Roster Building Thread - Part II: Entry Draft Edition

[JimmyG89]

These morons are starting to figure this out.

Nobody wants to pay JT Miller. At least none of the teams that they are negotiating with. It's not surprising either. Sure, some players will turn it around when they hit a certain age. We just saw Kreider drop 52 goals. If he had 1 year left on his deal and the Rangers were shopping him, we'd be asking for a lot in return, but who would want to pay him?

Miller at the age where he needs to go to a win now team. The win now teams don't have cap space. Every single one of them cannot afford to allocate 8.5-9M AAV to Miller for 6-7 years. Each team that is looking to trade for him is looking at this as a 1 year commitment. The Canucks are looking at it as if an extension is part of the package. Could some of these teams afford a 6.5-7M AAV cap hit? Most likely, but they aren't trading Bo Horvat.

They sat on this at last year's trade deadline. At least teams would get 2 runs with the guy. Now it is only one. Not only that, you have one of the best draft classes in a long time coming up. Is it realistic for a team that is on the bubble to make a move for him? Teams just saw what happened to Chicago and Seth Jones. Nobody wants to be that team. You will be getting teams that will put lottery protections on their 2023 picks. You won't get a better pick in the 2023 draft than you would have if the trade with the Islanders for #13 happened.

The Canucks wanted to hit a grand slam with this trade. They're more likely not even going to hit a home run with it. If they wait until the deadline, they will hit a double and be done with it. If they move now, you probably get a triple. If I had to guess where he ends up: Pittsburgh.

Not to mention that PLD and Scheifele are available in trades as well. PLD is younger and will be a little cheaper. More teams are open to moving for him, but what if the overlap in Miller candidates and PLD candidates make the PLD move first? Scheifele has 2 years left at a manageable cap hit. Some good centers in free agency too.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think Vancouver waits to see if a team gets desperate after missing out on guys in free agency. Don't think Drury is going to budge off of whatever his offer is right now.

I am curious to see what some of the mid-tier free agent centers like Copp & Trocheck get on the open market. Even Kadri. There isn't a lot of cap space to go around, at least not from the top teams in the league. If these guys want to go somewhere that they can win-now, they will have to leave money on the table.

I dont want to go halfway on guys like Copp or Trocheck or even Kadri with long deals. Too old. I'd rather gets a better guy or a younger guy or no long deal at all. I'm not even obsessed with it being a center. I'd take a dominant wing.

 

[McRanger92]

Nobody wants to pay JT Miller. At least none of the teams that they are negotiating with. It's not surprising either. Sure, some players will turn it around when they hit a certain age. We just saw Kreider drop 52 goals. If he had 1 year left on his deal and the Rangers were shopping him, we'd be asking for a lot in return, but who would want to pay him?

Miller at the age where he needs to go to a win now team. The win now teams don't have cap space. Every single one of them cannot afford to allocate 8.5-9M AAV to Miller for 6-7 years. Each team that is looking to trade for him is looking at this as a 1 year commitment. The Canucks are looking at it as if an extension is part of the package. Could some of these teams afford a 6.5-7M AAV cap hit? Most likely, but they aren't trading Bo Horvat.

They sat on this at last year's trade deadline. At least teams would get 2 runs with the guy. Now it is only one. Not only that, you have one of the best draft classes in a long time coming up. Is it realistic for a team that is on the bubble to make a move for him? Teams just saw what happened to Chicago and Seth Jones. Nobody wants to be that team. You will be getting teams that will put lottery protections on their 2023 picks. You won't get a better pick in the 2023 draft than you would have if the trade with the Islanders for #13 happened.

The Canucks wanted to hit a grand slam with this trade. They're more likely not even going to hit a home run with it. If they wait until the deadline, they will hit a double and be done with it. If they move now, you probably get a triple. If I had to guess where he ends up: Pittsburgh.

Not to mention that PLD and Scheifele are available in trades as well. PLD is younger and will be a little cheaper. More teams are open to moving for him, but what if the overlap in Miller candidates and PLD candidates make the PLD move first? Scheifele has 2 years left at a manageable cap hit. Some good centers in free agency too.

