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Roster Building Thread - Part II: Entry Draft Edition

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bleedblue94 said:
i think you too easily dismiss the idea that dolan wanted a star here for marketing despite a rebuild.
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I don't think so.

He did the same thing in Boston where they were terrible, traded Thornton and then turned around and signed Chara and Savard immediately after picking Kessel.

It's his MO. If he had space to do anything in Montreal he would probably be in on a bunch of guys this UFA season.
 
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DialUp said:
ToneD is going to do just fine under Torts. They share similar...worldly views. I wouldn't be surprised if he respects the hell out of Torts and falls immediately in line.

Flyers are going to be much better this year, they will get that new HC boost out of the gate. They could very well be who pushes Boston out of a PO spot.
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Over 85 million Americans share those same worldly views.
 
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IDvsEGO said:
The problem isnt their political views. its their hockey views.
Tony is terrible at defense, and tort doesn't care if you can score 40 goals as a defenseman if you dont block shots and play the body.
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I hear you, and it's deeper than political, not even going there - folks politics follow how they look at things in general. My guess is Tony is going to respond to Tort's shit.

Regardless, this is a very Flyers move. It makes the Hurricanes BETTER. We don't need *his skills* here, I was bustin balls with my earlier comment.
 
My take, some players will sign long term off their entry level, yet usually they will only do so if they've already broken out to a point they end up getting in total contract money about whatever they'd get if they took a bridge deal and then signed again. If the player has not broken out, he is better off taking a bridge if he thinks he will do so.

My biggest beef with bridge deals the Rangers usually give out, the agents want them so they end where the player has only 1 RFA year left, and that gives the agent a lot of leverage to get basically a pure UFA deal after the bridge.

Instead, leave the player with at least 2 RFA year left, in order to hit UFA, much like PLD wants, he is going to have to jump through some hoops while risking either injury or regression during those years. Most players in that spot would rather just sign something longer term at that point where they sell off the remaining RFA years at around RFA prices and then also sell off some UFA years at that times current UFA prices.

Chytil will have two RFA years left after this bridge, Regardless of how his game progresses I don't see the Rangers being in a bad position to extend him at that point unless they literally spent all their cap space on other stuff already.

Lindgren will be the more difficult decision, assuming he is still playing well. He'll have only 1 RFA year left, he can play for his qualifier, or take them to arbitration for that 1 year and become a UFA right after that deal. He does not have any reason to sell that 1 RFA year at RFA prices in a long term deal, nor does he have a reason to sell off UFA years before he sees what the market for those years gets set at.

If they extend Kakko on a bridge, they hopefully leave him with at least 2 RFA years after that bridge.
 
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Uninstaaled said:
The bridge in this situation is 100% on Gorton.

Barely a year into the rebuild, he went out and spent huge on Panarin, which is going to end up going down as his biggest mistake. A little bit less than 2 years after the letter, they tied up more than a quarter of their cap in 3 players (Panarin, Trouba, Kreider.)

It's one thing if you're spending big on keeping guys while your competing, but they weren't even competitive and he's handing out massive contracts before this team even has a chance to mold into anything. It was dumb then and it's still dumb. It's the instant gratification that some here (and him, he did the same thing in Boston) that just can't be resisted for what ever reason. Now it didn't crush Boston in the long run as they won eventually and have stayed pretty competitive for over a decade so we can only hope for the same here, but all it really does it make your work harder for you, or in JG's case, for his successors at both spots.

The flat cap also doesn't help matters.
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Gorton or JD?

Edit: I mean I agree with you, and did back when those signing were happening, Panarin was 10 years older than who they were drafting. Tough to make that sort of difference in ages work long term.

Yet it seemed to me like once JD came in things changed.
 
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ada is going to be fine in phili, he plays like a nut and torts loves the passion and so will phili fans. he is still a dick though
 
rangers1314 said:
NYR don't see Copp as a Center.

Winnipeg played him at RW. NYR traded for him to be a RW. They played Strome on 1 leg at Center over Copp at the position.

Copp looks in the mirror and see's a Center. He might be the only one.
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He can play every position.

He was at his best at Center with Panarin + no Strome.

He also was hobbled.

