Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part III: Day by Day

[Gardner McKay]

would you do Kevin Hayes, Anthony DeAngelo and JT Miller for Nathan Mackinnon?

No. MacKinnon is not that good. He is good. Don't get me wrong. But we lose a tremendous amount of talent and depth if we do this and its for a guy that has been a 55 point player in his career. Hoping he comes here and starts putting up 70+ a year is not the right reason to make the deal.

Skjei will go from $925,000 to $5M plus. Thankfully it looks like the loonie has finally started to go up. 80 cents today.

You think Skjei gets a similar deal to Parayko?

 

[Ola]

Tony D will play. He was the prime target in the Stepan trade according to Gorton, it was he we targeted.

AV is a suck up, he played Etem despite him being a disaster on our 4th line. No way he put Tony D outside the line-up.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If Tony watches what he says he should be okay. AV is going to love his skating. AV liked Raffy Diaz so he will probably like Tony's skills as well. I'm really impressed by his footwork. I'm hoping his shot improves a bit as he gets physically stronger.

 

[silverfish]

When you're estimating that a 21 year old can bust out of our organization in 5 months, that is the way it comes off.

Judging by AV's history, how he treats young players, which young players he chooses to dress, and the depth ahead of DeAngelo, whether better or not in yours or my opinion, I don't think it's such a stretch to say he may not last this season.

AV likes young kids who can play defense, who he can trust on the ice. ADA hasn't shown that at the NHL level yet. Meanwhile, we have this kid from Russia who has been playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world for the past 2.5 years, and holding his own, competing for that 3RD spot with ADA.

Thus, using what I know about AV, what I know about DeAngelo's game, and what I know about Bereglazov's game, I don't think it's absurd to believe that DeAngelo may be the odd man out here. What service are we doing DeAngelo as the team's 7th or 8th d-man? None. He needs to play. Maybe that's in Hartford.

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the rosy narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like 'Dan Boyle in his prime'. I like to think my opinions are more rooted in reality, but, I suppose that's where everyone believes their opinions lie.

 

[Irishguy42]

I can see ADA/Bear Gloves rotating on the 3RD with Staal.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I would trade Zuccarello for a center. It's not an easy fit. Calgary and Edmonton need a RW. Big time need. Sam Bennett and RNH. Is Calgary trading Bennett who is just 21?Do the Rangers want another $6M center in RNH? 4 more years. The Rangers have so many players to re-sign in the next two summers.

Zucc for Bennett is interesting, but I'd want more. Zucc is really ****ing good. Don't want RNH at all

 

[NickyFotiu]

Judging by AV's history, how he treats young players, which young players he chooses to dress, and the depth ahead of DeAngelo, whether better or not in yours or my opinion, I don't think it's such a stretch to say he may not last this season.

AV likes young kids who can play defense, who he can trust on the ice. ADA hasn't shown that at the NHL level yet. Meanwhile, we have this kid from Russia who has been playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world for the past 2.5 years, and holding his own, competing for that 3RD spot with ADA.

Thus, using what I know about AV, what I know about DeAngelo's game, and what I know about Bereglazov's game, I don't think it's absurd to believe that DeAngelo may be the odd man out here. What service are we doing DeAngelo as the team's 7th or 8th d-man? None. He needs to play. Maybe that's in Hartford.

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the rosy narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like 'Dan Boyle in his prime'. I like to think my opinions are more rooted in reality, but, I suppose that's where everyone believes their opinions lie.

I think your opinions are rooted in some reality. You are right that AD has not proven himself as a NHL player yet. I'm personally waiting to see how he does defensively myself. I'm so impressed by his skating footwork but a player can be a great skater but not even a good defensemen. I do not agree with the notion that AV is against younger players. We have had more young guys play under him than in most Rangers coaches I have witnessed. Now with those things aside there were a handful of people that freaked out about AD over things he said not his play on the ice so I can see why Gardner McKay feels there may be other factors behind some AD posts.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Judging by AV's history, how he treats young players, which young players he chooses to dress, and the depth ahead of DeAngelo, whether better or not in yours or my opinion, I don't think it's such a stretch to say he may not last this season.