JT Miller is a really good player, but the Canucks helped assassinate his character over the past year and a half, and now it's coming back to bite them. No team is going to sign Miller right now, and he most likely wants to test free agency anyway. He's a rental, and no team is going to offer them more than a 1st rounder and a solid prospect. At the deadline it will be less.

Hopefully they come to this realization soon and trade him to the Rangers so they can get back at Grandpa Lou for backing out of the deal last night.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I hear you, and it's deeper than political, not even going there - folks politics follow how they look at things in general. My guess is Tony is going to respond to Tort's shit.

Regardless, this is a very Flyers move. It makes the Hurricanes BETTER. We don't need *his skills* here, I was bustin balls with my earlier comment.

Torts will be on his best behavior for a while. Its like in CBJ they called it the new Torts for a while till the old Torts reappeared.

 

[McRanger92]

Torts will be on his best behavior for a while. Its like in CBJ they called it the new Torts for a while till the old Torts reappeared.

They need the old Torts for that team. Every payer they gave big money too immediately regressed. Konecny, Provorov, etc. Don't want to include Hayes because he went through a personal tragedy but I am sure they regret that contract. Ryan Ellis wants no part of them. Country club atmosphere. They need Torts to come in and crack the whip.

 

[Ola]

The beat writers already have their articles written before they interview these guys.

"It was nice getting the draft picks from the deadline back, right?"

"The goalie market is substantial, that's why you were able to move Georgiev, right?"

Yeah, the questions must be better though. Drury won't comment on things that can expose him or anyone else. But could he comment on if they look for a veteran back-up or someone that is up and coming? Maybe.

 

[NickyFotiu]

They need the old Torts for that team. Every payer they gave big money too immediately regressed. Konecny, Provorov, etc. Don't want to include Hayes because he went through a personal tragedy but I am sure they regret that contract. Ryan Ellis wants no part of them. Country club atmosphere. They need Torts to come in and crack the whip.

I just mean we will not see the public spectacles for a while. His assistants may run hard practices though.

 

[NikC]

Torts will be on his best behavior for a while. Its like in CBJ they called it the new Torts for a while till the old Torts reappeared.

Yeah, it's only a matter of time for him. His stint with us, and with CBJ at first had a degree of sucess.

He has a limited shelf life with teams. Think about how desperate the Flyers org is just to bring him in.
They literally have lost their way as franchise. It's like boxer who doesn't want to fight.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah, the questions must be better though. Drury won't comment on things that can expose him or anyone else. But could he comment on if they look for a veteran back-up or someone that is up and coming? Maybe.

I respect that Drury keeps his cards close to his vest. I feel there is a real respect factor with our GM and coach around the league with other guys like Sakic, Yzermen, Suter, and Cooper. For right or wrong there is often a bit of respect with guys you played with, against or coached with over the years.

Yeah, it's only a matter of time for him. His stint with us, and with CBJ at first had a degree of sucess.

He has a limited shelf life with teams. Think about how desperate the Flyers org is just to bring him in.
They literally have lost their way as franchise. It's like boxer who doesn't want to fight.

I do not know if this is before your time but he reminds me a little of Billy Martin although I liked Billy much more than Torts.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Because we don’t have enough controversial wingers to complain about?

Gallant will just love him.

 

[Thirty One]

What it'd take for Rangers to keep Copp, plus backup goalie market, more buzz from draft

Friday's Day 2 of the draft provided updates on some key Rangers situations ahead of Wednesday's start of unrestricted free agency.

theathletic.com

"Things can change as the final hours approach, but Ryan Strome on the other hand appears headed elsewhere, even if Copp leaves as well. A league source said the Rangers and Strome have had no real contract talks since the regular season ended."

Sorry guys, sounds like Strome is gone.

 

[Ola]

Torts will be on his best behavior for a while. Its like in CBJ they called it the new Torts for a while till the old Torts reappeared.

From my POV, Torts has been a pure ponzi fraud since the 05' lock-out more or less. He is too stubborn to see that certain things that he wants done 'his way', is not the best ways anymore.

