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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part IX: Can't take Staal away from AV

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Avery16 said:
I’m betting it’s more likely Smith moves down the pairings, not up.
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Possibly. McD-Skjei could be the top pair, but that dilutes the others.

This is a soft perimeter team with not a lot of strong skaters. If early indications from pre-season and and half a week are any indication, you see teams are going for quick passes and cross passes while funneling pucks and bodies the net, and zoning up on defense.

It's a copy cat league, and most of the teams I had a chance to see are copying the Pens system.

AV playing contrarian will not work, he can talk about good looks all he wants, but it will end up being a vain exercise in vanity if they don't make adjustments. Resting on one's laurel's without a cup... that's not a good look imo.

Just one game, but it was a loss to COL of all teams, and the team did jack shit 5v5 in pre-season.
 
Mac n Gs said:


Two things: 1) Buch admitted he had injury problems, so I guess so much for the conspiracy theories about AV hating him, and 2) can Brooks make it any more obvious that he ghosts these boards with the, “But wait, isn’t this the coach who doesn’t like young guys” comment.
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I saw that article.

He's not going to hang his coach out to dry, nice of him, not sure I 100% buy what he and AV are selling though. Well, its what AV's selling, and what he has to go along with, otherwise he makes his coach look bad. He told a slightly different version of events to the Russian media.

I think we can move on from this topic to this season, but I think its leaving out a significant part of the equation to take these comments as proof of that point, and ignore other comments, which were posted here that would argue otherwise.
 
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Why not give this lineup a few games to get used to itself? How many times did McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Skjei, and Smith botch a simple d-to-d pass at our blueline last game that sent the Avs back at us with speed. Almost everything the Avs created came off of small breakdowns before we were even under pressure. Aside from Rantanen, nobody on their team created off the forecheck.

So what's more likely? Shattenkirk and McDonagh start to make simple plays away from pressure together, passes get crisper up the ice, and guys anticipate better where their teammates are going on the ice; or, none of that happens and the Rangers have a broken, terrible lineup—worse than the Avalache's, that can never score at even strength, but manages a PPG or two a game?
 
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TheDirtyH said:
Why not give this lineup a few games to get used to itself? How many times did McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Skjei, and Smith botch a simple d-to-d pass at our blueline last game that sent the Avs back at us with speed. Almost everything the Avs created came off of small breakdowns before we were even under pressure. Aside from Rantanen, nobody on their team created off the forecheck.

So what's more likely? Shattenkirk and McDonagh start to make simple plays away from pressure together, passes get crisper up the ice, and guys anticipate better where their teammates are going on the ice; or, none of that happens and the Rangers have a broken, terrible lineup—worse than the Avalache's, that can never score at even strength, but manages a PPG or two a game?
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Sorry dude everything's already bad and the season is over
 
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Ola said:
Avery- With Turris contract demands (which doesn’t seem like that nutty), I either see him as a rental or a huge investment for the future. In both cases we would have to pay Ottawa a lot to get him now as opposed to on July 1 for free. Hayes? Hayes had 49 pts last season while Turris had 55 is a much bigger role. So a 1st and 2nd in 18’? Zucc?

In the end, I just don’t think Turris would put us over the top and I don’t even think he makes much sense in the long run, and he would be a huge investment. The ends just don’t meet for me.

JMHO. :)

Hehe, George McPhee decided to call the bluffs out there or whatever the saying is and had his team play its first game ever in the NHL without its top center.

Shipachyov is waiver exempt and so is Montour, Vegas has demoted both to the AHL to get more time to try to move players they picked up in the expansion draft before they are put on waivers. GM said that demoting Shipachyov gave him two more days to work the phone from the time he had to make the cuts and the first game, which apparently wasn’t enough.

Gorton should go and get Lindberg back. He was on the third line for Vegas. Seems like he would be demoted to the 4th when Shipachyov is back.

Nieves and a 4th? A 3rd?

It would be worth it in my opinion, we need more depth this season and OL also can fill that 4th line C role in the future.
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Turris - agree w/da bold, and we should make it Nash and D'A. No picks. No higher prospects.
I get the feeling that existing contracts meaning significant $ would sit is the only reason Graves is not now on the team. Not keen to rush him out the door.

Then again, like I said, I don't invest in Turris for the year up to the TD unless I think there is a shot that Bruins would consider something around Buchnevich + Turris for McAvoy.

Lindy - welcome back at the right price

Boo - that does NOT include Nieves, not yet at this juncture.
has above average size speed and somewhere AV I believe said he has a strong shot. I acknowledge that shot still has to find the net, but this is a lot of raw ability and he also should not be discarded too quickly.


