Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[Machinehead]

I think breaking up Panarin / Trocheck / Lafreniere would be an immediate fireable offense.

You fix the problems another way. You don’t break up the best Rangers line in a decade, maybe decades.

It's really not that good. Holy shit. I don't get the absolute love affair with this line.

It's a top line, sure. It's any other team's top line. They're probably middle of the pack in the league in terms of top lines. "Best line in decades." Give me a break.

I guess when a fanbase is this starved for skill, effective 5v5 play, and lines with no bad players on it, this normal ass line looks like something from Team Canada.

Like, don't get me wrong, they're a good line. Nobody is saying they're a bad line. But people on here treat that line like Catholics treat the cross.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm only trading him for a slam dunk upgrade like Hanifin, but even that comes with cap issues.

It's true that his game won't last into his mid-30's, and I too can see him breaking down at 30. But he is currently *almost* 26. We can sign him for 4 years and not worry about that. It's the same old Girardi argument. Girardi did a lot of good on his three year deal before that boat anchor 6-yr deal at 30. That can certainly be worth it as long as we don't go over $4.5m or 4 years, $4.75 x 5 MAX. Refusing to re-sign him at 30 would be "undoing the mistakes of the past."

Lindgren at or close to $4m is going to be an anchor

 

[I Eat Crow]

We need him

I think he eventually ends up here for better or for worse. How the Rangers fit him in cap wise and who they trade I have no idea.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It's really not that good. Holy shit. I don't get the absolute love affair with this line.

It's a top line, sure. It's any other team's top line. They're probably middle of the pack in the league in terms of top lines. "Best line in decades." Give me a break.

I guess when a fanbase is this starved for skill, effective 5v5 play, and lines with no bad players on it, this normal ass line looks like something from Team Canada.

Like, don't get me wrong, they're a good line. Nobody is saying they're a bad line. But people on here treat that line like Catholics treat the cross.

Just curious what lines you think have been better over the last decade?

 

[Machinehead]

I'm only trading him for a slam dunk upgrade like Hanifin, but even that comes with cap issues.

It's true that his game won't last into his mid-30's, and I too can see him breaking down at 30. But he is currently *almost* 26. We can sign him for 4 years and not worry about that. It's the same old Girardi argument. Girardi did a lot of good on his three year deal before that boat anchor 6-yr deal at 30. That can certainly be worth it as long as we don't go over $4.5m or 4 years, $4.75 x 5 MAX. Refusing to re-sign him at 30 would be "undoing the mistakes of the past."

It is the same old Girardi argument.

Proponents of Girardi took the approach that what he was making was affordable and him filling that role saved us money over a legit top RD.

The other side thought Girardi just sucked and shouldn't be making anything.

Lindgren isn't that bad but he's trending towards me just not wanting him in the lineup regardless of the cap implications.

 

[McRanger92]

It is the same old Girardi argument.

Proponents of Girardi took the approach that what he was making was affordable and him filling that role saved us money over a legit top RD.

The other side thought Girardi just sucked and shouldn't be making anything.

Lindgren isn't that bad but he's trending towards me just not wanting him in the lineup regardless of the cap implications.

People saying Lindgren is "only 26" like its reassuring. He's already declining at 26, he wont be able to take a full shift by 30 at the rate hes going. Torts would love him though.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ryan Lindgren is the type of player a team like the Rangers should be able to replace either internally from their AHL team or via an inexpensive UFA. If there are teams who have trouble attracting those types of players, say Ottawa or Arizona, let them sign him to a medium term deal. The Rangers shouldn't need to allocate $3-4m to Lindgren. I'm not calling him a bad player but he's not someone they should need to sign right now with where they are what they have.

Here is a perfect example:
Ian Cole is 34 years old.
He signed a 1 year $3m deal with Vancouver this off-season.
He is playing ~19 minutes a game
5v5 possession numbers are about even
7 points in 43 games

And another one:
Carson Soucy signed a 3 year deal this past off-season for $3.25m


The Rangers don't need to sign him...

