Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
A few of us predicted this (I think you were one of them?). I'd love to have that 4.35 back on the cap. He's a jack of no trades...master of nothing. What a stupid, stupid contract.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part IX: Can't take Staal away from AV
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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A few of us predicted this (I think you were one of them?). I'd love to have that 4.35 back on the cap. He's a jack of no trades...master of nothing. What a stupid, stupid contract.
I agree, Smith is playing like a 3rd pairing defender at the moment - and don`t look interested at all like no urgency. He need to start being physical.
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
Even when he plays physical, it still doesn't make the contract worth what we are paying. He's a crappier version of KK. Smith is irritable and kind of scrappy, but not near the badass Klein was...and he's not better at hockey. I think people want Smith to be a badass, so they project it on him.
Yes, I was concerned in pre season after he signed that contract, but it was pre season and did not bother with it too much. I just saw that he had a modified NTC with a 15 team list in his contract - when we are going to use Graves or Pionk in his position and time to move him for a ELC guy maybe as fast as next year.
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NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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He is a 3rd pairing guy who can fill in on the 2nd pairing when playing well. Right now he isn't playing well.
So, lets talk about the 900 lb gorilla in the room: the role of defensemen in today's NHL.
Yes, the idea and ideal today is that a Dman must, first and foremost, be able to move the puck quickly out of the zone, perhaps with a transition pass or by carrying the puck himself, and hopefully contribute offensively in a speed oriented game. One of the principles of this way of thinking is that the less time you spend defending, the less pressure there will be on your goalie, the more time you will spend in the opposition's end and the more offensive chances you will have. Perhaps we have lost sight of what should be the primary role of Dmen: to play defense first and foremost.
Yes, there is certainly plenty of blame to go around that accounts for our poor defensive start: a aging goalie who is no longer capable of covering up for his team's defensive lapses and atrocious down low coverage by our forwards. Yes, the ideal is to have defensemen who can be strong in both defending and in playing a speed, transition game. But the number of guys who can do both at a high level is finite. We have one: McD. Perhaps Skjei one day, but not yet. Not Shatty, not TDA (why do I keep thinking of Travid d'Arnaud? I kind of like ADA better), not Smith. Staal, who was once an elite defender, is not so any longer.
What do I mean by being able to play defense, first and foremost? To play strong in front of your own net to keep the crease clear, to be sound postionally, to be able to clear the puck away from the crease, to make smart decisions as to coverage and when to block shots, in the neutral zone to keep the gaps tight, to control the blueline. Perhaps we have forgotten that this should be the primary #1 job of defensemen. The thinking is, that if you can't move the puck, you are not an NHL Dman. Perhaps it should read: if you can not play defense, you are not an NHL Dman.
Now, I am not arguing or saying that we should go back to the days when slow-f00ted pylons were the norm. I am not so foolish as to think that things were better in the old days. What I am beginning to think is that perhaps we have gone to far in the other direction. It is not like Shattenkirk (or Yandle before him) is an incandescent talent like Brian Leetch: on a whole other level offensively and who made himself into a pretty good defender. I'm not quite sure that, on balance, Dmen like Shattenkirk (and perhaps TDA one day) are as valuable as we make them out to be. On balance, they might hurt as much as they help, particularly on a team that has other defensive deficiencies.
This team is in trouble defensively: certainly it will get better but it might never be "good." We might need guys who can play strong in their own end more than guys who can contribute on the other end. Right now our D mix is not good: McD is a fine defenseman but not so elite that we can make up for poor play by his partner. Skjei is still growing; but to "grow" on a poor defensive team is not easy and can lead to stunted growth. I'm sorry, Shattenkirk and TDA have a long way to go to show me that they are capable of playing defense. We should have no illusions about Smith. He never lived up to his promise in Detroit, played himself down the pairings and eventually out of town. Yes, he was really good for us and I was all for resigning him, but it won't be the first time that we were taken in by a brief sample size. Staal is what he is: a ghost of what he was. Holden is not the answer. Graves might be an NHL defender now, but he would be a rookie. Pionk might be another example of what passes for an NHL defender these days but like TDA, might be one dimensional. At this point Bereglazov is a cipher and has been a disappointment.
