Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[hardnosed]

Gus is better than Lindgren.

Gus sucks at defense. We can argue about whether his offense makes him a better player than Lindgren but 31 other teams don't think so because he's been bounced around for years and can't find a job. If you take a photo of when the puck enters our net when Gus is on the ice, you will see him standing around with nobody within 10 feet of him.
He's a nice 6th man. But you will be very disappointed if you put him in the top 4.

 

[Daves a mess]

I think it's a combo of all that. He's never been 'good', but he was 'useful' in the past. I would have said his job, and his strength, is being the worst player on his line within the top-9 and doing the dirty jobs that no-one else wants to do that allow the better players to do their thing. He doesn't seem to have a role this year, as evidenced by the fact that he wasn't really bumped up anywhere on the lineup while we've had top-6 forwards injured.
He's not going to produce when Vesey has been by far his best linemate and the other two he's played with most are Pitlick and Bonino. But even on those lines he needs to show something

After 1/2 a season he's on pace to have about 120 minutes less of ice time than last season, so it's probably safe to assume Lavi doesn't really see a fit for him.

I've always said that from this TDL onwards he was movable with a bit of retention, but his play this year makes it a lot harder

Look at Goodrows #'s pre broken foot and his admirable attempt to play on it too soon in the playoffs (Pittsburgh)?

After that is where I personally saw his play significantly deteriorate.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gus sucks at defense. We can argue about whether his offense makes him a better player than Lindgren but 31 other teams don't think so because he's been bounced around for years and can't find a job. If you take a photo of when the puck enters our net when Gus is on the ice, you will see him standing around with nobody within 10 feet of him.
He's a nice 6th man. But you will be very disappointed if you put him in the top 4.

There is nothing that suggests that he sucks at defense. This is like me saying that Lindgren sucks at defense and is actually carried by Fox there and honestly, there is more truth to that then you want to admit.

Gus at least has a multi layered game and has filled in all over the lineup admirably. One of the few LHD who has had to shift over to RD and did pretty well despite that. @Machinehead has already posted the %'s for Fox and Lindgren with and without each other, they aren't kind for Lindgren.

These uni-dimensional defensemen are going to be phased out of the game sooner rather than later. Ryan Lindgren is basically at the opposite extreme end as Klingberg, DeAngelo, etc and he isn't as good defensively as those guys are on offense (or were.)

If you don't like those guys, you shouldn't be about Lindgren either. He doesn't fit in with any of the other D either. He's an easy move and Gus at 2.5-3 is WAY better value than Lindgren at 4-5.

 

[hardnosed]

There is nothing that suggests that he sucks at defense. This is like me saying that Lindgren sucks at defense and is actually carried by Fox there and honestly, there is more truth to that then you want to admit.

Gus at least has a multi layered game and has filled in all over the lineup admirably. One of the few LHD who has had to shift over to RD and did pretty well despite that. @Machinehead has already posted the %'s for Fox and Lindgren with and without each other, they aren't kind for Lindgren.

These uni-dimensional defensemen are going to be phased out of the game sooner rather than later. Ryan Lindgren is basically at the opposite extreme end as Klingberg, DeAngelo, etc and he isn't as good defensively as those guys are on offense (or were.)

If you don't like those guys, you shouldn't be about Lindgren either. He doesn't fit in with any of the other D either. He's an easy move and Gus at 2.5-3 is WAY better value than Lindgren at 4-5.

Not going to argue with you. Gus sucks at defense. If he was any good at it, somebody would have paid him 5 million a year after he scored 60 points. Doesn't that make you scratch your head and wonder why? I'm done wondering. His play when the other team has the puck in our end is nonexistent.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not going to argue with you. Gus sucks at defense. If he was any good at it, somebody would have paid him 5 million a year after he scored 60 points. Doesn't that make you scratch your head and wonder why? I'm done wondering. His play when the other team has the puck in our end is nonexistent.

Again nothing that you say here is supported by anything. This is the equivilant of plugging your ears and saying "LALALALA".

Heres some hard facts for you though -

Fox With Lindgren and with other guys.

Lindgren with Fox and with other guys

Ryan Lindgren is not a guy you restructure your entire defense to keep. He's incredibly limited to the point where he is seriously handcuffing our best offensive defenseman and arguably the best player on the roster overall.

 

[hardnosed]

Again nothing that you say here is supported by anything. This is the equivilant of plugging your ears and saying "LALALALA".

Heres some hard facts for you though -

Fox With Lindgren and with other guys.

View attachment 804547

Lindgren with Fox and with other guys

View attachment 804549

Ryan Lindgren is not a guy you restructure your entire defense to keep. He's incredibly limited to the point where he is seriously handcuffing our best offensive defenseman and arguably the best player on the roster overall.