Avery16 said:
I get this, but where will we be in net in two years? I think we owe it to Hank to try for a cup with him.
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no imo
this is how we get into trouble,
No quick fixes proven not to work.
Most of our reaches are in fact overreaches and have backfired badly.
Gorton and Clark know what they are doing and how to draft.
Let's help, not hinder them.
Move senior vets.
Youth
Build
reduce false chance of win now illusion
increase actual chance of win soon improvment

Hank will play until his reflexes betray him
That could be in 3 weeks or 3 years, or more.
If he takes 1-2 mil backup money after years of big bucks, he will be our backup for as long as he can cut the mustard.

We are improving a solid foundation
As long as we don't gut the young core we can build on it and be even more contending during and by then.
 
Btw

Desharnais 1.0 expiring + Holden 1.6 expiring + a 4th
for
Helm 3.85 x 4 + a 2nd

something like that
Wings get instant 1.25 cap relief and 2 cheaper guys easier to unload, helps with cap issues

Rangers upgrade on DD, reduce logjam at LD by 1. Add to F depth for when Nash or other F is moved. Helm slightly overpriced and bucks younger trend, but is easily movable if we want to flip him down the road.
 
I'd like to see some young bucks or even Bereglazov get a look. I know the latter didn't impress at all in camp but Holden-Smith with Staal slotted upwards is terrifying. That negates all of our "progress". We had supposedly fixed the D. That's worse! Maybe DET fans were right about Smith. I'm not at all ready to write him off. I hope he and Skjei get back to last season's end of year "magic" but a lot of them DID warn us we'd end up disappointed. We, rightfully, ignored it at the time because it was working and because we'd seen the same shit with Stralman in the past and look how that turned out?

Same with Talbot and Raanta a bit. We're getting it with Pavelec now. We'll see.

But it's crystal clear Hank is starting off like he played a lot of last season. At this point it's not smart to just give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes, he has had bad starts in the past but he's getting older and that doesn't -always- work with guys. It was a risk. It is. So as of right now there's cause for concern. I said early on we could be a top 3 team in the East or a bubble/WC team. WAY too early to tell but there are as many things to like as there are to dislike and, surprisingly (to me anyway), the things to dislike are the things I expected to be much better. With Fast back and these guys learning each other and gelling, I quite like our forward group, even without a superstar. I'd like to see some different looks on D. Graves, Pionk. Maybe not just yet, but if this keeps up I think they should both get a shot. Just not at the same time and not paired together, obviously.

Hank is Hank. But we all knew he'd eventually falter. I used to -expect- he'd bounce back. Now it's more of a -hope- and I don't think Pavelec is Talbot or Raanta. I'm not used to that worry, haven't been watching the Rangers long enough. I've always seen good to great goaltending. If we get last year's Hank at $8.5M... there's no way to spin that it doesn't hurt us in a cap league. But via recent conversations with a much more positive board member, I will keep my pessimism lower. =)

I do wonder if Nell or Georgiev get a look. Graves, Pionk, Bereglazov.

And I do wonder if we can get Shesty here next season.
 
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Smith is seeming like a misadventure. It’s pretty breathtaking that he had -zero- hits in almost 15:00 TOI tonight. Not sure what Nash is bringing to the team this season either.
 
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I've mentioned this before, we need to consider trading for a goalie, if we want to be any type of competitive this year. Las Vegas just traded Pickard for nearly nothing. We might very well have a bad starting goalie and a bad back up goalie with absolutely zero depth in the minors. So I'm not saying trade for a starter, but there are guys out there that could be had for a late round pick or an okay prospect that could help us out, take some of the work load off of Hank. I just do not get the sense that Pavelec is going to be like Raanta or Talbot. And if he is not and Hank plays like last season, we'll be competing for a Rasmus Dahlin lottery spot more than a playoff spot.

As I've mentioned before, we gotta try our best to get Shestyorkin over here next season, even if Hank does rebound this season. Hank's 35, even if he somehow finds a way to rebound this season. One of these seasons he's going to severely decline (if he's not done so already), you can't expect him to be good for another five years. Shestyorkin's just wasting his time at this point over in Russia, way too good for that league. If he was in the AHL instead of KHL, there's no way they'd be able to keep him down in the minors instead of calling him up. Bring him over, he's at the age that a player like him should be joining the NHL, buy out the final year of his contract, put bonuses in that are easy to reach (so he gets that money back). He'll want to come over here as long as he's compensated with the money.
 
It's two games, everyone needs to relax. These are the first two games that this team has essentially played together. They'll get it together in time for their long homestead this month. Just give it time.

The offense is fine. The defense will tighten up and adjustments will be made.
 
I'd argue the offense isn't fine. The PP is fine, but 5-v-5 is a struggle, and as the season wears on yes our defense will improve, but so will defenses around the league, making it even tougher to score 5-v-5.
 
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The Stepan trade is borderline disaster and it remind me of a typical plane crash at the moment - if Holden get in for Tony DeAngelo who was horrific last night.
 
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