WPG had Scheiffele, PLD, Stastny and Lowry. Copp can play everywhere.
 
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Uninstaaled said:
The bridge in this situation is 100% on Gorton.

Barely a year into the rebuild, he went out and spent huge on Panarin, which is going to end up going down as his biggest mistake. A little bit less than 2 years after the letter, they tied up more than a quarter of their cap in 3 players (Panarin, Trouba, Kreider.)

It's one thing if you're spending big on keeping guys while your competing, but they weren't even competitive and he's handing out massive contracts before this team even has a chance to mold into anything. It was dumb then and it's still dumb. It's the instant gratification that some here (and him, he did the same thing in Boston) that just can't be resisted for what ever reason. Now it didn't crush Boston in the long run as they won eventually and have stayed pretty competitive for over a decade so we can only hope for the same here, but all it really does it make your work harder for you, or in JG's case, for his successors at both spots.

The flat cap also doesn't help matters.
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Completely agree on all counts.
 
Riche16 said:
Completely agree on all counts.
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I do too, just at the time Gorton was doing the sell off, then all of sudden JD was hired and the Rangers were signing Panarin. I am not so sure Gorton was the driving force behind the immediate switch of gears.
 
Off Sides said:
I do too, just at the time Gorton was doing the sell off, then all of sudden JD was hired and the Rangers were signing Panarin. I am not so sure Gorton was the driving force behind the immediate switch of gears.
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Might not have been but either way, Panarin was never going to line up w the rest and if Dolan was so hot to have a star (although when you're selling out regularly at MSG prices, not sure what else you could want... Panarin wasn't getting us into the playoffs by himself and it still took 4 yrs) I don't get why he then fired Gorts / JD if they were listening to him.

Whatever. It's all water under the bridge.

I will say at this point the org should have a grasp on the future ceilings and floors of guys like Laf, KK and esp Chytil. Knowing who and when to trade these kids is the only way to navigate the hardest part of the rebuild.

To say nothing of cap management lol
 
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Off Sides said:
I do too, just at the time Gorton was doing the sell off, then all of sudden JD was hired and the Rangers were signing Panarin. I am not so sure Gorton was the driving force behind the immediate switch of gears.
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Gorton dumped Stepan only to sign Shattenkirk weeks later before Davidson got here. I don't think the Rangers were ever going to ice a team devoid of talent.

Even in 2004 they signed Nylander after selling off everyone who anyone would take.

2018 was about selling the players they would need to commit into their late 30s and bringing in those you need to commit to into their early 30s.
 
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Thirty One said:
Gorton dumped Stepan only to sign Shattenkirk weeks later before Davidson got here. I don't think the Rangers were ever going to ice a team devoid of talent.

Even in 2004 they signed Nylander after selling off everyone who anyone would take.

2018 was about selling the players they would need to commit into their late 30s and bringing in those you need to commit to into their early 30s.
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I think the timeline was, I could be off, I just looked quickly)

2017
Stepan trade
Sign Shattenkirk
Suck

2018
Rebuild letter
sell everything
Suck

2019
Suck
Sell everything (Hayes Feb 2019)
Hire JD May 17 2019
Then sign Panarin

If so, it seems more like they were retooling until the rebuild letter, then they sold everything, then they changed gears once JD was hired.
 
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Riche16 said:
This has been a long failure of this org

The few times they did extend someone early, like they did w Skjei they ended up trading him.

We need to do a much better job of developing and scouting at the pro level... sorting out who we need to keep, who to be patient with, who we need to jettison and who to go after earlier than when they're UFAs

We draft, then trade Miller away and watch him develop elsewhere only to expend further assets to bring him back AFTER he's become something.

This is our way and it is a BIG part of why we never win cups.
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I agree with the bolded. Didn't they essentially do that by NOT resigning Skjei? Maybe he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place? All Gorton and Co. did for a while was draft defenseman.

How many other times has a "J.T. Miller situation" happened to the NYR? He fell out with A.V, who was kept too long. And this was Gorton's doing.

The NYR/Drury have cleaned house. Put the past away now. Let's see what Drury does next week. It should give us some insight about how he feels this team's chances are given the recent playoff run and this current roster.
 
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