When did we decide to discuss Lindgren? What I'm saying has nothing to do with him. My statement was simply that Gus sucks at defense. We can trade Lindgren. I don't care. But Gus sucks at defense and shouldn't be a top 4 defenseman on any team that expects to go far in the playoffs.

 

[RangerBoy]

Elliotte Friedman wondered if Arthur Kaliyev could be available. Kaliyev hasn’t been playing much. I remember watching the Kings earlier this season and Kaliyev was playing with Danault and Moore. Kaliyev seemed to be a good fit on that line.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Again nothing that you say here is supported by anything. This is the equivilant of plugging your ears and saying "LALALALA".

Heres some hard facts for you though -

Fox With Lindgren and with other guys.

View attachment 804547

Lindgren with Fox and with other guys

View attachment 804549

Ryan Lindgren is not a guy you restructure your entire defense to keep. He's incredibly limited to the point where he is seriously handcuffing our best offensive defenseman and arguably the best player on the roster overall.

I apologize for my idea that Lindgren and Trouba may go together well. Yikes.

Elliotte Friedman wondered if Arthur Kaliyev could be available. Kaliyev hasn’t been playing much. I remember watching the Kings earlier this season and Kaliyev was playing with Danault and Moore. Kaliyev seemed to be a good fit on that line.

Probably the type of player the Rangers need but will never acquire. There were rumblings he dropped at the draft due to poor attitude too. Pass.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

When did we decide to discuss Lindgren? What I'm saying has nothing to do with him. My statement was simply that Gus sucks at defense. We can trade Lindgren. I don't care. But Gus sucks at defense and shouldn't be a top 4 defenseman on any team that expects to go far in the playoffs.

You said this which sparked the convo (at least from my end)

Yes, that's the issue with trading Lindgren. You must get his replacement in that deal or another deal because we have left ourselves with a 6 and 7th defensemen that can't play defense. Jones is not an NHL player and I fail to see the fascination with Gus.

The insinuation here is that Gus wouldn't be able to handle the load that Lindgren would leave behind. I don't think he's an ideal fit there either, but I have zero doubt that he'd do a better job than RL. The idea that hes brutal defensively because other teams have "passed" on him doesn't hold up. The results on ice over the last 2 seasons have been tiled in his favor in that end (and he's gotten legit top 4 minutes at times during that span and handled those minutes more than fine.) Teams do stupid shit all the time and have an obvious bias against certain types of players in favor of guys who are f***ing horrible, its why Gudbransson is making 4+ mill a year and Marc Staal continues to be employed.

I too would look to get his replacement in another deal and it shouldn't be that hard to do. It would be #1 on my to do list at the deadline this year and if not then, 1000000% #1 in the off season.

I apologize for my idea that Lindgren and Trouba may go together well. Yikes.


Probably the type of player the Rangers need but will never acquire. There were rumblings he dropped at the draft due to poor attitude too. Pass.

One guy who has had one good season transitioning the puck up ice as a Ranger and another player who has never been good at it.

I doubt the numbers would remain that bad if they actually played together on the regular but yeah, that pair would likely be butt.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The answer is Henrique, Edmundson, and Perry

When did we decide to discuss Lindgren? What I'm saying has nothing to do with him. My statement was simply that Gus sucks at defense. We can trade Lindgren. I don't care. But Gus sucks at defense and shouldn't be a top 4 defenseman on any team that expects to go far in the playoffs.

how is Gus at defense?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The answer is Henrique, Edmundson, and Perry

how is Gus at defense?

He sucks at defense.

 

[hardnosed]

He sucks at defense.

Lol. I think I got my point across. Because he scores a few points, everybody falls in love with him. And he'll probably sign another 800k contract in July.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

fluff piece:

 

[JimmyG89]

If we get the Lindgren from the last 5 or so games, we're in a decent spot for the rest of the season. He has been better, but they've has been dummying teams in shots overall. His lows have just been too low.

One thing is Drury will be aggressive ahead of the deadline. If he can make the moves necessary, he will pull the trigger now instead of waiting.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I’d trade Lindgren at the draft but would not give him to get cap space

 

[FoxyClean]

edit

 

[mas0764]

Kreider Zibanejad Kakko
Panarin Trocheck Lafreniere

Please let these lines work

 

[mas0764]

I’d trade Lindgren at the draft but would not give him to get cap space

Historically Lindgren is very good on defense. If anything he just needs to be broken up from Fox.

I’ll trade him but for a young top 6 center.

Then go get an underrated middle pair defender.

 

[Kendo]

Again nothing that you say here is supported by anything. This is the equivilant of plugging your ears and saying "LALALALA".

