Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part III: Day by Day

[silverfish]

I guess with that many defenseman, at what point do they package some of them up and make a deal?

Need to move Holden.

Well. You don't need to, but they should.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't disagree, but I think you can understand why I'm painting this in terms of the Rangers, and using the Rangers coach as my basis of argument, and not generalizing towards the greater NHL.

I only thought you made it about AD and AV because they are Rangers.

My point regarding AV is more about a semi board wide notion that he is against young guys than your specific post. Its kind of like when people say we have to get younger implying that we are a old team when we are not an old team outside of Lundy.

As Lev pointed out his playing Girardi and Staal may have led to that notion. That I can understand.

 

[eco's bones]

We have endless quotes about AV wanting players he can trust defensively. It's the reason Buchnevich was scratched constantly last season after returning from injury. Or, it was the reason that was at least given to the public.



Sure, maybe outside the organization was too far. I have my share of doubts.

Nothing to do now but wait and see and hope to be proven wrong.

Buch didn't just have an injury--he had conditioning core strength issues that were exacerbated by the injury. In last year's development camp he was just about the scrawniest player we had. Issues such as that don't magically go away when the player is healthy again. The way I saw it was the coaching staff decided to be careful with him after they finally deemed he was ready to play again. It is the one thing he has to work on if he's going to become a real star--the skills and the head for the game are already there.

 

[TheTakedown]

Gelinas couldn't even hold a spot on the Avalanche last year--the worst team in the league. He spent half the season in San Antonio where he managed to be a -22 in only 27 games. Pro rate that out into a full season and he'd been over a -60. He's a crappy defender. He's got a big shot but his offensive production is very underwhelming. 27 games for the Avalanche last year--one assist--that's all. He's not a good skater. He's not as good as Kampfer and not even as good as Staal. I know we wouldn't have to pay much to get him but why get him at all?

I would not use the Avalanche as a proper barometer for measure Eric Gelinas' Talent level. He looked semi-decent on the devils--obviously in over his head, but still decent

 

[TheTakedown]

AV specifically mentioning ADA in a recent presser makes me believe the 3rd pair RD spot is his to lose.

Everything else I've heard about Staal also suggests to me that the 3LD spot is in close contention between Staal and Bereglazov

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Everything else I've heard about Staal also suggests to me that the 3LD spot is in close contention between Staal and Bereglazov

What exactly have you heard that gives you this impression?

 

[TheTakedown]

Wouldn't it behoove the Rangers, if they can't find the right fit at center, to wait and see what happens with Tavares? I know he will get PAID but he would be a 'free' asset vs off-loading talent to try and bring in someone else.

Gorton should be on the lookout to add another couple of 1st's in 2018. Rick Nash being the prime trade prospect I think could return something pretty good at the deadline if Gorton holds some money.

Would anyone here trade McDonagh for Seguin? Both have a couple of years left on their contracts. Maybe the Rangers re-allocate their funds and feel comfortable enough next off-season with Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith and some of the younger guys who have a year or so of experience like Pionk, DeAngelo and Bereglazov.

The Rangers have an interesting decision to make with Zuccarello and McDonagh. I'm sure those two guys look at Stepan and Brassard and wonder if they are next. Can Gorton speak with them to see if they would be interested in signing a team friendly next contract? if not, they will be the next major pieces to move I'm sure. McDonagh will be 30 when he hits UFA, Zuccarello will be 31. Not old by any means, but would they sign for 4 years or are they looking for 6?

I love this entire post.

Imagine trading Hayes, McDonagh, Nash, and moving on from/buying out Staal, and then replacing them with Seguin and Tavares?

Sorry back to reality. Going after Tavares is VERY realistic, IMO... Especially if the team decides to use a combo of Miller, Hayes, a Rental, and Andersson as 2/3C players for this season

You could let Nash expire this offseason, move/buyout Staal, and probably Hayes, then sign Tavares.

Kreider-Tavares-Zuccarello
Miller-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Vesey-Andersson-XX
XX-XX-Fast

That is an insane top 6. Again, sort of a pipe dream, as you're looking at moving out a ton of cap hits.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Richards was not the 1C in 2014. Considering he was bought out after the 2014 season, not sure what his 2015 season in Chicago has to do with it.

He was in crash and burn mode in 2013, the lockout shortened season. He was awful, clearly didn't realize he needed to train harder as he got older.