If Torts way was successful, he would be a tremendous coach. He is tremendous at implementing his game plan, motivating players, etc etc etc.

This is not uncommon, the best coaches in one era often become the worst coaches in the next era if there is a drastic change to the game like we saw in 05'. But its not a sufficient excuse anyway. Like look at how the NHL have developed, look at what is succesful in the game today and compare that with some of the stuff Torts has been preaching which is the complete opposite. Is it possible to be less accountable when you aren't man enough and stand up and admit that hey, we got some soul searching to do.

Due to the above, players quite in a dramtic fashion on Torts. They are not dumb, they see that Torts makes them worse players and does not give their team a chance to succeed. Torts won't start a war with his players in Philly, but if he doesn't make serious adoptions to his game plan, most players will abandon ship which happened in Columbus and turned Torts really sour.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

What it'd take for Rangers to keep Copp, plus backup goalie market, more buzz from draft

Friday's Day 2 of the draft provided updates on some key Rangers situations ahead of Wednesday's start of unrestricted free agency.

theathletic.com

"Things can change as the final hours approach, but Ryan Strome on the other hand appears headed elsewhere, even if Copp leaves as well. A league source said the Rangers and Strome have had no real contract talks since the regular season ended."

Sorry guys, sounds like Strome is gone.

f*** this team. Fire Gorton already.

 

[Ola]

This has been a long failure of this org

The few times they did extend someone early, like they did w Skjei they ended up trading him.

We need to do a much better job of developing and scouting at the pro level... sorting out who we need to keep, who to be patient with, who we need to jettison and who to go after earlier than when they're UFAs

We draft, then trade Miller away and watch him develop elsewhere only to expend further assets to bring him back AFTER he's become something.

This is our way and it is a BIG part of why we never win cups.

100% agree, and management has really never been held accountable for it. All the players we sold off over the years getting cents on the dollar, they would have returned so much more had they been signed to decent contracts. The fact that we extended Skjei to a long term contract probably up'ed his value from a 2nd+ to a 1st. Skjei wasn't a great signing. Look at all the bridge deals signed, they look horrible in hindsight. I have never seen a report call out a bridge deal.

-------------

On another note:

If NHL GMs were logical, Ryan Strome on a 1 year deal would be logical/likely. Why on earth would anyone sign him to a long term deal with the health issues? Drury confirmed that he isn't getting surgery. He wants to state that he is ready for camp. Won't be pretty.

 

[NickyFotiu]

From my POV, Torts has been a pure ponzi fraud since the 05' lock-out more or less. He is too stubborn to see that certain things that he wants done 'his way', is not the best ways anymore.

If Torts way was successful, he would be a tremendous coach. He is tremendous at implementing his game plan, motivating players, etc etc etc.

This is not uncommon, the best coaches in one era often become the worst coaches in the next era if there is a drastic change to the game like we saw in 05'. But its not a sufficient excuse anyway. Like look at how the NHL have developed, look at what is succesful in the game today and compare that with some of the stuff Torts has been preaching which is the complete opposite. Is it possible to be less accountable when you aren't man enough and stand up and admit that hey, we got some soul searching to do.

Due to the above, players quite in a dramtic fashion on Torts. They are not dumb, they see that Torts makes them worse players and does not give their team a chance to succeed. Torts won't start a war with his players in Philly, but if he doesn't make serious adoptions to his game plan, most players will abandon ship which happened in Columbus and turned Torts really sour.

I'm not a fan of his. My dad was and then he changed his mind. When things go well Torts wants to be the star. When things go bad its on the players. His former friend with TB even said something to the effect that there is a clock with Torts where things will go bad. Just a matter of how long. I remember his last season here. The players looked miserable on the ice. You cant win if you hate playing imo. His last season as a CBJ it was not even if he would be brought back. They were just like lets get through this season and move on. CBJ played a heck of a lot better without him this season despite trading Jones.

 

[bleedblue94]

Gallant will just love him.

Don't forget the pull-up in game 7 against the bruins when the leafs were down by a goal w 30 seconds left and he backed off getting a puck in the corner and just let chara go get it and clear it. Want nothing at all to do with that loser type player.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Mathews gets al the ink in Toronto but that kid Marner produces a heck of a lot as well. He should probably come here.

