Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[Gardner McKay]

Not tarasenko again.

He wasn't a fit last year, what makes you think he'd be a fit this year?

I thought Tarasenko was a fit until we traded for Kane. Then the entire team turned to putrid ass.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I thought Tarasenko was a fit until we traded for Kane. Then the entire team turned to putrid ass.

3 of our 4 worst combos with 100+ minutes had Tarasenko involved with the other one being one that had one of the biggest losers in franchise history on it.

Playoffs:

Can't pin this on Kane.

Eberle>Tarasenko. Cost should be similar ish but i'd pay extra if you're going to make the extra.

 

[pld459666]

He isn’t that tenacious anymore.

I think you see a different player in the PO's

Hes a guy tjat knows how to score from close to the net which we need alot more of come playoff time

 

[bernmeister]

I wante to also post this here in this thread but it's important to remember that Mikkola last year was not some high profile rental. Here were his stats prior to his time with the Rangers compared to someone like Edmundson who people lament.


Mikkola:
3 points in 50 games plated
5 takeaways to 20 giveaways
-6.7 CF rel @ 5v5


Edmundson:
4 points in 37 games
6 takeaways to 21 giveaways
+0.9 CF rel @ 5v5

? here is less offensive production and more mobility
checks off boxes for big, clear the crease....

but

is he sufficiently mobile?
I have doubts

 

[NYR Viper]

I get the point you're making here, but just want to say that Mikkola has always been better than Edmundson and will continue to be. Edmundson I don't think would work out here.

I apologize it it came across as a pro Edmundson post, just that the addition of someone who is playing a bit poorly elsewhere may be a good fit here and their numbers may improve. It happened with Mikkola and it happened with Vatrano. So by the deadline they may add someone whose numbers may not look great but we should reserve judgement

 

[NYR Viper]

For my money, I’d prefer Zucker or Eberle over Tarasenko. Although I’m still not sure they’re needed. I’m still game for Okposo who, low key, is effective in the same role the team probably would be playing him in. Also I wouldn’t be opposed to re-signi mg him at a low salaried 1 year deal to help with RW depth and play 3rd or 4th line minutes if he’d take it.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Tarasenko made every line he played with worse.

He was a fit in the room but thats about it. we're already paying too much for good fits in the room.

Who was the only Ranger that scored more than 1 even strength goal in the playoffs?

The Kane trade broke all the lines and broke PP1. The ineffectiveness of the entire roster seems to be associated with both rentals when in reality things were fine before the team traded for Kane expecting anything more than a third line RW and PP2 specialist. The entire roster was shuffled to placate "LeT's PrEtEnD iT's 2o1o AgAiN" and that broke the offense quite a bit when it mattered most.

This team does not have a single elite sniper and Tarasenko would fill that need easily without commanding a first in return.

 

[NYR Viper]

Who was the only Ranger that scored more than 1 even strength goal in the playoffs?

The Kane trade broke all the lines and broke PP1. The ineffectiveness of the entire roster seems to be associated with both rentals when in reality things were fine before the team traded for Kane expecting anything more than a third line RW and PP2 specialist. The entire roster was shuffled to placate "LeT's PrEtEnD iT's 2o1o AgAiN" and that broke the offense quite a bit when it mattered most.

This team does not have a single elite sniper and Tarasenko would fill that need easily without commanding a first in return.

I’d argue that the team doesn’t need a 1-dimensional scorer though. I think someone who plays the game like Trochek, someone who is a puck hound, would be a far more effective addition. They don’t need to be a 50-60 point player but someone who is always around the puck and plays with pace. They also should be someone who drives to the middle of the ice.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I’d argue that the team doesn’t need a 1-dimensional scorer though. I think someone who plays the game like Trochek, someone who is a puck hound, would be a far more effective addition. They don’t need to be a 50-60 point player but someone who is always around the puck and plays with pace. They also should be someone who drives to the middle of the ice.