He rebounded in 2014 and was better, but still not the 1C, he got sheltered minutes at 5v5 and all the PP time. Stepan was the 1C on that team.

Sorry, lost a year there. I'm 30-frickin'-1... that means you'd BETTER respect me... ok?

 

[TheTakedown]

What exactly have you heard that gives you this impression?

Staal got the 2nd lowest ATOI this past season. He blew off the media during break up day because of the news that he was getting a demotion. AV has made it clear that Skjei is getting a promotion. AV has also made it clear that there are "several young players that are going to get some good looks", and Bereglazov was the most recent signing at that point.

Top 4 is, without a doubt:
McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith

The 3rd pairing is a combo of these players:
Staal, Bereglazov, DeAngelo, Pionk, Graves, Holden, Kampfer

Realistically, if you want to pull the prospects and fringe players out of that, you have:
Staal, Bereglazov, DeAngelo, Holden

Staal is, without a doubt, the weakest link here. I don't care if DeAngelo is a prospect, the kid has a talent level that is worlds above Staal's toolset. Bereglazov just went to a cup final in the worlds 2nd best league. Holden carried Staal last year with his 34 points while Staal put up a measly 10 points. Staal had the 2nd lowest CF% last season.

Again, Staal is the weakest link here. I know AV will give him a long leash, but the guys on this team are not fringe players like Clendening (supposedly) was--these are very talented players.

Speaking of Clendo, I am curious to see how he looks in Arizona this year.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Staal got the 2nd lowest ATOI this past season. He blew off the media during break up day because of the news that he was getting a demotion. AV has made it clear that Skjei is getting a promotion. AV has also made it clear that there are "several young players that are going to get some good looks", and Bereglazov was the most recent signing at that point.

Top 4 is, without a doubt:
McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith

The 3rd pairing is a combo of these players:
Staal, Bereglazov, DeAngelo, Pionk, Graves, Holden, Kampfer

Realistically, if you want to pull the prospects and fringe players out of that, you have:
Staal, Bereglazov, DeAngelo, Holden

Staal is, without a doubt, the weakest link here. I don't care if DeAngelo is a prospect, the kid has a talent level that is worlds above Staal's toolset. Bereglazov just went to a cup final in the worlds 2nd best league. Holden carried Staal last year with his 34 points while Staal put up a measly 10 points. Staal had the 2nd lowest CF% last season.

Again, Staal is the weakest link here. I know AV will give him a long leash, but the guys on this team are not fringe players like Clendening (supposedly) was--these are very talented players.

Speaking of Clendo, I am curious to see how he looks in Arizona this year.

DeAngelo is fringe, Bereglazov not even yet.

 

[brians1128]

I love this entire post.

Imagine trading Hayes, McDonagh, Nash, and moving on from/buying out Staal, and then replacing them with Seguin and Tavares?

Sorry back to reality. Going after Tavares is VERY realistic, IMO... Especially if the team decides to use a combo of Miller, Hayes, a Rental, and Andersson as 2/3C players for this season

You could let Nash expire this offseason, move/buyout Staal, and probably Hayes, then sign Tavares.

Kreider-Tavares-Zuccarello
Miller-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Vesey-Andersson-XX
XX-XX-Fast

That is an insane top 6. Again, sort of a pipe dream, as you're looking at moving out a ton of cap hits.

insane and your still missing Seguin, i cant see it working cap wise, vesey, miller, and skeji will be getting new contracts, and than seguin the year after

 

[McD37]

I do not understand that there are still people who want to blow it up. Rangers are probably better than last year and they also managed to improve their prospect pool. To be honest, this squad is missing one C to be almost perfect. I have no reason to post here anymore because I think they could not realistically build better roster this summer .

 

[TheTakedown]

insane and your still missing Seguin, i cant see it working cap wise, vesey, miller, and skeji will be getting new contracts, and than seguin the year after

Damn woops, yeah he'd go to the 2C position and Zib would move to wing.

 

[McD37]

Is not deAngelo quite solid defensively especially for a guy who is supposed to be big offensive weapon?

 

[RangerBoy]

No. MacKinnon is not that good. He is good. Don't get me wrong. But we lose a tremendous amount of talent and depth if we do this and its for a guy that has been a 55 point player in his career. Hoping he comes here and starts putting up 70+ a year is not the right reason to make the deal.