 

[Savant]

under certain circumstances, Sanderson, like say McAvoy, just not available
under other circumstances, Sanderson can be had w/overpayment

leave it to me to show that can be done in correct currency
but not now
got real world shit to deal w/for coupla days

See if I’m Ottawa (or Boston) there is no circumstances that I am making Sanderson available. And they shouldn’t. They already have invested too heavily in him. Just signed a mega extension and locked in. Just no motivation for me

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

It's really not that good. Holy shit. I don't get the absolute love affair with this line.

It's a top line, sure. It's any other team's top line. They're probably middle of the pack in the league in terms of top lines. "Best line in decades." Give me a break.

I guess when a fanbase is this starved for skill, effective 5v5 play, and lines with no bad players on it, this normal ass line looks like something from Team Canada.

Like, don't get me wrong, they're a good line. Nobody is saying they're a bad line. But people on here treat that line like Catholics treat the cross.

For me, I think it's more why separate the one line that has been working really well for the past ~2 months to try some other line combos that might work.

I think the biggest item is breaking up the Kreider-Zib combo. When Chytil is healthy:

Panarin - Trocheck - Laff
Kreider - Chyil - Vesey
Cuylle - Zib - Kakko
Goodrow - Bonino - Wheeler/Pitlick

 

[Machinehead]

Just curious what lines you think have been better over the last decade?

Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere, same season, was just as good at worse.

Panarin-Strome-Fast had a 71% goal share at even strength. 71 percent. I know "ZOMG boogah boogah Ryan Stome bad" but for a year, they were the best line in the NHL.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich, in their prime as a line, was better.

 

[Machinehead]

For me, I think it's more why separate the one line that has been working really well for the past ~2 months to try some other line combos that might work.

I think the biggest item is breaking up the Kreider-Zib combo. When Chytil is healthy:

Panarin - Trocheck - Laff
Kreider - Chyil - Vesey
Cuylle - Zib - Kakko
Goodrow - Bonino - Wheeler/Pitlick

But we already know Chytil worked just fine there and Kreider-Trocheck is a money combo. We wouldn't really be taking a risk.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The key for me would be to breakup Kreider and Zibanejad. It's stale and just doesn't work. Kreider with Trochek does work. Cuylle with Zibanejad and a playmaking RW, say Kakko would be a good unit.

That leaves:

Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Kreider-Trochek-Vesey/signing/trade
Cuylle-Zibanejad-Kakko

This is how I want things to line up once everyone's healthy. Maybe switch Vesey and Kakko to get the latter more ES minutes, but I like the theory of it.

 

[McRanger92]

Ryan Lindgren is the type of player a team like the Rangers should be able to replace either internally from their AHL team or via an inexpensive UFA. If there are teams who have trouble attracting those types of players, say Ottawa or Arizona, let them sign him to a medium term deal. The Rangers shouldn't need to allocate $3-4m to Lindgren. I'm not calling him a bad player but he's not someone they should need to sign right now with where they are what they have.

Can Scanlin not do what Lindgren does next year?

 

[Machinehead]

People saying Lindgren is "only 26" like its reassuring. He's already declining at 26, he wont be able to take a full shift by 30 at the rate hes going. Torts would love him though.

Even if he was 22, the type of player he is shouldn't be playing the role he's in. He's a #4 defenseman at best.

If the pair were elite and it's saving you money, improving depth elsewhere, then sure. They haven't been since 2022. I would argue they've been more bad than good since the short year Fox won the Norris.

I don't think we need Chris Pronger or Brian Leetch to partner with Fox by any means, but he needs a partner that can move the puck at this level.

 

[Kendo]

Vesey-Bonino-Goodrow becomes the 4th line. It's not a good fourth line, but they shouldn't allow too many goals against, either.

I just need Vesey to slow his f***ing role and put the puck behind the net and go after it when he's playing with grinders. None of this dumb lateral pass shit he's been doing the last few weeks. No risks, no pinching, just low event hockey when they're out there.