IMO, that's what we need in a 3C, not what we necessarily need in a wing. That allows us to slot Brodzinski to the 4th line, where I think he'll actually be pretty good. Hence why most of the Tarasenko trade proposals I've thrown out there have also involved a piece like Greig or Pinto. But I'm open to a Tarasenko trade if there's another deal out there to fill that spot from another team, just wary of taking on picks, and I think Ottawa is one of the few teams that might actually see "veteran leadership" and "winning experience" from a guy like Goodrow as a positive due to how many young players they have.

Tarasenko isn't a 1-dimensional scorer...he's a 200 foot player who is very good positionally in his own end and on the backcheck. He's just not going to be the first man in on the forecheck and banging bodies, even though he is pretty good along the wall. IMO he functions best in a forechecking system where he goes down to the halfwall as F2 and provides secondary support on the forecheck, then comes back hard if the puck gets to the neutral zone. I think Laviolette's system actually plays to that as F2 doesn't have as active a role in it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

View attachment 822524

3 of our 4 worst combos with 100+ minutes had Tarasenko involved with the other one being one that had one of the biggest losers in franchise history on it.

Playoffs:

View attachment 822527

Can't pin this on Kane.

Eberle>Tarasenko. Cost should be similar ish but i'd pay extra if you're going to make the extra.

Fair enough. I'd definitely be on board with Eberle.

 

[zlev]

eberle is way better than tarasenko and might actually cost less because his scoring stats arent so great this year

Tarasenko isn't a 1-dimensional scorer...he's a 200 foot player who is very good positionally in his own end and on the backcheck. He's just not going to be the first man in on the forecheck and banging bodies, even though he is pretty good along the wall. IMO he functions best in a forechecking system where he goes down to the halfwall as F2 and provides secondary support on the forecheck, then comes back hard if the puck gets to the neutral zone. I think Laviolette's system actually plays to that as F2 doesn't have as active a role in it.

tarasenko is one of the worst defensive players in the league

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Who was the only Ranger that scored more than 1 even strength goal in the playoffs?

The Kane trade broke all the lines and broke PP1. The ineffectiveness of the entire roster seems to be associated with both rentals when in reality things were fine before the team traded for Kane expecting anything more than a third line RW and PP2 specialist. The entire roster was shuffled to placate "LeT's PrEtEnD iT's 2o1o AgAiN" and that broke the offense quite a bit when it mattered most.

This team does not have a single elite sniper and Tarasenko would fill that need easily without commanding a first in return.

That isn't the barometer that we should be using. Our team scored what, 5 goals 5v5 all series?

He's a one dimensional sniper and certainly not an elite one anymore. Our biggest weaknesses as a team are -

1. Rush defense.
2. Rush defense.
3. Rush defense.
4. Creating off the cycle.

Tarasenko would make us worse at 1-3 (and there really isn't a quick fix here, but we should try to add/subtract to make it less horrible) and doesn't help 4. The only way he can really be impactful is to play with someone who is going to basically do all of the work up the ice and then find him when he's open. We don't really have that guy on the roster.

Square peg in a round hole. I don't love the rental market as it is but there are better options.

We also need to stop blaming Kane's addition to why Tarasenko didn't fit here. He didn't really fit even before Kane showed up. Kreider-Zib-Tarasenko was one of the worst lines I've ever seen and don't really care to see it again.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

How many assets will be left? This same plan again next March? A team can't keep making these moves year after year after year.

Yes, I understand that. My point was they do have assets right now to make things happen in the short term. I'm not sure if they have the cap space though.

 

[SA16]

I’d argue that the team doesn’t need a 1-dimensional scorer though. I think someone who plays the game like Trochek, someone who is a puck hound, would be a far more effective addition. They don’t need to be a 50-60 point player but someone who is always around the puck and plays with pace. They also should be someone who drives to the middle of the ice.

I'd also note that Tarasenko is not the same guy he used to be. Every since his shoulder surgery in 2019 he has been shooting way less. From 14-15 through 18-19 he took at least 18.5 shot attempts per 60 every year. There is a stark difference after that. 13.4 in 24 games in 20-21. 16.0 in 21-22. 12.7 as a Blue in 22-23. 13.3 as a Ranger in 22-23. 12.1 this year. He's pretty much turned into an average volume shooter for the last few years. He still has a good shot but he's not that guy anymore who is at there blasting pucks on net.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think we need Hanifin ( or another top 4 lhd). More than we need a RW

I thought Tarasenko was a fit last season we just didn’t have the cap space to retain him.

