Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[80shockeywasbuns]

Phil Kessel has three Cups.

Patrick Kane, who is legitimately lazy outside of the offensive zone, has three Cups.

Marian Gaborik, who got absolutely abused on this board by folks like you, was instrumental in the Kings winning the Cup.

Soft, lazy Chris Kreider is one of the best elimination game performers in NHL history.

Who on Tampa was big and tough? Barclay Goodrow? He sucks. Two Cups.

People said Nikita Kucherov was a soft lazy euro who was incompatible with playoff hockey and now I’m sure he’s a clutch performer with “snarl” according to the same people

 

[Machinehead]

A 33 shot differential seems massive then, ouch. But I still think it's a little unfair to pin it all on him when he's not the only guy out there. Is there a huge difference in Miller's numbers when he's not out there with Trouba? I ask because, to my eyes, it seems like Miller has been making a number of awful decisions this season and getting caught a lot whereas Trouba's problems seem to be more about coverage in their own end and the fact that the puck has been like a grenade on his stick.

Without Trouba, Miller goes down to 58.37. It's still not great. Miller has warts defensively and the whole team isn't great at it, I think that's fair, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a single guy on the team who isn't much better at shot suppression without Trouba.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

People said Nikita Kucherov was a soft lazy euro who was incompatible with playoff hockey and now I’m sure he’s a clutch performer with “snarl” according to the same people

Who said that about Kucherov? You know there is a world where good teams have a mixture of both, snarl and skill. You should ask some NHL coaches and players how important intangibles like that are, especially in the playoffs. But I guess it's cooler for guys like you to mock it and just drop a graph or meme instead.

 

[McRanger92]

People said Nikita Kucherov was a soft lazy euro who was incompatible with playoff hockey and now I’m sure he’s a clutch performer with “snarl” according to the same people

He changed his play style and the narrative around him changed, He was a perimeter playing cheap shot artist until after that CBJ series. Now he’s an in your face, straight ahead cheap shot artist with 2 Cups. In the words of Hubie Brown, give the guy a ton of credit.

I’d like to see Panarin and Mika make this adjustment to their games.

 

[Mac n Gs]

With this whole playoff discussion, why is it always lost that the archetypes that people cite in STL and VGK had a rare combination of guys that had size, speed, and an actual ability to move the puck. No one ever mentions it being an issue for Colorado steamrolling their way to the Cup with a smaller defense. Tampa’s in the same vein as STL and VGK: their main guys were huge and could move the puck.

You need to be able to defend the house, but if you can’t keep the puck away from it, you’re not going to win. We need more of a punch from our forward group. Chytil back and healthy will be a huge boost. They still need more there.

 

[Machinehead]

Would love to see Cuylle on a line with some skill.

I see Cuylle as a Pouliot or a Hagelin. Not in terms of style, necessarily, but the type of guy who makes a scoring line better as opposed to playing in the bottom six.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Between that, the Goodrow fluff and calling 2020 Staal "stable" this may be the worst thing he's ever written.

One of the most embarrassing things I’ve read from him. He actually tried to ego NYR fans as if they can’t comprehend Goodrows “contributions” . What an old clueless bum, complete loser

 

[hardnosed]

To me he looks more like a guy who shouldn’t even be in the league. He’s got the foot speed of Lizzo, no edges, no IQ, no composure or puck skills to make passes under forecheck pressure. Just a prototypical cone that coaches love because he’s a large American and deals out some CTE once a week

This actually happens in every sport all the time. A guy gets by because he's just more physically gifted. He can cover for his mistakes when he's 23. But when he's 30, all of a sudden him being clueless and out of position can't be covered for anymore. His hockey sense is severely lacking. He causes his own problems by his decision making. And I'm talking only about when he doesn't have the puck. He just has no feel of what he's supposed to do or where he's supposed to be

 

[SA16]

Blocking shots is much more of a function of wanting to block shots than how many shot attempts you allow while on the ice. The shot differential becomes pretty minimal.

For example.

The Rangers have allowed 67 CA60 with Trouba on the ice this year. The Avalanche have allowed 56 CA60 with Makar on the ice. Trouba averages 18 minutes per game at 5v5. That's 3.3 shot attempts per 18 minutes for Trouba vs Makar. About 29% of shot attempts get blocked. So now you're at 1 shot blocked per game (at Trouba's ice time) different between Trouba and Makar. That 1 blocked shot is going to be split between 5 different skaters on the ice. Trouba has 47% of the teams blocks while on the ice. So now you're at ~0.45-0.50 more blocks per game for Trouba with a different of 11 shot attempts. The affect of shot attempts allowed compared to a players actual desire to block is very minimal.