Now, I'm just throwing this out here for discussion. I'm not even convinced of my own argument. I'm just suggesting that we may have lost sight of the primary job of an NHL defenseman: to play defense. In this day and age that might mean spending less time in your own zone by moving the puck through passing or carrying it yourself. But the other team is trying to do the same thing. No matter what you do, you will be spending significant time in your own zone and you must defend. If you goaltending is mediocre and your forwards are not doing their job, there is going to be pressure on your D in your own zone. You must be able to defend. I'm not sure this group of six is capable of doing that. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not encouraged.
Discuss.
Yes, the idea and ideal today is that a Dman must, first and foremost, be able to move the puck quickly out of the zone, perhaps with a transition pass or by carrying the puck himself, and hopefully contribute offensively in a speed oriented game. One of the principles of this way of thinking is that the less time you spend defending, the less pressure there will be on your goalie, the more time you will spend in the opposition's end and the more offensive chances you will have. Perhaps we have lost sight of what should be the primary role of Dmen: to play defense first and foremost.
Yes, there is certainly plenty of blame to go around that accounts for our poor defensive start: a aging goalie who is no longer capable of covering up for his team's defensive lapses and atrocious down low coverage by our forwards. Yes, the ideal is to have defensemen who can be strong in both defending and in playing a speed, transition game. But the number of guys who can do both at a high level is finite. We have one: McD. Perhaps Skjei one day, but not yet. Not Shatty, not TDA (why do I keep thinking of Travid d'Arnaud? I kind of like ADA better), not Smith. Staal, who was once an elite defender, is not so any longer.
What do I mean by being able to play defense, first and foremost? To play strong in front of your own net to keep the crease clear, to be sound postionally, to be able to clear the puck away from the crease, to make smart decisions as to coverage and when to block shots, in the neutral zone to keep the gaps tight, to control the blueline. Perhaps we have forgotten that this should be the primary #1 job of defensemen. The thinking is, that if you can't move the puck, you are not an NHL Dman. Perhaps it should read: if you can not play defense, you are not an NHL Dman.
Now, I am not arguing or saying that we should go back to the days when slow-f00ted pylons were the norm. I am not so foolish as to think that things were better in the old days. What I am beginning to think is that perhaps we have gone to far in the other direction. It is not like Shattenkirk (or Yandle before him) is an incandescent talent like Brian Leetch: on a whole other level offensively and who made himself into a pretty good defender. I'm not quite sure that, on balance, Dmen like Shattenkirk (and perhaps TDA one day) are as valuable as we make them out to be. On balance, they might hurt as much as they help, particularly on a team that has other defensive deficiencies.
This team is in trouble defensively: certainly it will get better but it might never be "good." We might need guys who can play strong in their own end more than guys who can contribute on the other end. Right now our D mix is not good: McD is a fine defenseman but not so elite that we can make up for poor play by his partner. Skjei is still growing; but to "grow" on a poor defensive team is not easy and can lead to stunted growth. I'm sorry, Shattenkirk and TDA have a long way to go to show me that they are capable of playing defense. We should have no illusions about Smith. He never lived up to his promise in Detroit, played himself down the pairings and eventually out of town. Yes, he was really good for us and I was all for resigning him, but it won't be the first time that we were taken in by a brief sample size. Staal is what he is: a ghost of what he was. Holden is not the answer. Graves might be an NHL defender now, but he would be a rookie. Pionk might be another example of what passes for an NHL defender these days but like TDA, might be one dimensional. At this point Bereglazov is a cipher and has been a disappointment.
