Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part III: Day by Day

[SA16]

Flyers coaching staff scratches Gostisbehere for defensive issues--Gostisbehere admits he has defensive issues so your conclusion is he should be killing penalties and/or someone else should play the power play instead of him so he can improve his +/-

This is what you got out of my post?

+/- is a bad stat in the first place before you even consider that it's heavily biased towards players who get defensive usage.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Not wishing injury on anyone but I can see the headlines first time Sean Day is banged up... 'Day Day to Day... 2morrow2.'

 

[NickyFotiu]

Not wishing injury on anyone but I can see the headlines first time Sean Day is banged up... 'Day Day to Day... 2morrow2.'

You have a good sense of humor. I like that.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

No, I agree with you, but what I am insinuating is that there is a good chance Staal becomes a rotating option rather than an "every night" option.

Ok, gotchya. I still think if Staal is here he will be an everyday player as long as he's healthy. The best case scenario to me as a result of this, is him getting a diminished role. True 3rd pair 5v5 minutes and 2nd PK unit time.

Can't have him getting top 4 minutes anymore and, frankly, if he does it is a massive indictment on AV. He has 4 defensemen at minimum that are objectively better than Staal. In the past you could see AV's line of reasoning, I guess. But now, there is zero reason for Staal to get anything more than 3rd pairing and PK minutes. If he's not okay with that, he can ask for a trade.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Ok, gotchya. I still think if Staal is here he will be an everyday player as long as he's healthy. The best case scenario to me as a result of this, is him getting a diminished role. True 3rd pair 5v5 minutes and 2nd PK unit time.

Can't have him getting top 4 minutes anymore and, frankly, if he does it is a massive indictment on AV. He has 4 defensemen at minimum that are objectively better than Staal. In the past you could see AV's line of reasoning, I guess. But now, there is zero reason for Staal to get anything more than 3rd pairing and PK minutes. If he's not okay with that, he can ask for a trade.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm not even sure who will be on the roster come October but what if we have 6 or 7 dmen clearly outperform Staal in training camp/the first 2 weeks of the season?

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm not even sure who will be on the roster come October but what if we have 6 or 7 dmen clearly outperform Staal in training camp/the first 2 weeks of the season?

In that case Staal would be a trade candidate. Other teams could be desperate for defensive help as the season goes on. Staal will only have 3 years remaining after this season. If he builds up any sort of value, he'll be a semi-tradable asset.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Realistically, Staal will be a major trade candidate. Other teams could be desperate for defensive help as the season goes on. Staal will only have 3 years remaining after this season. If he builds up any sort of value, he'll be a semi-tradable asset.

I believe almost any player is tradable but Staal will be one of the more difficult trades if he plays like he did last season.

 

[Leetch3]

Realistically, Staal will be a major trade candidate. Other teams could be desperate for defensive help as the season goes on. Staal will only have 3 years remaining after this season. If he builds up any sort of value, he'll be a semi-tradable asset.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

You have a good sense of humor. I like that.

I was trying t be a comedian but slipped into the 5th dimension on the way to a show... GREAT ****.

 

[TheTakedown]

http://www.tsn.ca/maple-leafs-deal-d-phaneuf-to-senators-in-nine-player-trade-1.435458

If Phaneuf can be traded with 5 years remaining on his contract at $7M per, then I think Staal can be traded with 50% retention ($2.75M) with 3.5 years remaining on his contract.

And yes, I understand that its a major undertaking, and there are a lot of hoops in play here. If Staal is, at the end of the day, unhappy with his demotion, he'll accept a move, or the Rangers will simply staple him to the press box and he'll eventually retire.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Everyone assumes Staal won't get it back. Almost 30, always had ups and downs. Skating has for sure dropped off, no fixing that--a guy wears down over the course of a decade at 20+ a night but he's a good 4-5 for 16-17.

 

[TheTakedown]

Everyone assumes Staal won't get it back. Almost 30, always had ups and downs. Skating has for sure dropped off, no fixing that--a guy wears down over the course of a decade at 20+ a night but he's a good 4-5 for 16-17.

Hence why he should have trade value. We'll have to attach another piece to him, but I see no reason why he can't be traded.

I'm just going to consider the fact that Girardi was given a 3 year contract an outlier, because idk what the hell Yzerman was thinking.

 

[Ola]

I do not understand that there are still people who want to blow it up. Rangers are probably better than last year and they also managed to improve their prospect pool. To be honest, this squad is missing one C to be almost perfect. I have no reason to post here anymore because I think they could not realistically build better roster this summer .

That one C though...

Like I agree, say we had Scheifle or Seguin or Stamkos or someone like that -- I easily think we would be up there. But it's not the smallest "but" that we don't have that center.

Also, now that Girardi is gone, let me put it like this, as long as I've followed this team there have -- always -- been a "if we only did NOT have player X we would be great" crew. You can debate if addition by subtraction exists, but I can guarantee that no such addition will be major. Doesn't work like that.

Now we added Shatty so it's a bit different. But if Glass isn't on the team and without Girardi -- the attention will move. It always does.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm not even sure who will be on the roster come October but what if we have 6 or 7 dmen clearly outperform Staal in training camp/the first 2 weeks of the season?

I don't think AV will go out of his way to put any of the other players in a position to drastically outperform Staal. He will force Deangelo/Bereglazov/Pionk all to play with Staal and each will be judged how to perform next to Staal. Staal will be the 3LD. Expecting him to be the 7D or even part of a rotation is wishful thinking IMO.

 

[McD37]

That one C though...

Like I agree, say we had Scheifle or Seguin or Stamkos or someone like that -- I easily think we would be up there. But it's not the smallest "but" that we don't have that center.

