linked to Tkachuk. The Rangers need a 40 year old center to push them over the top. The entire league is getting fast and faster every single year. Brooksie likes the old slow guys like Kovalchuk and Thornton. Jagr too.

the new nhl is mcdavid, mathews , eichel, etc. speed, speed, speed.

to even consider thornton is a joke. and we didnt want jagr ?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

the new nhl is mcdavid, mathews , eichel, etc. speed, speed, speed.

to even consider thornton is a joke. and we didnt want jagr ?

Smart speed as opposed to Lisin speed

 

[Ola]

I agree for sure with Custance, was talking to a friend the other day about the NHL and said the same thing to him. I thought our Colorado game especially was played at a furious pace for being a game between NYR and COL in October... This was also the case for some of our pre-season games.

I think to some extent the ramification of it remains to be seen a bit. The reason for it is obvious, when the league is getting softer and more teams start to play a style that benefits the speedy players -- you do not only get teams trying to play a faster style -- you also get rosters full of speedy players. The increase in speed is "exponential". With that said -- smaller and faster players also in a sense makes it easier for the big PF that manage to keep up enough to play since he will protect the puck against smaller Ds. I am sure the speed of the game this season will be faster this season, but the increase could fall off a bit if teams start to be reward more from controlling the play a little more.

Re. Thornton, before the POs started last season I made several posts arguing for Gorton to trade Stepan and sign Jumbo to a 1 year deal. But I just changed my mind when I saw PO hockey and was reminded of how fast it is. Sure you can always question if a player couldn't be hid in the lineup and just contribute in a few areas they still are good in, maybe we could do it with Jumbo too. But like, we should thrive to get faster.

 

[Lion Hound]

Joe Thornton is the new Keith Tkachuk. The Rangers were always linked to Tkachuk. The Rangers need a 40 year old center to push them over the top. The entire league is getting fast and faster every single year. Brooksie likes the old slow guys like Kovalchuk and Thornton. Jagr too.

This is so true. Every season Rangers in on Tkachuk. It was like they were trying to will it to happen.

Rangers don't need Joe Thornton. Stay the pace with the adding of the younger players. Don't trade the damn picks. Draft smart and build it from within. It so much fun watching these kids play right now. There's new guns coming in every season and they are putting the fans on their feet.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Why are we talking about Joe Thornton?

 

[NickyFotiu]

You debate like a college student @RGY . Personally I don`t debate to win arguments here, but some of us enjoy discussing what is going on in AV land. And how is our 4th line dominating the NHL 2017-18 season so far - if someone said it like that it would be completely wrong. The truth is our 4th line is struggling, and Jeff Gorton doing some changes in attempt to get someone going on that 4th line with that waiver move earlier this evening.

Why I mention TOI argument is that AV believe to give players who produce more ice time - `if you want more ice time, fine show it to me`, quote, AV.
But it affect the whole line up and it will cause changes too often - also on our defensive pair decisions which end up with some rotations like last night, and it will hurt our consistency for sure on some of our players.
Zucc cold again after 4 points in Leaf on the same line with Hayes & Vesey last game. It`s just one example, and Nash is stone cold based on poor pre season planing, and some mention it earlier here: It feels like pre season is extended some weeks - while AV trying to figure out how to find chemistry.

@Ori this made me chuckle. Zooks has played 3 games. He produced points in 2 of his 3 games despite having his linemates changed often. He has 5 points in 3 games. Even a Gretzky/Crosby robot child made in a lab would not score in every game. I do not know if that means he is "cold again"

 

[NickyFotiu]

Why are we talking about Joe Thornton?

I like Joe plus he has 1 more point than Lias Anderson.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

to even consider thornton is a joke. and we didnt want jagr ?

Thornton is better than Jagr. And he's a center...?

 

[Off Sides]

Zbad might become a top line center, how about they let that develop, see where it goes before giving AV the option of replacing him with Thornton as the top line and top PP center?

 

[Ori]

@NickyFotiu He is not cold, but his hot streak is over is a better use of words. But it`s not that important, and I think it will be difficult for Zucc to get Vesey going which is my point.
Miller & Zucc had good chemistry earlier some years ago - I would try that first in some games. My main reason someone need to tell Zucc to finish on that Hayes line - he is by far the best finisher on that line, but he use it way too seldom. Coaches need to tell Zucc to shot the puck since he has an accurate shot. I notice that on some PP last game - on one occasion there he need to shot it from a pass from Buch.

Because he know when too pass if he sees an opening, and he is an elite passer. He just need to finish plays once in a while - in 3 games 2 shots total is way too little for him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

@NickyFotiu He is not cold, but his hot streak is over is a better use of words. But it`s not that important, and I think it will be difficult for Zucc to get Vesey going which is my point.
Miller & Zucc had good chemistry earlier some years ago - I would try that first in some games. My main reason someone need to tell Zucc to finish on that Hayes line - he is by far the best finisher on that line, but he use it way too seldom. Coaches need to tell Zucc to shot the puck since he has an accurate shot. I notice that on some PP last game - on one occasion there he need to shot it from a pass from Buch.

@Ori I totally agree with you that Zooks should play with JT. They have often played very well together. JT's best moments in last years playoffs were with Zooks. I also agree that Zooks needs to be told to shoot more. He has been told that for years but right now he needs to be told that again for sure. With that said maybe we have a language difference here but Zooks not scoring in 1 game out of 3 is not what I would say is "cold again". I just chuckled at that phrase. Even I do not score every game lol

 

[Levitate]

Saying Zucc should shoot more and be a finisher on a line is...it's not wrong that he should shoot more but at this point in his career you're kind of trying to turn him into something that he is not. He's not going to become the shooter on a line, he's always going to be a mostly pass first player. It may fit thematically but realistically he's not likely to make a big change to his style of game at this point.

Yes he should shoot more, no I don't think he'll ever do it enough to be the finisher on a line.

 

[Hire Sather]

Dan Boyle also fits the bill of guys we were always in on. Eventually got him. Heading into that offseason it felt like a foregone conclusion.