Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[bhamill]

Saying Kakko is an overpayment for Zegras is pure homer goggles, if you ran a poll with any neutral fans 100% of people would say Zegras is far better. Kakko wouldn’t even be a significant piece of a trade that brings back Zegras. Zegras was playing injured. Last season Zegras had more points than Kakko’s 2021-22, 2022-23 & 2023-24 seasons combined.

It's not homer goggles, its maybe regular sunglasses to cut the flash and the shiny new toy syndrome. I put their side by side numbers right in the posts. Zegras is overrated and very one dimensional.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No they wouldn't. They could be looking for a 1st for each of those players. Kakko is not worth a 1st, and retention costs more.

Not that much more.

That was one of the worst proposals I’ve read here from someone who isn’t a moron

 

[will1066]

I think they matter less than people think but they’re not a factor when you’re talking about transition defense.

You’re not able to get into your base structure when you turn the puck over like the Rangers do - your forwards need to stop on a dime and back check (which they also collectively do a very poor job of) and try to even up the numbers going the other way.

This is why the suck defending the rush. That and Trouba is a free entry and he plays a ton of minutes.

I thought their effort and details were pretty good early on. They’ve been bullshit over the last month (even in games where they play well) and Igor can’t stop anything that is remotely difficult. It’s a recipe for disaster.

This is your most consecutive replies to me, thank you for the debate, it means a lot. I agree that they have been crap in all facets of defending lately. People not knowing who to cover, losing guys on switches, letting the opposition run subtle pick plays going into the slot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's not homer goggles, its maybe regular sunglasses to cut the flash and the shiny new toy syndrome. I put their side by side numbers right in the posts. Zegras is overrated and very one dimensional.

His peers seem to think so too.

He was recently voted as the most overrated player in the league. He does flashy shit so ed thinks “amazing” but the on ice impacts are pretty meh.

Literally the 4th or 5th most important forward on that team when they’re healthy.

 

[LOFIN]

It's not homer goggles, its maybe regular sunglasses to cut the flash and the shiny new toy syndrome. I put their side by side numbers right in the posts. Zegras is overrated and very one dimensional.

Look I love Kakko, and don't really care for Zegras and his antics. But here are some notes:

- Zegras is a center, Kakko is a winger
- Zegras has reached 60 points twice, Kakko has reached 40 points once
- Zegras is still under contract for two more years, at not a terrible cap hit of less than 6mil per. Kakko is an RFA, albeit with a cheap QO.

You can like Kakko all you want and hate Zegras all you want, but those are the facts.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

How about neither a rental nor Zegras. Zegras is overrated IMO. One dimensional and 25% of his scoring is on the PP... think he gets that here? Or the amount of time he gets in ANA? Last year in 19 mins a game he had 65 points. 17 on the PP. 41.4% on FO. Perimeter play, no D. Kakko had 40, most at 5v5 with solid D and possession. I think there's a reason Ducks are looking to move on.
Again, I'd take him for the right price of course, I just disagree that that price should be Kakko.
And I doubt it helps us this year, if we got him. Its a move for next season and beyond.

He was 20/21 years old. He is still going to improve. Guy oozes with offense talent. Yea I'll take that in a heartbeat.

And to use your quote, "I think there's a reason Ducks are looking to move on", i guess the same could be said for Kakko.

 

[LOFIN]

That was one of the worst proposals I’ve read here from someone who isn’t a moron

It wasn't a proposal, I would never do such a trade. I was more talking about what it could cost for getting those two players in a trade that included Kakko. Because Kakko and a 1st isn't it. There are teams desperate for centers, and Henrique is on the same train as Lindholm and Monahan. Some team will grab him most likely.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It wasn't a proposal, I would never do such a trade. I was more talking about what it could cost for getting those two players in a trade that included Kakko. Because Kakko and a 1st isn't it.

The delta isn’t Othmann or Perreault.

I think Kakko and a 1st is actually pretty close.

 

[bhamill]

His peers seem to think so too.

He was recently voted as the most overrated player in the league. He does flashy shit so ed thinks “amazing” but the on ice impacts are pretty meh.

Literally the 4th or 5th most important forward on that team when they’re healthy.

He would literally be a 3C here... with potential for more.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's not homer goggles, its maybe regular sunglasses to cut the flash and the shiny new toy syndrome. I put their side by side numbers right in the posts. Zegras is overrated and very one dimensional.

 

[McRanger92]

I didnt realize Frank Vatrano had so many family members posting here. Its the only thing that makes sense as to why people want him back

 

[EdJovanovski]

It's not homer goggles, its maybe regular sunglasses to cut the flash and the shiny new toy syndrome. I put their side by side numbers right in the posts. Zegras is overrated and very one dimensional.

Kakko’s one dimensional too, where’s his offense?

 

[McRanger92]

Kakko’s one dimensional too, where’s his offense?

I have no interest in Zegras but the Kakko hive needs to admit defeat. It's over.

 

[surlysailor]

NHL Gms always have a hardon for former high draft picks.

Let’s check in on what nail yakapov & puljujarvi , kravstov were traded for. Surprisingly Andersson got the biggest return out of all of them.

 

[bhamill]

Look I love Kakko, and don't really care for Zegras and his antics. But here are some notes:

- Zegras is a center, Kakko is a winger
- Zegras has reached 60 points twice, Kakko has reached 40 points once
- Zegras is still under contract for two more years, at not a terrible cap hit of less than 6mil per. Kakko is an RFA, albeit with a cheap QO.

You can like Kakko all you want and hate Zegras all you want, but those are the facts.