Also, now that Girardi is gone, let me put it like this, as long as I've followed this team there have -- always -- been a "if we only did NOT have player X we would be great" crew. You can debate if addition by subtraction exists, but I can guarantee that no such addition will be major. Doesn't work like that.

Now we added Shatty so it's a bit different. But if Glass isn't on the team and without Girardi -- the attention will move. It always does.

I agree. That is definitely a problem for Rangers but what could they do? There was no realistic way how to get that type of player this summer. I think they were on Stamkos in 2016 but he resigned with Tampa. There is another opportunity next summer in case Tavares reaches FA.

I think Marc Staal is destined to be that guy.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't think AV will go out of his way to put any of the other players in a position to drastically outperform Staal. He will force Deangelo/Bereglazov/Pionk all to play with Staal and each will be judged how to perform next to Staal. Staal will be the 3LD. Expecting him to be the 7D or even part of a rotation is wishful thinking IMO.

AV benched Richards. He also demoted MSL. We bought out Girardi. We traded Step. We aren't signing Glass. AV liked all those guys. If he can move on from them why is it impossible to think he would move on from Staal if other guys look better?

 

[Boruto]

AV benched Richards. He also demoted MSL. We bought out Girardi. We traded Step. We aren't signing Glass. AV liked all those guys. If he can move on from them why is it impossible to think he would move on from Staal if other guys look better?

None of this has anything to do with AV. I don't recall what happened in Richards' last year but MSL at the end of his career playing on the third line isn't exactly a demotion in my mind. We were rolling three offensive lines anyway.

It's impossible to think he would move on from Staal because Skjei-Smith were recently benched for Staal-Holden in multiple make or break situations in the playoffs. I used to always ask people if me and another person I was competing with were both drowning and only one could be saved, who would you save? Well, that's basically what happened with Staal-Holden and Skjei-Smith. Brady and Brendan are drifting somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean while Marc and Nick are having a complimentary seafood buffet like Tom Hanks did after he was rescued. Staal and Girardi had 40 combined minutes in the playoffs before they were both facing buyouts.

 

[Boruto]

Everyone assumes Staal won't get it back. Almost 30, always had ups and downs. Skating has for sure dropped off, no fixing that--a guy wears down over the course of a decade at 20+ a night but he's a good 4-5 for 16-17.

Staal is a good 16-17 D man playing 4-5 minutes a night if Vince Pedrie goes down.

 

[NickyFotiu]

None of this has anything to do with AV. I don't recall what happened in Richards' last year but MSL at the end of his career playing on the third line isn't exactly a demotion in my mind. We were rolling three offensive lines anyway.

It's impossible to think he would move on from Staal because Skjei-Smith were recently benched for Staal-Holden in multiple make or break situations in the playoffs. I used to always ask people if me and another person I was competing with were both drowning and only one could be saved, who would you save? Well, that's basically what happened with Staal-Holden and Skjei-Smith. Brady and Brendan are drifting somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean while Marc and Nick are having a complimentary seafood buffet like Tom Hanks did after he was rescued. Staal and Girardi had 40 combined minutes in the playoffs before they were both facing buyouts.

Last year at this time many people said AV would never send Glass to the minors. AV only has a job if he wins. He is not going to put Staal ahead of his own future. Brady and Smith did out play Staal and Holden but Holden was benched. Then Brady/Smith actually played worse in the deciding game. I suspect AV has positive feelings for most our players but he is a professional. If other guys are clearly better than Staal they will play imo.

 

[Ola]

Everyone assumes Staal won't get it back. Almost 30, always had ups and downs. Skating has for sure dropped off, no fixing that--a guy wears down over the course of a decade at 20+ a night but he's a good 4-5 for 16-17.

Is Staal "one hit away" from going on LTIR? The last concussion didn't come from big a hit. Marc has had issues since Eric's hit and the puck to the face. He is like a bit defensive/restricted. Maybe he told Gorts that he will give it one more go and then hang it up.

 

[Vitto79]

Not a great option but w Detroit tight on the cap how about Helm at 50 ?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Last year at this time many people said AV would never send Glass to the minors. AV only has a job if he wins. He is not going to put Staal ahead of his own future. Brady and Smith did out play Staal and Holden but Holden was benched. Then Brady/Smith actually played worse in the deciding game. I suspect AV has positive feelings for most our players but he is a professional. If other guys are clearly better than Staal they will play imo.

Uhh, who cares if Glass spent time in the minors, he ended up on the team in the playoffs, even being on the ice up a goal in game 5 of the second round, the goal being scored against was the turning point in that series - we win game 5 we win the series IMO. So whether Tanner spent time in Hartford is irrelevant, the spirit of what people would have said this time last year about Tanner/AV remained the same, even if the details in the middle changed. Actually, what ended up happening was probably even worse.

I still can't get over Tanner being on the ice with a minute left and us up a goal in game 5 vs Ottawa. The goal was scored after a cross ice pass went right past where Glass was supposed to be but of course he was out of position. Good pass by Karlsson, but Fast/Grabner/Zib/Miller (basically anyone else) deflects that pass away 10 out of 10 times. Or the pass isn't even attempted because they're properly taking away the passing lane. Ugh.

 

[Alluckks]

Why is expert testimony in court being analogized to whether or not you believe a coach influenced a players on-ice performance and plus/minus correlation?...

 

[eco's bones]

This is what you got out of my post?

+/- is a bad stat in the first place before you even consider that it's heavily biased towards players who get defensive usage.

Yeah--it is kind of what I got out of it. Hakstol thinks Gostisbehere has defensive issues so why would he be using Shayne on the PK?--and you start complaining that his +/- stinks more because he doesn't get +'s from shorthanded goals for and he gets minuses from shorthanded goals against.

 

[SA16]

I would suggest reading the post again and then indicating exactly where I stated that he should play on the PK.