He matched all of my expectations, at least

I’m thought he sucked

 

[JCProdigy]

To paraphrase the age old adage: If at first he doesn't succeed, try, try again.

I mean there's also: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

 

[80s Kid]

I don't post much but curious about why it appears Bern wants to add Zegras and Sanderson so much.

For the record, I agree with a fair amount of what Bern preaches (i.e. "No youth for vets") but of all the players to try reaching for in these elaborate trade proposals, why Zegras and Sanderson?

I get we need a C and could certainly upgrade D (I'm okay w/Lindgren as 3rd pair but Trouba is a bigger problem IMO). I just think the odds are pretty low on getting Zegras and maybe even lower on Sanderson.

Also would be really reluctant to trade Laf and really don't want to trade Gabe unless it's an incredible haul because he has home run potential. I like Othman but he makes sense in these types of deals (in theory).

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Lindgren + 1st + prospect for Hanifin?

 

[Avery16]

I'd also note that Tarasenko is not the same guy he used to be. Every since his shoulder surgery in 2019 he has been shooting way less. From 14-15 through 18-19 he took at least 18.5 shot attempts per 60 every year. There is a stark difference after that. 13.4 in 24 games in 20-21. 16.0 in 21-22. 12.7 as a Blue in 22-23. 13.3 as a Ranger in 22-23. 12.1 this year. He's pretty much turned into an average volume shooter for the last few years. He still has a good shot but he's not that guy anymore who is at there blasting pucks on net.

MAYbe this is true, but he also scored 34 goals and hit career highs in assists and points in his first full season AFTER the shoulder surgeries. So let’s not pretend he’s a cripple or anything like that.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I don't post much but curious about why it appears Bern wants to add Zegras and Sanderson so much.

For the record, I agree with a fair amount of what Bern preaches (i.e. "No youth for vets") but of all the players to try reaching for in these elaborate trade proposals, why Zegras and Sanderson?

I get we need a C and could certainly upgrade D (I'm okay w/Lindgren as 3rd pair but Trouba is a bigger problem IMO). I just think the odds are pretty low on getting Zegras and maybe even lower on Sanderson.

Also would be really reluctant to trade Laf and really don't want to trade Gabe unless it's an incredible haul because he has home run potential. I like Othman but he makes sense in these types of deals (in theory).

Bern should be drug tested on a daily basis

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

That isn't the barometer that we should be using. Our team scored what, 5 goals 5v5 all series?

He's a one dimensional sniper and certainly not an elite one anymore. Our biggest weaknesses as a team are -

1. Rush defense.
2. Rush defense.
3. Rush defense.
4. Creating off the cycle.

Tarasenko would make us worse at 1-3 (and there really isn't a quick fix here, but we should try to add/subtract to make it less horrible) and doesn't help 4. The only way he can really be impactful is to play with someone who is going to basically do all of the work up the ice and then find him when he's open. We don't really have that guy on the roster.

Square peg in a round hole. I don't love the rental market as it is but there are better options.

We also need to stop blaming Kane's addition to why Tarasenko didn't fit here. He didn't really fit even before Kane showed up. Kreider-Zib-Tarasenko was one of the worst lines I've ever seen and don't really care to see it again.

Disagree. He absolutely helps with 4. He's one of the best at taking the puck, coming off the wall, and putting good shots on net that if they don't go in, generate rebounds. He's a bull along the wall, and this is why he didn't work with Kreider and Zibanejad...because those two do everything as drive by off the rush, and can't sustain zone time.