Bonino and Goodrow have both been sneaky good as 4C's, but everything goes to shite when they play together. That just goes to show you that you can get any Johnny Buttscratch for $800k to do the job, so Goodrow is $2.8 of dead cap.

 

[Machinehead]

Can Scanlin not do what Lindgren does next year?

Completely ruin Fox's offense?

Louie the Wrench can do that with a baseball bat without counting against the cap at all.

 

[NYR Viper]

Can Scanlin not do what Lindgren does next year?

I think Scanlin could be a bottom-pairing LD next year, yes. That or go out and sign someone like Ian Cole, Joel Edmundson or someone like that for a year or two at ~$2m.

 

[Machinehead]

Jesus, for $3M, they could have signed Fast and kept the best line in the league together. That's a thought I just had.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm all for "sum of their parts" combos. It's the best way to save money and have depth. I alluded to Panarin-Strome-Fast being an elite line with one great player, one annoying player, and a grinder. If it works, it works.

Lindgren-Fox isn't a good pair anymore. They haven't been for awhile.

 

[McRanger92]

Jesus, for $3M, they could have signed Fast and kept the best line in the league together. That's a thought I just had.

Another Gorton/Davidson masterclass

 

[Machinehead]

Another Gorton/Davidson masterclass

It seems easy, but they never found what Fast had with Panarin. Even now, it's not as good as that line was. Sometimes when something just works, you let it just work.

I'll give Drury credit, upgrading from Strome to Trocheck was a great move because Trocheck can play the same role on the Panarin line but also actually play on other lines. That's something I'm interested in because I'm beginning to think just about any center can play with Panarin. I mean...

RW has been a harder nut to crack for Panarin lines. Right now Lafreniere is fine, albeit not a good defensive combo, so definitely keep that part together.

What an indictment it is that seemingly the one center we've had in the organization since Panarin signed that can't play with Panarin is our 1C making over $8m.

 

[McRanger92]

It seems easy, but they never found what Fast had with Panarin. Even now, it's not as good as that line was. Sometimes when something just works, you let it just work.

I'll give Drury credit, upgrading from Strome to Trocheck was a great move because Trocheck can play the same role on the Panarin line but also actually play on other lines. That's something I'm interested in because I'm beginning to think just about any center can play with Panarin. I mean...

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RW has been a harder nut to crack for Panarin lines. Right now Lafreniere is fine, albeit not a good defensive combo, so definitely keep that part together.

What an indictment it is that seemingly the one center we've had in the organization since Panarin signed that can't play with Panarin is our 1C making over $8m.

Chytil should be between Panarin and Laf when he returns, which is looking like sooner than the playoffs. Trocheck should play with Kreider. If Mika is going to just play keep away at 5v5 and be a special teams merchant, fine, but you need to free Kreider. Play Mika with Kakko and Vesey and be the shutdown line at even strength.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Jesus, for $3M, they could have signed Fast and kept the best line in the league together. That's a thought I just had.

Jesper "The most overrated 30 point scorer in Ranger in history" Fast.

Glad we moved on from him.

 

[Machinehead]

Chytil should be between Panarin and Laf when he returns, which is looking like sooner than the playoffs. Trocheck should play with Kreider. If Mika is going to just play keep away at 5v5 and be a special teams merchant, fine, but you need to free Kreider. Play Mika with Kakko and Vesey and be the shutdown line at even strength.

It makes perfect sense to me but they won't reduce his role because they already see Zibanejad as an all-situations 1C. Mostly because he was when we were bad and coached by David Quinn. He proceeded to be absolutely terrible at defense in that role and shoot 20%.

Mika Zibanejad graduated valedictorian from the Glass-Backlund University of Always Impressing Coaches

1) Just exist in very defensive usage. You don't have to be good at it. (feat. Professor Bonino)

2) Have a shooting bender at the end of the year and have it be the last thing people remember.

 

[McRanger92]

Jesper "The most overrated 30 point scorer in Ranger in history" Fast.

Glad we moved on from him.

We replaced him with the most overrated 40 point scorer in Ranger history, Kaapo Kakko! I kid i kid, but points schmoints.