AV likes young kids who can play defense, who he can trust on the ice. ADA hasn't shown that at the NHL level yet. Meanwhile, we have this kid from Russia who has been playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world for the past 2.5 years, and holding his own, competing for that 3RD spot with ADA.

Thus, using what I know about AV, what I know about DeAngelo's game, and what I know about Bereglazov's game, I don't think it's absurd to believe that DeAngelo may be the odd man out here. What service are we doing DeAngelo as the team's 7th or 8th d-man? None. He needs to play. Maybe that's in Hartford.

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the rosy narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like 'Dan Boyle in his prime'. I like to think my opinions are more rooted in reality, but, I suppose that's where everyone believes their opinions lie.

I don't buy into the narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like Dan Boyle in his prime. But with all due respect, I think that narrative is absurd as your original statement of the kid being out of the organization by the end of the calendar year. If you are right about AV and how he will handle ADA (and I believe you are) I don't think it is far fetched to see him spend time in the AHL.

 

[silverfish]

I think your opinions are rooted in some reality. You are right that AD has not proven himself as a NHL player yet. I'm personally waiting to see how he does defensively myself. I'm so impressed by his skating footwork but a player can be a great skater but not even a good defensemen. I do not agree with the notion that AV is against younger players. We have had more young guys play under him than in most Rangers coaches I have witnessed. Now with those things aside there were a handful of people that freaked out about AD over things he said not his play on the ice so I can see why Gardner McKay feels there may be other factors behind some AD posts.

We have endless quotes about AV wanting players he can trust defensively. It's the reason Buchnevich was scratched constantly last season after returning from injury. Or, it was the reason that was at least given to the public.

I don't buy into the narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like Dan Boyle in his prime. But with all due respect, I think that narrative is absurd as your original statement of the kid being out of the organization by the end of the calendar year. If you are right about AV and how he will handle ADA (and I believe you are) I don't think it is far fetched to see him spend time in the AHL.

Sure, maybe outside the organization was too far. I have my share of doubts.

Nothing to do now but wait and see and hope to be proven wrong.

 

[Ola]

Skjei will go from $925,000 to $5M plus. Thankfully it looks like the loonie has finally started to go up. 80 cents today.

What was the avg last season?

Anything can happen, but if its up 10% its 3% HRR growth right there.

The Fed started raising the interest rate and cutting QEs a long time ago which strengthen the USD. Then the market liked Trumps proposed infrastructure investments, which further strengthen the USD. The USD has been expensive a really long time. Now the rest of the world is starting to come closer to raising the interest rates and easing QEs which will strengthen other currencies and lower the USD. Trump has not yet been able to implement those investments. The USD is down from 9.45 to 8.45 against the SEK the last year, and Riksbanken has yet to raise the interest rate or ease the QEs, they plan to start doing that early 2019, but even that time frame have been enough to start to to make the USD fall. Some speculate that the USD will go down towards 6-7 SEK/USD in a couple of years. Its closer to what have been normal the last 30 years.

However, the oil price and commodities prices aren't recovering anytime soon. Traditionally, those drives they Canadian market. Can they turn around the Economy? To do so a lower loonie would help.

I wouldn't bet on a huge help from the loonie for the Cap. Inflation is much lower now than it was as long as we can remember. The internet shops are slashing prices so even if so much keeps getting more and more expensive, the avg. price for things isn't going up. The US will "import" some inflation if the USD goes down, but it will still not be much. 3-5% annual cap growth the coming decade?

I think the NHL have had a few good years. Many organizations have done well, big organizations. Think Bettman slashed the OGs because he wants a few very good seasons more, he is dressing the bride so to speak, especially before any potential new lock-out problems. Its not about 10-20 years down the road, he wants the coming years to peak. The NBC got the NHL for free and will of course cash in on it by marketing it well enough. The TV deal in the US is up in 2021. They will start to negotiate that after the summer in 2020. 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20. By then regular TV will have died even more and sports will be even more important for the few linear channels left and cable companies. Can the NHL get paid in the US too?

Bettman will retire after the next TV deal (if his health lets him work that long). Its his goal.