The thing is I DON'T hate Zegras. He's just not worth Kakko. I put tons of numbers in the posts already, but the bottom line is his O numbers are not head and shoulders above Kakko looking at the TOI and PP scoring (which Zegras isn't getting here). Yeah he's a center that averages around 40% in the dot, plays only on the perimeter and brings zero D. Meanwhile Kakko brings excellent D is NOT a perimeter player (though I agree he needs to drive to the net more) and is a possession beast. It's just reality, not hatred. I've said numerous times I like the kid and would love to see him come here... just not at the expense of Kakko.
This seems like a replay of last year's cries to trade Laf for Zegras which I also disagreed with.

 

[DanielBrassard]

He would literally be a 3C here... with potential for more.

He probably gets moved to RW and plays with Kreidwr and Zibanejad. Hes played wing before so it wouldn’t be much of a transition.

 

[will1066]

I didnt realize Frank Vatrano had so many family members posting here. Its the only thing that makes sense as to why people want him back

I'm his cousin-in-law.

 

[bhamill]

He was 20/21 years old. He is still going to improve. Guy oozes with offense talent. Yea I'll take that in a heartbeat.

And to use your quote, "I think there's a reason Ducks are looking to move on", i guess the same could be said for Kakko.

well, except the NYR are not shopping Kakko...

 

[McRanger92]

Let’s check in on what nail yakapov & puljujarvi , kravstov were traded for. Surprisingly Andersson got the biggest return out of all of them.

Elias Lindholm, 5th overall pick in 2013. Its all making sense now.

I'm his cousin-in-law.

Save it for the broadcast, Ms. Kaplan

 

[DanielBrassard]

The thing is I DON'T hate Zegras. He's just not worth Kakko. I put tons of numbers in the posts already, but the bottom line is his O numbers are not head and shoulders above Kakko looking at the TOI and PP scoring (which Zegras isn't getting here). Yeah he's a center that averages around 40% in the dot, plays only on the perimeter and brings zero D. Meanwhile Kakko brings excellent D is NOT a perimeter player (though I agree he needs to drive to the net more) and is a possession beast. It's just reality, not hatred. I've said numerous times I like the kid and would love to see him come here... just not at the expense of Kakko.
This seems like a replay of last year's cries to trade Laf for Zegras which I also disagreed with.

Kakko is the embodiment of a perimeter player, just insane to say otherwise. Zegras offensive potential is head and shoulders above Kakko. The Ducks would laugh if the Rangers ever offered a trade straight up.

 

[bhamill]

Kakko’s one dimensional too, where’s his offense?

Good point. He has 6 points in 28 games, that's not much of a dimension... but Zegras has 7 in 20... so...
I suppose I should say Zegras is ZERO dimensional at the moment. And IMO, Defense and possession are actually TWO dimensions anyway...

Kakko is the embodiment of a perimeter player, just insane to say otherwise. Zegras offensive potential is head and shoulders above Kakko. The Ducks would laugh if the Rangers ever offered a trade straight up.

Kakko battles for pucks down low. That's perimeter now?
But GOOD if they'd laugh at that offer. I don't want to make that trade.
Again, last year it was Laf+ people wanted to ship off for Zegras...

 

[bhamill]

He probably gets moved to RW and plays with Kreidwr and Zibanejad. Hes played wing before so it wouldn’t be much of a transition.

That would probably BE the right move for him. And solves his 40% on faceoffs issue. This team still not breaking up PP1 for him though so...

 

[DanielBrassard]

Good point. He has 6 points in 28 games, that's not much of a dimension... but Zegras has 7 in 20... so...
I suppose I should say Zegras is ZERO dimensional at the moment. And IMO, Defense and possession are actually TWO dimensions anyway...


Kakko battles for pucks down low. That's perimeter now?
But GOOD if they'd laugh at that offer. I don't want to make that trade.
Again, last year it was Laf+ people wanted to ship off for Zegras...

Yes, perimeter meaning he doesnt get pucks to dangerous areas with the puck on his stick or by passing the puck. He’s consistently below average at both of those things. But he does better at keeping puck possession on the walls. How is that not perimeter?

Why are you looking at their point totals from this season? Zegras has been injured for a lot of the season and so has Kakko, but the previous 3 years Zegras has been over 2p/60 at 5v5, while Kakko has never come close.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It wouldn’t be Kakko for Zegras straight up so any debate there is really moot.

Zegras isn’t worth the price of acquisition. For all the flash and hype and EA sports covers, he isn’t that good. Dude is the American Mike Ribero minus the off ice shenanigans. I think people (specifically
Players) getting bent out of shape when he does some globetrotter shit need to calm down (if you don’t like it, stop him) but that kind of stuff doesn’t win games.

I’m not paying a premium for that and there’s a reason that he’s going to be moved soon from a team that doesn’t know what they are yet. He would get absolute fried if he played here by pretty much everyone (tuffness crowd, analytics crowd, the crowd that just wants to be angry about something.)

He’s not a winning player which explains why Jovo wants him.

 

[McRanger92]

It wouldn’t be Kakko for Zegras straight up so any debate there is really moot.

Zegras isn’t worth the price of acquisition. For all the flash and hype and EA sports covers, he isn’t that good. Dude is the American Mike Ribero minus the off ice shenanigans. I think people (specifically
Players) getting bent out of shape when he does some globetrotter shit need to calm down (if you don’t like it, stop him) but that kind of stuff doesn’t win games.

I’m not paying a premium for that and there’s a reason that he’s going to be moved soon from a team that doesn’t know what they are yet. He would get absolute fried if he played here by pretty much everyone (tuffness crowd, analytics crowd, the crowd that just wants to be angry about something.)

He’s not a winning player which explains why Jovo wants him.

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