 

[McRanger92]

With this whole playoff discussion, why is it always lost that the archetypes that people cite in STL and VGK had a rare combination of guys that had size, speed, and an actual ability to move the puck. No one ever mentions it being an issue for Colorado steamrolling their way to the Cup with a smaller defense. Tampa’s in the same vein as STL and VGK: their main guys were huge and could move the puck.

You need to be able to defend the house, but if you can’t keep the puck away from it, you’re not going to win. We need more of a punch from our forward group. Chytil back and healthy will be a huge boost. They still need more there.

I think our forward group is Cup worthy at full strength. I think the punch we need from our forward group is more sustainable play at 5v5 from Zibanejad and Kreider. Much like miller and Trouba this is an area that I believe could be improved with breaking them up

 

[mas0764]

Per NST, Trouba away from Miller and Fox, the two best defensemen on the team, he has the following at 5v5:

39.7 CF%
28.5% GF%
40% xGF% & SCF%

This is mostly when he is paired with Lindgren because his numbers with Gus are not that bad (xGF% is 42% but everything else is improved around 47-48%).

Kinda sinks my argument that Lindgren should pair with Trouba then, from a logical standpoint.

Though strengthens my argument that we need to trick another stupid GM (of which there are many) into paying us a first for Trouba in about 6 months.

 

[zlev]

When you play against the opponents best players and your forwards don’t back check consistently. You get hemmed in a lot. Trouba aint innocent in those situations either. The whole team is bad at clearing the zone without icing the puck. Too much stick checking and reaching instead of feet moving. It’s why I hesitate to say it’s on one guy.

trouba gets hemmed in a lot because the other team has at least 9 forwards that he cant handle.

 

[Machinehead]

Imagine looking at this defense and thinking "You know what they need, to get bigger and tougher on the 3rd pair."


They need to get their 9.5 million dollar defenseman a better partner.

And also, maybe, crazy idea, play their 9.5 million dollar defenseman the most minutes.

I'm not asking Laviolette to sit Trouba or not give him top 4 minutes. I'm trying to realistic about it.

I'm asking him to use a Norris winner as his 1D. It's a small ask.

 

[I Eat Crow]

You guys like these soft finesse players and those players don't win in the playoffs. 90% of this board has the Rangers mentality of acquiring soft players. We discuss this topic every year on the board. The Rangers keep losing and we blame the coach who is playing the players given to him by management.

Brian Boyle has discussed getting another big D. Nick Seeler. Protect and defend the front of the net.

Fine with me as a 7th defenseman to platoon with Gustafsson. These slow, plodding defensemen that can't move the puck don't go well with Laviolette's game plan. It's no wonder to me that Lindgren and Trouba are playing the worst hockey of their careers. They're not cut out for this coach.

 

[McRanger92]

And also, maybe, crazy idea, play their 9.5 million dollar defenseman the most minutes.

I'm not asking Laviolette to sit Trouba or not give him top 4 minutes. I'm trying to realistic about it.

I'm asking him to use a Norris winner as his 1D. It's a small ask.

Agreed that Lavi should do this but Fox admitting he was still getting comfortable post-injury makes me think they don’t want to overload him when the hope is that we’re playing deep into June. They’ve been cautious with all the injuries this year. Also more Fox apparently requires more Lindgren and that’s a careful what you wish for scenario lol.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

With this whole playoff discussion, why is it always lost that the archetypes that people cite in STL and VGK had a rare combination of guys that had size, speed, and an actual ability to move the puck. No one ever mentions it being an issue for Colorado steamrolling their way to the Cup with a smaller defense. Tampa’s in the same vein as STL and VGK: their main guys were huge and could move the puck.

You need to be able to defend the house, but if you can’t keep the puck away from it, you’re not going to win. We need more of a punch from our forward group. Chytil back and healthy will be a huge boost. They still need more there.

It’s definitely interesting how much attention TBL/VGK seem to get compared to COL. A team went 16-4 in the big bad gritty playoffs sucking ass at faceoffs, not hitting, and getting sub .900 goaltending. Being really deep and skilled and fast is kinda good

 

[Machinehead]

Agreed that Lavi should do this but Fox admitting he was still getting comfortable post-injury makes me think they don’t want to overload him when the hope is that we’re playing deep into June. They’ve been cautious with all the injuries this year. Also more Fox apparently requires more Lindgren and that’s a careful what you wish for scenario lol.

