- Nov 2, 2011
- 7,929
- 8,265
What does he have to do? Play a lot better in the regular season and have better conditioning so you stop getting hurt all the time.
Roster Building Thread - Part II: Entry Draft Edition
- Thread starter BBKers
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
7 years is just too much of an investment for Copp. I like him a lot but this is not some high end top 6 player. He is a very good middle 6 forward. Not elite but very good. $5 million and 5 years was my max threshold. If he can get more than that then good for him, go get your money. I am certain it will be Detroit who can afford to have that kinda contract on their payroll for the next 5 years. Copp just wont be competing for a cup for at least another 2 years.
Strome, Lol. I cannot wait until he signs somewhere else.
Strome, Lol. I cannot wait until he signs somewhere else.
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
- 14,367
- 26,784
Copp & Strome are both not good enough to be in this team’s top 6 during this 3 year window. Drury either needs to find a guy he’s willing to commit to forever like Fox/Zibanejad or go year by year with short term rentals. 2C is the last piece of the puzzle.
Money is tight. Some of these players will realize it next Wednesday. The Fiala trade. People said Minnesota didn't get much in return. Teams don't have $8M to give Fiala. Don't worry. DeBrincat will bring back a ton of value. The DeBrincat trade is made. What is Chicago doing? Fiala signed a huge contract. DeBrincat has a huge QO next summer. $9M. He can become a group III in 2024. I read teams were leery of trading for DeBrincat and having to pay him a ton of money. That hurt his trade value. How soon before we read in the Ottawa Sun about Ottawa looking to move DeBrincat because the Melnyk daughters don't want to give DeBrinat $80M? Some of these fans are complaining about the return. The Rangers were hurt by the flat cap last summer with Buchnevich. They couldn't afford the player long-term. There weren't many teams who wanted to pay Buchnevich nearly $6M AAV.
Chychrun wasn't traded. Montreal has cap issues. None of their guys were traded. Anderson. Petry. Dvorak. The Canadian was speculating about the Habs getting the 2nd pick from the Devils. Wouldn't it be something if Montreal had picks #1 and #2? What was Montreal trading for the 2nd pick? Anderson? These guys talk about Anderson like he is Shanahan from the mid-1990's.
Maybe someone is traded today.
Chychrun wasn't traded. Montreal has cap issues. None of their guys were traded. Anderson. Petry. Dvorak. The Canadian was speculating about the Habs getting the 2nd pick from the Devils. Wouldn't it be something if Montreal had picks #1 and #2? What was Montreal trading for the 2nd pick? Anderson? These guys talk about Anderson like he is Shanahan from the mid-1990's.
Maybe someone is traded today.
100% agree.
The second you give a player a bridge deal you turn that player into a lose/lose asset — or at least non-win/non-win asset.
If the player plays well, he will get market value and never really be an asset that outperforms his pay (which is all that matters in today’s NHL). It instantly becomes an issue. Especially with players that had tangible results of their play, ie production.
Take Chytil and Blais for example. They are perfect examples of this.
I constantly see posts about how Chytil possibly could become our 2nd line center if we try him there next season. Like lol, there is no scenario that is possible. Let’s say we try him there and he scores 60 pts with Panarin, then he is a 5-6m player next summer. We can’t afford that. Anyone trading for him if we move him would pay cents on the dollar.
Seriously, I am very surprised how this is not obvious to some that have followed this league closely for years. Or what am I missing? Of course there might be some scenario where he actually plays like a 2c but don’t produce like one, but yeah, that is not something you count on.
It’s the same with Blais. He is a 1 year “rental” that we can keep if he sucks. Blais has some potential. If he comes back and plays well, at least within 1-2 years, he is up there in pay that we can’t afford for a player like him. Right?
And it’s of course the same with Kaapo Kakko. The second we give him a bridge deal, the alternative where he becomes a valuable asset for us cease to exist. He will always be paid exactly what he is worth. More or less. We have zero leverage to force him to take a long term deal. Perhaps it doesn’t seem like it right now, but take my word for it, it will. His ‘break out’ year could be valuable (knock on wood). I am not saying that it’s wrong to give KK a bridge deal, but we must be aware the second we does that it impacts his potential value to us tremendously. Just like Buch.