You think Skjei gets a similar deal to Parayko?

Slavin got $5.3M for 7. Parayko got $5.5M for 5. Skjei will get something similar if it's a long term contract covering group III years. He will have 3 more arbitration years left and the rest is group III.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Bridging Skjei would be so stupid.

Can't wait til he's "overpaid" like Stepan and traded for scraps when the issue is overly conservative contract grouping.

 

[silverfish]

Slavin got $5.3M for 7. Parayko got $5.5M for 5. Skjei will get something similar if it's a long term contract covering group III years. He will have 3 more arbitration years left and the rest is group III.

See what he does this year first, no? Secondary assists are far-less repeatable than primary ones. Will he get similar PP time this season?

 

[NickyFotiu]

There are multiple Dmen that looked really good as rookies to then drop off in their second year. I'm very optimistic about Brady but we have to wait and see how he plays before making any decisions.

 

[Beacon]

I wouldn't even go for it as an AHL depth signing unless they've ran out of option. Gelinas is absolutely terrible. You don't get cut from the Devils and the Avalanche for nothing. Poor mobility and terrible in the defensive zone. The "big shot" factor is overrated. Young players that are unknowns come into the league with a big shot for half a season before teams start taking away their time and space for a wind up and then the big shot is gone and all there is left is 100 ways of getting exposed and embarrassed in the neutral and defensive zone. Rather a Burns with mobility and being able to get pucks to the net quickly by finding seams. Gelinas would get eaten alive the same way McIlrath did. I don't see how AV would treat it any differently.

The Debbies and the Avs are still better than AHL teams. Anyone who is even close to taking shift in the NHL is great in the AHL. McIlrath was great in Hartford. Redden was a superstar there.

 

[BBKers]

Slavin got $5.3M for 7. Parayko got $5.5M for 5. Skjei will get something similar if it's a long term contract covering group III years. He will have 3 more arbitration years left and the rest is group III.

Skjei for 5,4 per for 6 years would be a great deal

There are multiple Dmen that looked really good as rookies to then drop off in their second year. I'm very optimistic about Brady but we have to wait and see how he plays before making any decisions.

Totally agree with this as well.

 

[Fugazy]

Slavin got $5.3M for 7. Parayko got $5.5M for 5. Skjei will get something similar if it's a long term contract covering group III years. He will have 3 more arbitration years left and the rest is group III.

A similar deal like that for Skjei would likely be great value for the Rangers.

 

[eco's bones]

I would not use the Avalanche as a proper barometer for measure Eric Gelinas' Talent level. He looked semi-decent on the devils--obviously in over his head, but still decent

Semi-decent?--is that akin to semi-****? Gelinas is horrible defensively. Again a -22 in 27 in the AHL last year pro rates to about a -60 for the entire season. The guy obviously does not take much pride in his defense. Even more--on the offensive he is way overrated. He has his shot--yeah but that's it. He's a bad skater by NHL standards. He blows pure and simple--he'd be a good addition for a European team maybe--that is if you count out the KHL, Liiga, SHL, NLA and maybe even the top Czech league and the DEL. Not an NHL player in any way, shape or form. Any NHL team that signs him is wasting a contract.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Semi-decent?--is that akin to semi-****? Gelinas is horrible defensively. Again a -22 in 27 in the AHL last year pro rates to about a -60 for the entire season. The guy obviously does not take much pride in his defense. Even more--on the offensive he is way overrated. He has his shot--yeah but that's it. He's a bad skater by NHL standards. He blows pure and simple--he'd be a good addition for a European team maybe--that is if you count out the KHL, Liiga, SHL, NLA and maybe even the top Czech league and the DEL. Not an NHL player in any way, shape or form. Any NHL team that signs him is wasting a contract.

+1 on this. Gelinas blows. This generation's Marc-Andre Bergeron.

 

[Levitate]

Is not deAngelo quite solid defensively especially for a guy who is supposed to be big offensive weapon?

depends on who you ask. Some Coyotes fans thought he was poor, others thought he was fine considering his other contributions. I wouldn't bank on him being "solid", but more of "work in progress" where some nights he'll be fine and some nights he'll have issues (heck maybe even shift by shift)

 

[eco's bones]

lol @ using +/-
major lolz @ pro-rating +/-

+/- is trash.

Pro rating out to be a -60 in the AHL is trash. Gelinas stinks. He can't play defense and he skates like ****.