While that's true and Lindgren murders offense in a truly special way, that pair can still defend and they should be out there in those situations, not the two dumb trees.

 

[Savant]

Chychrun has one more year left before UFA. An extension would be top pairing large. The cost to acquire will be close to top pairing large. What I'm reading is KAM up on the top pair with Fox and you've paid an exorbitant amount for a top pairing guy to underutilize him as a 2nd pairing guy. There's other holes to fill. LD doesn't need to be so stacked. There's a cap and forward talent matters more.

again completely disagree. Rangers have forwards on ELCs they can bring in. They do not have Dmen.

And if Chychrun doesn’t work out, then just don’t sign him. No need to double down on a mistake. There is no such thing as “underutilizing” a 2nd pair Dman. That’s ridiculous. They are still playing a ton a minutes. You take Chychun for a year at his current price and you figure the rest out later. No blind extensions like they did with Trouba.

 

[McRanger92]

It’s definitely interesting how much attention TBL/VGK seem to get compared to COL. A team went 16-4 in the big bad gritty playoffs sucking ass at faceoffs, not hitting, and getting sub .900 goaltending. Being really deep and skilled and fast is kinda good

Colorado in 22 certainly looks like the exception to the rule considering Washington/STL/Tampa/Vegas won the other 5 of 6 cups since PIT’s last hurrah. The Avs also added Lehkonen and Manson at the deadline that year. 2 huge additions on the defensive side of things. Contenders that play big and have their best guys show up are usually still standing at the end.

 

[bbny]

again completely disagree. Rangers have forwards on ELCs they can bring in. They do not have Dmen.

And if Chychrun doesn’t work out, then just don’t sign him. No need to double down on a mistake. There is no such thing as “underutilizing” a 2nd pair Dman. That’s ridiculous. They are still playing a ton a minutes. You take Chychun for a year at his current price and you figure the rest out later. No blind extensions like they did with Trouba.

What do you think Chychrun will cost in a trade?

 

[Savant]

What do you think Chychrun will cost in a trade?

Note - I am not locked into Chychrun.

With that being said I’m starting with Lindgren and attaching whatever else I need to for any Dman upgrade this deadline. Don’t really care about pick/prospects. Drury can figure that out. But yeah, Lindgren+ ; I am floating that to these teams that have a UFA guy that they can move for Lindgren’s RFA control and perceived intangible toughness value.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Who said that about Kucherov? You know there is a world where good teams have a mixture of both, snarl and skill. You should ask some NHL coaches and players how important intangibles like that are, especially in the playoffs. But I guess it's cooler for guys like you to mock it and just drop a graph or meme instead.

Everyone said it about him. And Sergachev and Stamkos and every core ever that has prolonged success without winning a cup like TOR or great players on bad teams like Phil Kessel and Jack Eichel. I’m not disputing the idea that winning teams are a combination of skill + grit/snarl/sandpaper/whatever. I’m mocking the clowns who declare players as mentally weak soft losers and then do a complete 180 and say they had these qualities all along after they win. Or just make some convenient narrative to explain it like this:

Now he’s an in your face, straight ahead cheap shot artist with 2 Cups.

 

[McRanger92]

Everyone said it about him. And Sergachev and Stamkos and every core ever that has prolonged success without winning a cup like TOR or great players on bad teams like Phil Kessel and Jack Eichel. I’m not disputing the idea that winning teams are a combination of skill + grit/snarl/sandpaper/whatever. I’m mocking the clowns who declare players as mentally weak soft losers and then do a complete 180 and say they had these qualities all along after they win. Like this:

You can remember it how you want but Kucherov was a huge reason why they lost in 2020. Panarin embarrassed him. And he was suspended for an idiotic play in game 3. The criticism was earned and so was the credit when they won. Everyone’s a loser until they show they aren’t. Not sure why that’s an out of bounds take for a fan to have

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

View attachment 805601


We wouldn't need his PP offense so it works out fine. His 3 year is about the same.... a little worse defense

I feel like he's the perfect player to bring in and replace Lindgren long term but he's going to be paid big time, some team is probably going to throw #1D money at him.

 

[NYR Viper]

I feel like he's the perfect player to bring in and replace Lindgren long term but he's going to be paid big time, some team is probably going to throw #1D money at him.

Rumor has it that he wants the Toews contract. That's $7.25m per year. I'd pay that over 7 years. Having Hanifan, Miller and Fox on the back end moving forward would be quite the coup.