There really is not many differences between a veteran rental and a kid on a bridge deal.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
- 7,993
- 4,459
MarkMessyay11
Registered User
I agree. Strome is the easier one…we milked that well as dry as we could have. Best of luck to him and thanks for everything.
Copp is a tougher pill to swallow, being that we ended up trading a 1st for him. But the experience of a deep run for this team was worth the price. I think Copp is a great, versatile player. But he’s not the solution at 2C…committing 7 years at north of $5.5M to another winger just isn’t in the cards for us right now.
Drury has his work cut out for him though. If this team wants to continue to progress into that contender echelon, they need a true 2C…and at a reasonable cost. Unless there’s a surprise move, all signs point to JT Miller being the short term solution in my mind. Especially if Vancouver retains salary.
Hopefully Vancouver blinks first on the price.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Ding ding ding! The Chytil commentary is so accurate. The best case scenario for Rangers fans is that he *does* prove he’s a legit 2C. But then the problem is there won’t be any room to sign him on his next deal. So he’s lost anyway. Might as well trade him while he has trade value.
NYR Viper
Registered User
What I think is likely, with many of these UFA's, is that there are a select number of open spots on a contender with cap space. There are teams out there who may overpay for a guy like Strome or Copp or others. In saying that, there aren't enough spots for ALL of them. Once a few dominoes fall, it's going to be like musical chairs where a lot of these guys are going to be scrambling to find a chair. This SHOULD put Drury in a good spot if he holds firm.
I also get the sense that all of these rumors about going after PLD, Miller, etc are smokescreens to try to force Copp to re-sign before UFA at Drury's number. Pretty much saying, 'if you're going wait and play this game, we will pursue other options and this chair may not be here when you look to find it'.
I also get the sense that all of these rumors about going after PLD, Miller, etc are smokescreens to try to force Copp to re-sign before UFA at Drury's number. Pretty much saying, 'if you're going wait and play this game, we will pursue other options and this chair may not be here when you look to find it'.
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,928
- 22,849
If we don't add someone else to be 2c then we can afford to re-sign Chytil.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
I agree about bridge deals. Unfortunately because of the flat cap, it complicates things. The young players have agents. They know the cap is going up. They are still developing. They have no urgency to sign long term until they prove themselves. The teams are nervous to spend valuable cap on unproven young guys.
The Rangers in particular have no money available this year and next. If they add no one of significant value, they can probably sign Lafreniere and Miller long term in the $5-6M range. But that will complicate the rest of the roster. Will probably be worth it, if they’re willing to do it. I have my doubts.
Signing Chytil and Kakko long term would have been a great move. Say they signed Chytil 6 years $3.8M per year. Year 4-6 of that deal would be a boon. I get it. But the cap isn’t going up. That deal would force the Rangers hand in these two seasons anyway. Same with Kakko. If you give Kakko $4+M on a 5-7 year deal, how are you adding a 2C?
The only additional point I’ll make is that these players of high pedigree are movable when they sign long term deals. Skjei at 5/5 got a 1st round pick. If he was RFA about to sign for 6.5 he probably gets less in a trade. So even if the plan is to move the player, it might be best to get them on a reasonable hit first. It’s just not as simple as signing them to deals you want, they have agents negotiating and the cap is not moving. We have Panarin (11.6) Fox (9.5) Zibanejad (8.5) Trouba (8) Kreider (6.5) Shesterkin (5.6) locked in. That’s $50M. $32M for the rest of the roster.
The Rangers in particular have no money available this year and next. If they add no one of significant value, they can probably sign Lafreniere and Miller long term in the $5-6M range. But that will complicate the rest of the roster. Will probably be worth it, if they’re willing to do it. I have my doubts.
Signing Chytil and Kakko long term would have been a great move. Say they signed Chytil 6 years $3.8M per year. Year 4-6 of that deal would be a boon. I get it. But the cap isn’t going up. That deal would force the Rangers hand in these two seasons anyway. Same with Kakko. If you give Kakko $4+M on a 5-7 year deal, how are you adding a 2C?