Now, I'm just throwing this out here for discussion. I'm not even convinced of my own argument. I'm just suggesting that we may have lost sight of the primary job of an NHL defenseman: to play defense. In this day and age that might mean spending less time in your own zone by moving the puck through passing or carrying it yourself. But the other team is trying to do the same thing. No matter what you do, you will be spending significant time in your own zone and you must defend. If you goaltending is mediocre and your forwards are not doing their job, there is going to be pressure on your D in your own zone. You must be able to defend. I'm not sure this group of six is capable of doing that. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not encouraged.
Discuss.
boxhamster
Registered User
In the 1st played the Rangers without defensive and Lundqvist was betrayed and sold. TDA was the weakest among the weak. AV should take him out also Staal. Would try with Pionk and Bereglazov.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Lundqvist was horrible. The defense wasn't having a good game but let's not pretend Lundqvist was any better
boxhamster
Registered User
A goalie is only as good as his defense and which was not present. That was the Problem.
Amazing Kreiderman
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It's funny how he always gets praise when he gets a shutout, yet the blame is on the defense when he concedes 5
I think we play Holden tonight, but who needs the message more, Smith or ADA? Or do you play both Holden and Kampfer?
GordonGecko
First Ping Pong Ball
Smith is a playoff gamer, he earns his keep then. Not too concerned with the regular season with him. Now Shatty I really hope is not the eventual Girardi/Staal 2.0
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
I think the veteran with the big contract needs the message more. He's comfy with his new contract and Top 4 time; probably feels quite secure. ADA, to the contrary, has never had a secure spot, and probably realizes that Pionk and Bear Gloves are right on his ass. He's gonna play hard.
Send the message to the the vet...and as a friend would say, "Play da kid!"
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
You don’t give out contracts like that and not care what they do in the regular season. Or else you might not even make the playoffs.
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
You don't hand out any contract and not care about regular season performance, especially when you're a bubble team.
WesMcCauley
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- Apr 24, 2015
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Lundqvist has to be better but the first period was a complete clusterf***. He made som big saves and let in 5 goals. I read somewhere that Leafs had over 4,5ish expected goals in the first period. That says it all...
At the same time, Hank is paid to be the difference. We should expect him to save us with the kind of money he makes but he is also getting older and declining, which he has done for some seasons now.
If we were going to keep him we knew we would have to pay a good amount for what he had done and not what he would do for us. Its the way it is, but at the end of the day its still a horrible contract unless he is a top 5 goalie every season. I didnt want to let him go when we signed him, i fully understand why we gave him that contract, but i also think we would have been better off as a team not giving it to him.
My opinion on some other things:
Chytil isnt ready, and there is nothing wrong with that. He needs time to develop, send him back to Czech.
Miller should play center, its by far the best option we have. Zib-Miller-Hayes down the middle is actually pretty solid. Dont think it is much worse if worse at all than Stepan-Zib-Hayes.
Try to trade for or offersheet Athanasiou. Would fit our team perfectly, he is fast and can score. Would also very likely stop us from giving Nash an extension, which would be horrible imo because of the money we will have to give him. Cant afford it.
Get Desharnais off the pp and hopefully put him in the pressbox.
Get Nash away from Zucc! They dont have any chemistry and its nothing new. Play Nash with Hayes and Grabner as the shutdown line.
Our defense is just horrible in front of our net. DeAngelo has been bad, Staal is Staal, Shatty comes as advertised, solid but week in front of our net. Skjei and Smith has been poor aswell.
With that said we have only played two games, no need to panic yet.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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I did not want Staal to even be on the team but he was not the problem last night. In fact he played better than several guys last night.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
Have to actually get to the playoffs to be a gamer in the playoffs. Smith brings nothing if he's not effective defensively.
At least Shattenkirk can provide offense.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Just like how Stepan was not going to be traded? Haha.
Brooks is comparing the AAV of Eichel's new deal to the AAV of Crosby, Oveckin, Malkin etc. Completely ignoring the cap at the time. Classic Brooks.
WesMcCauley
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