 

[RangerBoy]

What it'd take for Rangers to keep Copp, plus backup goalie market, more buzz from draft

Friday's Day 2 of the draft provided updates on some key Rangers situations ahead of Wednesday's start of unrestricted free agency.

theathletic.com

"Things can change as the final hours approach, but Ryan Strome on the other hand appears headed elsewhere, even if Copp leaves as well. A league source said the Rangers and Strome have had no real contract talks since the regular season ended."

Sorry guys, sounds like Strome is gone.

Are you trying to ruin everyone's weekend?

No Strome. I am devastated.

 

[bbny]

They call him Biggest Bozo for a reason

Are your pronouns they/them?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Don't forget the pull-up in game 7 against the bruins when the leafs were down by a goal w 30 seconds left and he backed off getting a puck in the corner and just let chara go get it and clear it. Want nothing at all to do with that loser type player.

That was the clip I was looking for but was unable to find it.
Yeah, that was just hard to watch; he should have been scratched just to set an example.

 

[TominNC]

Fans also shouldnt lose sight of the fact that we would've been drafting top 10 this year without Panarin/Trouba/Kreider. Their contracts were market value when they were signed and they remain 3 of our 6 best players.

Those are the fans who’d rather lose and draft top 10 forever

 

[Ola]

If I am Drury, this is my game plan:

(a) Dangle Braden Schneider for a young C with speed. I love Schneider as much as anyone and think that he has a ton of potential. Facts are, in my world, that we need a young C with speed much more than we need a RD to play behind Fox and Trouba who aren't going anywhere.

Alex Newhook from Colorado?

(b) Move Filip Chytil. I really like a lot of things about Chytil, seems like a great kid. I think he will peak later in his 20s like Mika and he could become a good top 6 C.

But is he what we need? Speed at C has been the deciding factor in the POs for a long time, its what teams haven't been able to counter. We are big on the wing, we have so much skill on the wing. its always a balance act.

I would target someone like Robertson in Toronto. Relentless, strong on the puck, fits the bill to the T from my POV.

(c) Get a clutch speedy center to play with Panarin and build a match-up line of 'Panarin's line' (Jordan Staal centered a 'checking line', most match-up lines are puck hog lines, not checking lines).

Who would this be? Carl Järnkrok is available. He isn't the worst option.

(d) Lineup:
Kreider-Ziba-Kravy
Laf-Newhook-Kakko
Panarin-Järnkrok-Robertson
Reeves-Goodrow-Blais
Hunt
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Braun

(e) I like the above team. I feel comfortable that we are in better shape in 23/24 than this year or even last, with that team. It has potential if things come together, and players are put in position to do thrive. I Kravy is the one who fits with Kreider and Ziba. Newhook's speed and creativity at center ice is huge for Laf and Kakko, they need that playmaker at center that will draw attention, put Ds on their heels.

Some will feel that Panarin must be higher up the lineup. That is nonsense from my POV. He plays 2 min on the PP and the match-up line plays a lot 5 on 5. Kreider and Ziba will never be able to come out on top when they face the toughest match-ups. At best they will be "0-0".

 

[Ola]

I'm not a fan of his. My dad was and then he changed his mind. When things go well Torts wants to be the star. When things go bad its on the players. His former friend with TB even said something to the effect that there is a clock with Torts where things will go bad. Just a matter of how long. I remember his last season here. The players looked miserable on the ice. You cant win if you hate playing imo. His last season as a CBJ it was not even if he would be brought back. They were just like lets get through this season and move on. CBJ played a heck of a lot better without him this season despite trading Jones.

After his last season in Tampa and performance against NJ in the POs, he never should have coached again in this league.

These guys were so tired in each 3rd period against NJ that they had no chance to compete. It was like Torts sent them out on the ice to punish them.

Is that accountability?

 

[AirGut]

I'm officially over the whole "move Chytil for a 2C upgrade" phase now. Moving a potential future 1C is just bad juju

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’m not convinced we are rid of Strome until he’s signed on the dotted line elsewhere lol