And rush defense isn't our problem. Our D pinching and getting caught is our problem. That has to be addressed through a combination of systems and trying to upgrade where we can - specifically, upgrading Lindgren if possible, and maybe not using Trouba 25 minutes a night, not through addressing the forward core. But for what it's worth, Tarasenko is a responsible backchecker who plays a 200 foot game, so he doesn't hurt in this either, and actually it's still an improvement when you consider the baseline was Wheeler.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Disagree. He absolutely helps with 4. He's one of the best at taking the puck, coming off the wall, and putting good shots on net that if they don't go in, generate rebounds. He's a bull along the wall, and this is why he didn't work with Kreider and Zibanejad...because those two do everything as drive by off the rush, and can't sustain zone time.

And rush defense isn't our problem. Our D pinching and getting caught is our problem. That has to be addressed through a combination of systems and trying to upgrade where we can - specifically, upgrading Lindgren if possible, and maybe not using Trouba 25 minutes a night, not through addressing the forward core. But for what it's worth, Tarasenko is a responsible backchecker who plays a 200 foot game, so he doesn't hurt in this either, and actually it's still an improvement when you consider the baseline was Wheeler.

This was true like 5 years ago, not anymore. Even when he had his mini resurgance 2 years ago with the Blues, that was almost entirely driven by Robert Thomas doing all of the work up ice for him. We don't really have that type of player on the roster (closest thing was Chytil who obviously isn't going to play again this year.)

Kreider and Zibanejad drove much better numbers with Kakko and Vesey last year than they did with Tarasenko so that excuse doesn't really apply. Thats very much the same type of game that Kakko plays (or tries to play.)

He didn't work with Trocheck and Panarin either. It was better with those 2, but it wasn't good. I'm not breaking up the current line they play on either, it's the only line that has consistently been good all year.

Anyway, where would he fit? if they're going to add a RW it would be next to Kreider and Zibanejad and as we both agree, that's a trio that just did not work at all.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't post much but curious about why it appears Bern wants to add Zegras and Sanderson so much.

For the record, I agree with a fair amount of what Bern preaches (i.e. "No youth for vets") but of all the players to try reaching for in these elaborate trade proposals, why Zegras and Sanderson?

I get we need a C and could certainly upgrade D (I'm okay w/Lindgren as 3rd pair but Trouba is a bigger problem IMO). I just think the odds are pretty low on getting Zegras and maybe even lower on Sanderson.

Also would be really reluctant to trade Laf and really don't want to trade Gabe unless it's an incredible haul because he has home run potential. I like Othman but he makes sense in these types of deals (in theory).

appreciate the kind mention even if there is disagree or lack of clarity on all pts
hoping to return from real world Fri/w'e
when I have a chance will do a deeper dive then

Bern should be drug tested on a daily basis

Physician, heal thyself.

competition of ideas > capitulating to herd mentality which does not hold up to scrutiny when challenged

 

[mas0764]

Why are we punting off on this season when we are comfortably in first in a bad Metro/Eastern conference, just to make the moves people have suggested we make now, in the summer? That doesnt make sense. You can try to move Goodrow Trouba and Lindgren in the summer, and still add the necessary pieces now. Panarin is playing the best hockey of his career. No future draft pick is contributing for the Rangers before his contract is up. Watch the pregame addresses to the team yesterday. The Stanley Cup is the goal this year, not the Entry Draft

Not engaging in expensive rentals isn't the same as punting. No one is tearing the team down before the playoffs end.

If you can pick up some reinforcements for thirds and fourths have at it, or if you can get a long term young player (like a center) for a first and a prospect, fine, but no expensive rentals.

 

[mas0764]

Just don't trade any of those players. Berard is having a very impressive rookie season in the AHL. He's season is trending towards Cuylle territory from last year and we see how Cuylle has done in the NHL this season. There's no reason to think Berard will be any different.

Yes, he is undersized, but he's 5'9, not 5'3 and he has been playing guys larger than him for the last 4 years in NCAA and AHL.

Sykora is at least another full season in the AHL away.

Also, as a side note, if the option is playing Berard on the 4th line or trading him for a rental, the answer is to play him on the 4th line. He will be inexpensive and effective.

You have to trade a winger at some point probably.

But just don't do it for a rental. Trade Berard or whoever they decide to move for a defensive prospect.