The only additional point I’ll make is that these players of high pedigree are movable when they sign long term deals. Skjei at 5/5 got a 1st round pick. If he was RFA about to sign for 6.5 he probably gets less in a trade. So even if the plan is to move the player, it might be best to get them on a reasonable hit first. It’s just not as simple as signing them to deals you want, they have agents negotiating and the cap is not moving. We have Panarin (11.6) Fox (9.5) Zibanejad (8.5) Trouba (8) Kreider (6.5) Shesterkin (5.6) locked in. That’s $50M. $32M for the rest of the roster.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Really depends what Laf, KAM, Kravtsov, Kakko, and even Shesterkin are going to get with their next deals. You're likely going to be in a spot where you need to dump one of Kreider and/or Trouba's contracts soon to make it all work. And that's what you'd have to do for a prospective 2C from outside the organization anyway, so why not grab someone now who is more of a sure thing than Chytil?
bbny
Unregistered User
- Apr 12, 2019
- 2,217
- 3,616
If Chytil proves he is a legit 2C, he will pass up others in terms of value to the team and they will find a way to make sure they keep him.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
I'm not saying they won't keep him. What I am saying is it will require the same long-term moves of dumping other long term contracts (ie. Trouba or Kreider) to make it fit that the Rangers would be forced to do if they wanted to sign someone like Miller or PLD long-term.
The only additional value Chytil provides over those outside moves is a cap hit of only $2.3M for this one season. For what is basically rolling the dice on him to actually become a 2C, I'm not sure that one year of cap flexibility is that much added value vs. a known commodity.
It’s shameful what Chicago and Arizona are doing. I said it at the time and still feel the same way. Yzerman was wrong to persuade the league to change the draft rules. Teams shouldn’t be rewarded for tanking and teams should not be punished for trying to win while rebuilding.
rangers1314
Registered User
Well there is a difference between shedding money, getting young players & picks with the aim to reset your franchise and complete in 2 years versus being a decades long humiliation like AZ.
You see this type of "reset" like Chicago is doing in other sports. It's not uncommon. And when the ONLY chance you have at sustained success if via the draft, you gotta get yourself a lot of picks (and have the luck of a few of them being high).
NYblades
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2004
- 547
- 630
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
I agree that it stinks. But the reality for contending teams, like the Rangers, right now is that shedding salary to those teams tanking is pretty damn easy. Go dump every bad contract you have for draft collateral right now. It's going to kill parity in the sport, but if you're not doing it, you're not truly be competitive either.
If Nemeth isn't traded, it will have been a wasted opportunity for Drury. You could probably add a couple more names in there as well.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
nah. Their blue line is still dookie but we'll see how Sanderson develops.
pld459666
Registered User
I'd rater try to fit a player off a Bridge deal after having a great season than trying to trade a player that has busted making 4-5+ million with 3-4 years of term left.
guys like CK and Trouba are not long for this franchise anyway, their replacements are here and if the kids push them out, much like McDonagh got moved with a NTC, so too can our higher dollar guys with expiring shelf lives.
guys like CK and Trouba are not long for this franchise anyway, their replacements are here and if the kids push them out, much like McDonagh got moved with a NTC, so too can our higher dollar guys with expiring shelf lives.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,240
- 53,879
I hate to be the bearer of bad news... but Andrew Copp is about as good as it gets for our middle6C role. Letting him walk is not the play.
This is all negotiation. Both parties are trying to get the best prices.
This is all negotiation. Both parties are trying to get the best prices.
bbny
Unregistered User
- Apr 12, 2019
- 2,217
- 3,616
I get what you are saying, but maybe it depends on what “becomes a 2C” means. If he scores something like 20 goals and 50 points, I think that shows he’s well on his way. He would still probably cost well under $5M on a 2-4 year extension, which is significantly cheaper than the other options.
Of course he doesn't. That is why he is the GM and his job is to put together the best roster possible. What he sees in FC is someone who has been very inconsistent over his career and potentially lacking some key skill traits to be a number 2 center. Yes he had a solid playoff performance but if you are running this club you are not basing your decision on 3 weeks. The concept people float on this board about sticking FC into the number 2 and see what he does or even if FC does not pan out we can always upgrade at the TDL is not realistic for a GM who has to earn his stripes and prove himself all the time.
rangers1314
Registered User
- Status