How do we plan ahead? Modest cap growth until 21/22. Then things might or might not pick up speed. Don't expect the cap to grow as much as it did the first 12 years after the lockout in the mean time.

 

[Gardner McKay]

We have endless quotes about AV wanting players he can trust defensively. It's the reason Buchnevich was scratched constantly last season after returning from injury. Or, it was the reason that was at least given to the public.



Sure, maybe outside the organization was too far. I have my share of doubts.

Nothing to do now but wait and see and hope to be proven wrong.

Yeah I think it is absolutely reasonable that he spends time in the AHL. They want this kid to succeed. They wouldn't have asked for him in a deal that traded away such a significant piece of our team if they didn't believe he could be a good player.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We have endless quotes about AV wanting players he can trust defensively. It's the reason Buchnevich was scratched constantly last season after returning from injury. Or, it was the reason that was at least given to the public.

Every coach I have ever known has wanted players he can trust defensively but that doesn't mean he will not play younger players. Look at the Rangers today vs when AV took over. He has played guys that were young (CK, JT, Brady, Vesey, Buch, Fast, Oscar) as well as played Zooks in a significant role when the previous coach did not.

I did not feel Buch was a healthy scratch constantly. Buch was a 21 year old kid playing in NA for the first time. He played in 46 games total last season. That is not bad for a young rookie. He also missed a lot of games due to injury.

 

[silverfish]

Every coach I have ever known has wanted players he can trust defensively but that doesn't mean he will not play younger players. Look at the Rangers today vs when AV took over. He has played guys that were young (CK, JT, Brady, Vesey, Buch, Fast, Oscar) as well as played Zooks in a significant role when the previous coach did not.

I did not feel Buch was a healthy scratch constantly. Buch was a 21 year old kid playing in NA for the first time. He played in 46 games total last season. That is not bad for a young rookie. He also missed some games due to injury.

Kreider is good defensively.
JT was bounced around constantly, and still played on the 4th line last season at times including in the playoffs.
Vesey is the outlier. I don't know what AV saw in this kid last year to continue playing him the way he did, but, it was good to see AV finally let a rookie work through the growing pains. Just thought he picked the wrong one last season is all (should've picked both).
Buch was benched often.
Fast made the team because of his defense, everything else from him is gravy.
Lindberg is the same as Fast.
Zucc was already 26 years-old when AV took over for Torts.

 

[NYR Viper]

Wouldn't it behoove the Rangers, if they can't find the right fit at center, to wait and see what happens with Tavares? I know he will get PAID but he would be a 'free' asset vs off-loading talent to try and bring in someone else.

Gorton should be on the lookout to add another couple of 1st's in 2018. Rick Nash being the prime trade prospect I think could return something pretty good at the deadline if Gorton holds some money.

Would anyone here trade McDonagh for Seguin? Both have a couple of years left on their contracts. Maybe the Rangers re-allocate their funds and feel comfortable enough next off-season with Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith and some of the younger guys who have a year or so of experience like Pionk, DeAngelo and Bereglazov.

The Rangers have an interesting decision to make with Zuccarello and McDonagh. I'm sure those two guys look at Stepan and Brassard and wonder if they are next. Can Gorton speak with them to see if they would be interested in signing a team friendly next contract? if not, they will be the next major pieces to move I'm sure. McDonagh will be 30 when he hits UFA, Zuccarello will be 31. Not old by any means, but would they sign for 4 years or are they looking for 6?

 

[RGY]

Wasnt there an article way back that said Tavares does not want to play for the Rangers

 

[Levitate]

Judging by AV's history, how he treats young players, which young players he chooses to dress, and the depth ahead of DeAngelo, whether better or not in yours or my opinion, I don't think it's such a stretch to say he may not last this season.

AV likes young kids who can play defense, who he can trust on the ice. ADA hasn't shown that at the NHL level yet. Meanwhile, we have this kid from Russia who has been playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world for the past 2.5 years, and holding his own, competing for that 3RD spot with ADA.

Thus, using what I know about AV, what I know about DeAngelo's game, and what I know about Bereglazov's game, I don't think it's absurd to believe that DeAngelo may be the odd man out here. What service are we doing DeAngelo as the team's 7th or 8th d-man? None. He needs to play. Maybe that's in Hartford.