Heres some hard facts for you though -

Fox With Lindgren and with other guys.

View attachment 804547

Lindgren with Fox and with other guys

View attachment 804549

Ryan Lindgren is not a guy you restructure your entire defense to keep. He's incredibly limited to the point where he is seriously handcuffing our best offensive defenseman and arguably the best player on the roster overall.

Devil's advocate: Using your same tables, when the sample size gets large enough, the 55-23 pair has a GF% that outperforms the xGF% formula. Gus has been pretty good with either, interestingly. Lindy has sorta sucked with Trouba, but with Schneider looks intriguing.

"Expected stats" try to make sense of smaller sample sizes, but if they are slightly inaccurate after hefty sample sizes, then it simply proves the nature of a predictive formula (even a really good one) versus what actually happens. A stat like that certainly has value. But once you're talking about 400 minutes, that's a quarter of a season.

20-93-XX has been weird 5v5 for a lot of the season. Low event hockey. A 5v5 PK, as I like to call it. 10-16-13 has been producing, but give up some chances and goals. It makes sense that 55-23 have a break even GF%. Lindy ends up with even fewer points than normal when we just want him to be a 20 point guy! LOL Fox still gets his PPP's.

Which causes which? Offensive issues even strength, Igor being himself merely most of the time instead of all of the time, having a 5th line instead of a 3rd line, or Lindgren solely? Ryan is in a place that we could upgrade on his position, but I don't think he's "the problem."

No one's restructuring here. Restructuring specifically to get rid of him might be the mistake (getting two Gusses). Spending a little extra for a shoe-in upgrade would be awesome, though.

When did we decide to discuss Lindgren? What I'm saying has nothing to do with him. My statement was simply that Gus sucks at defense. We can trade Lindgren. I don't care. But Gus sucks at defense and shouldn't be a top 4 defenseman on any team that expects to go far in the playoffs.

It's funny. Lindgren sucks at offense and Gus sucks at defense. Miller is a freak that has so much ceiling on both sides but still a ways to go. That's not a bad left side. Having Jones or Robertson take a step forward was supposed to make us "bursting at the seams" on D. Since that didn't happen, we need a legit 6/7D at the TDL.

Warts and all, I don't think it's a bad D corps, but we don't have a "7th that pushes our top 6."

 

[FoxyClean]

Chris Kreider -- Mika Zibanejad -- Kaapo Kakko
Artemi Panarin -- Vincent Trocheck -- Alexis Lafreniere
Will Cuylle -- Filip Chytil -- Tarasenko/Duclair
Jimmy Vesey -- Nick Bonino -- Blake Wheeler
Brodzinski
Pitlick


Fire Goodrow into the sun, bring in Duclair or Tarasenko at 50%, and the forward group for the playoffs looks good.

 

[NYR Viper]

Chris Kreider -- Mika Zibanejad -- Kaapo Kakko
Artemi Panarin -- Vincent Trocheck -- Alexis Lafreniere
Will Cuylle -- Filip Chytil -- Tarasenko/Duclair
Jimmy Vesey -- Nick Bonino -- Blake Wheeler
Brodzinski
Pitlick


Fire Goodrow into the sun, bring in Duclair or Tarasenko at 50%, and the forward group for the playoffs looks good.

You mis-spelled Perry for Duclair/Tarasenko

 

[FoxyClean]

You mis-spelled Perry for Duclair/Tarasenko

Don't see our org bringing him in because of the optics.

 

[NYR Viper]

Don't see our org bringing him in because of the optics.

This team is still partially run by the guys who brought in Avery not once, but twice?

 

[FoxyClean]

This team is still partially run by the guys who brought in Avery not once, but twice?

Things were a lot different 15-20 years ago lol
A lot harder to get away with stuff these days

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Devil's advocate: Using your same tables, when the sample size gets large enough, the 55-23 pair has a GF% that outperforms the xGF% formula. Gus has been pretty good with either, interestingly. Lindy has sorta sucked with Trouba, but with Schneider looks intriguing.

"Expected stats" try to make sense of smaller sample sizes, but if they are slightly inaccurate after hefty sample sizes, then it simply proves the nature of a predictive formula (even a really good one) versus what actually happens. A stat like that certainly has value. But once you're talking about 400 minutes, that's a quarter of a season.

The Lindgren-less pairs would not perform as well under bigger minutes as they did in the samples cited (No, I don't think Fox-Gus would be a 70+ xGF pair, that would be ridiculous.)

I do believe that basically any other combo would be better though. Lindgren-Fox has the worst xGF of any of our regular pairs. Fox isn't the problem there. The hinderance that he has on offense while hes on the ice is significant and the defense isn't air tight enough to really make up for it.