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the rosy narrative that DeAngelo is a lock to look like 'Dan Boyle in his prime'. I like to think my opinions are more rooted in reality, but, I suppose that's where everyone believes their opinions lie.

DeAngelo has played in the NHL. Bereglazov has not.

Training camp may tell but pretending that playing in the KHL somehow gives Bereglazov a step up on the competition is nuts. I think it's entirely possible AV is even harder on Bereglazov because he doesn't skate as well and will have to be much sharper on defense because that's his main focus.

Depending on what the Rangers do with their roster the rest of the offseason (if Holden is traded or something) I could see DeAngelo and Bereglazov rotating in that 3rd pair spot to some degree but I think DeAngelo is going to be given every opportunity to start in that position. I'm not saying he wont' go to the AHL if they feel like he's not where they want him to be at, but he has NHL level skills that need to be developed and worked on and you ultimately can't do that in the AHL past a certain point.

Ruff is also on board and the guy who is running the defense so it's not necessarily just AV, not to mention the D in general is vastly different than it has been in the past and they've already talked about taking a different approach in regards to how they use the personnel they have and system they'll run. Will that happen? I'm not sure, but AV at least has explicitly said that he's been talking with Ruff about those things.

I think your opinions are rooted in some reality. You are right that AD has not proven himself as a NHL player yet. I'm personally waiting to see how he does defensively myself. I'm so impressed by his skating footwork but a player can be a great skater but not even a good defensemen. I do not agree with the notion that AV is against younger players. We have had more young guys play under him than in most Rangers coaches I have witnessed. Now with those things aside there were a handful of people that freaked out about AD over things he said not his play on the ice so I can see why Gardner McKay feels there may be other factors behind some AD posts.

I think it's really less about how AV treats young players and more that he has obviously given some vets far too much leeway at times. It makes it look like he's anti youth from a certain perspective...young guys get benched or things like that when they make mistakes because "they're going through the process", while vets get the benefit of a doubt because "they've been through this before and will work through it"

That is certainly irritating but AV is also certainly not a coach that never develops his young players.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kreider is good defensively.
JT was bounced around constantly, and still played on the 4th line last season at times including in the playoffs.
Vesey is the outlier. I don't know what AV saw in this kid last year to continue playing him the way he did, but, it was good to see AV finally let a rookie work through the growing pains. Just thought he picked the wrong one last season is all (should've picked both).
Buch was benched often.
Fast made the team because of his defense, everything else from him is gravy.
Lindberg is the same as Fast.
Zucc was already 26 years-old when AV took over for Torts.

The notion that AV will not play younger guys is false. Like most coaches he will play both young and old guys largely based on their actual play on the ice not based only by their age. He has benched players that are old and players that are young. He benched Brad Richards. He benched Dan Boyle. Part of coaching inexperienced guys in the NHL is sitting them when they make defensive mistakes. Its not about hurting them. Its about making them become better players. CK and JT were benched or demoted during games when they were screwing up defensively. So was Hayes. So was Brady. So was Oscar. If AV will not play younger players than CK, JT, and Hayes never would have scored 50 points last season. They would have been traded years ago.

 

[silverfish]

The notion that AV will not play younger guys is false. Like most coaches he will play both young and old guys largely based on their actual play on the ice not based only by their age. He has benched players that are old and players that are young. He benched Brad Richards. He benched Dan Boyle. Part of coaching inexperienced guys in the NHL is sitting them when they make defensive mistakes. Its not about hurting them. Its about making them become better players. CK and JT were benched or demoted during games when they were screwing up defensively. So was Hayes. So was Brady. So was Oscar. If AV will not play younger players than CK, JT, and Hayes never would have scored 50 points last season. They would have been traded years ago.

I'm not saying that AV doesn't play young players, I'm saying AV doesn't play young players that he doesn't trust defensively. Building on that foundation, and looking at ADA's game, he doesn't seem like a player to me, just yet, that AV will 'trust' defensively. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just saying this is what we know about AV.

We also have to take into account the guys that are ahead of ADA on the depth-chart in AV's mind, that includes Staal and Holden, until Holden is traded. Training camp, Bereglazov may make the jump ahead of ADA because he's stronger in his own end. Where does that leave ADA?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think it's really less about how AV treats young players and more that he has obviously given some vets far too much leeway at times. It makes it look like he's anti youth from a certain perspective...young guys get benched or things like that when they make mistakes because "they're going through the process", while vets get the benefit of a doubt because "they've been through this before and will work through it"

That is certainly irritating but AV is also certainly not a coach that never develops his young players.

That makes much more sense and can be true of most coaches at times but that is a lot different than AV not playing younger guys. AV has given a lot of young guys significant chances to be a large part of this team.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It would be wise for the team to try and get Brady long term for less money next summer instead of bridging him

I think they made a mistake not trying to go long term on one of Hayes or Miller last summer

And it's going to be interested to see what they do with McD and Zucc. Both Shattenkirk and Smith attributed McDonagh to being one of the major factors for signing here. So do you give him the massive contract he wants or let him walk?

Zucc in a similar scenario. He took the pay-cut last contract, that won't happen again. I think Zuccarello is the one more likely to be traded of the two (which I hope neither are traded, they are some of my favorites)

I also see a less than zero chance Tavares would sign here

 

[Levitate]

That makes much more sense and can be true of most coaches at times but that is a lot different than AV not playing younger guys. AV has given a lot of young guys significant chances to be a large part of this team.

There's also some sense to the idea that rookies are trying to learn things and sometimes you need to sit them down or force them to take a step back and realize they need to do this or that or be sharper in this area, because they're adjusting to a new league or learning new assignments and details of the game etc. Veteran players do, or should, already know those things and can indeed work through them to some extent.

I'm just not a fan when it's Girardi or Staal working through the entire season of screw ups, and it could be argued that the coach taking a step back and seeing if a players on ice production is worth dealing with their mistakes

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm not saying that AV doesn't play young players, I'm saying AV doesn't play young players that he doesn't trust defensively. Building on that foundation, and looking at ADA's game, he doesn't seem like a player to me, just yet, that AV will 'trust' defensively.

We also have to take into account the guys that are ahead of ADA on the depth-chart in AV's mind, that includes Staal and Holden, until Holden is traded. Training camp, Bereglazov may make the jump ahead of ADA because he's stronger in his own end. Where does that leave ADA?

Coaches in general will not play defensemen they feel will hurt them a lot defensively. ADA will have to prove that he is a NHL level defensemen. Its not about age to me. Brady had to prove that as well. Graves will as well. That would not be any different if AD was still playing for Arizona. The same held true for MDZ when he was traded to Nashville and for John Moore when he was traded to Arizona. If AD is excessively poor defensively then he does not have a NHL future regardless of coach.

 

[NickyFotiu]

There's also some sense to the idea that rookies are trying to learn things and sometimes you need to sit them down or force them to take a step back and realize they need to do this or that or be sharper in this area, because they're adjusting to a new league or learning new assignments and details of the game etc. Veteran players do, or should, already know those things and can indeed work through them to some extent.

I'm just not a fan when it's Girardi or Staal working through the entire season of screw ups, and it could be argued that the coach taking a step back and seeing if a players on ice production is worth dealing with their mistakes is worth it.

Very well said.

 

[silverfish]

Coaches in general will not play defensemen they feel will hurt them a lot defensively. ADA will have to prove that he is a NHL level defensemen. Its not about age to me. Brady had to prove that as well. Graves will as well. That would not be any different if AD was still playing for Arizona. The same held true for MDZ when he was traded to Nashville and for John Moore when he was traded to Arizona. If AD is excessively poor defensively then he does not have a NHL future regardless of coach.

I don't disagree, but I think you can understand why I'm painting this in terms of the Rangers, and using the Rangers coach as my basis of argument, and not generalizing towards the greater NHL.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't disagree, but I think you can understand why I'm painting this in terms of the Rangers, and using the Rangers coach as my basis of argument, and not generalizing towards the greater NHL.

I guess with that many defenseman, at what point do they package some of them up and make a deal?