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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

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Is "Runs out of gas" a synonym for "Has a 0% shooting percentage despite a way above average 2.78 shots per game (or 0.96% on 104 shots with 2.74 shots/game) since returning to the NHL?"
 
McD37 said:
Jagr got offers. Person close to him said in the Czech media that those offers were kind of insulting. Probably in 1-2 million range. Look what Thornton and Marleau got... and I understand Jagr.
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Those guys are still top line players.... Jagr now is an slow overrated bottom six wing.
 
DrRecchi said:
Sure he's old, but anyone who plays on the same line as him gets their production increased tenfold.

He's much better than Marleau who got 3 years at a ridiculous cap hit.
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I think Marleau's deal at 2 years would not be that crazy. 3 is definitely nuts, but it depends on who he will play with.
 
Jagr isn't overrated and he isn't a bottom six player.

He ranked 112 out of 351 in points/60 this year among forwards with 500+ minutes (68 of 136 with 1000+)

He ranked 1 out of 352 in points/60 last year among forwards with 500+ minutes (1 of 125 with 1000+)

He ranked 110 out of 359 in points/60 two years ago among forwards with 500+ minutes (57 of 121 with 1000+)

There are pretty much three reasons people are not interested in him now:

1. He's had bad playoffs which in reality is just a shooting percentage thing. His assist rates have been about the same.

2. He's old and 95% of this board hates player who are even 30 so forget about someone in his 40s.

3. He's slow and everyone has come to the conclusion that to be good you need to be fast and if you are slow you are bad. There are good fast players. There are bad fast players. There are good slow players. There are bad slow players. Speed has become insanely overrated. It's just one factor. All Jagr has ever done and still does is produce and he doesn't do it like Marleau who has scored a lot of points simply be being force fed a ton of minutes. So why does it matter if he's not fast? Because he doesn't play the style that you believe is important even though he puts up better numbers than most fast players?
 
SA16 said:
Jagr isn't overrated and he isn't a bottom six player.

He ranked 112 out of 351 in points/60 this year among forwards with 500+ minutes (68 of 136 with 1000+)

He ranked 1 out of 352 in points/60 last year among forwards with 500+ minutes (1 of 125 with 1000+)

He ranked 110 out of 359 in points/60 two years ago among forwards with 500+ minutes (57 of 121 with 1000+)

There are pretty much three reasons people are not interested in him now:

1. He's had bad playoffs which in reality is just a shooting percentage thing. His assist rates have been about the same.

2. He's old and 95% of this board hates player who are even 30 so forget about someone in his 40s.

3. He's slow and everyone has come to the conclusion that to be good you need to be fast and if you are slow you are bad. There are good fast players. There are bad fast players. There are good slow players. There are bad slow players. Speed has become insanely overrated. It's just one factor. All Jagr has ever done and still does is produce and he doesn't do it like Marleau who has scored a lot of points simply be being force fed a ton of minutes. So why does it matter if he's not fast? Because he doesn't play the style that you believe is important even though he puts up better numbers than most fast players?
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Not to mention his absurd shot and goal impacts.
 
I'm not saying I think the Rangers are interested or that he would even want to come back. Just that the narrative of him not being good anymore because he's old and slow is absolute nonsense. He would be a major asset to pretty much any team in the league. He's especially valuable because you sign him and say he falls off a cliff and loses it - so what? It's a one year commitment. No big deal.

Older. Smarter. Experience. Hockey Sense. Leadership.
 
SA16 said:
Jagr isn't overrated and he isn't a bottom six player.

He ranked 112 out of 351 in points/60 this year among forwards with 500+ minutes (68 of 136 with 1000+)

He ranked 1 out of 352 in points/60 last year among forwards with 500+ minutes (1 of 125 with 1000+)

He ranked 110 out of 359 in points/60 two years ago among forwards with 500+ minutes (57 of 121 with 1000+)

There are pretty much three reasons people are not interested in him now:

1. He's had bad playoffs which in reality is just a shooting percentage thing. His assist rates have been about the same.

2. He's old and 95% of this board hates player who are even 30 so forget about someone in his 40s.

3. He's slow and everyone has come to the conclusion that to be good you need to be fast and if you are slow you are bad. There are good fast players. There are bad fast players. There are good slow players. There are bad slow players. Speed has become insanely overrated. It's just one factor. All Jagr has ever done and still does is produce and he doesn't do it like Marleau who has scored a lot of points simply be being force fed a ton of minutes. So why does it matter if he's not fast? Because he doesn't play the style that you believe is important even though he puts up better numbers than most fast players?
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Great post.

Not every player on your team can be fast or has to be fast. Nor does fast automatically equal good or the recipe to win. The NHL is certainly a faster game but that just one piece of the puzzle to make up a competitive roster.

The fact is Jagr has remained productive past age 40. He would still be impactful in a 3rd line RW and 2nd PP unit. Slide Miller to Center and put Jagr on the wing.
 
Jagr may be slow, but there is nothing wrong with 1 out of 4 lines being a change of pace.

Having 3 speedy lines and 1 line that is more cycle oriented would be fine. If Jagr was on the 3rd line, he would immediately make whoever the 3C is better (Hayes? Desharnais? Andersson?) and would be a good contributor on PP2. Plus, never forget, nothing moves faster than the puck. You can be not the fastest skater but play in an uptempo system effectively.

I'd gladly take him back for 3-4m for 1 year.


However, Gorton isn't going to do it. He's clearly very focused on getting younger and building a speed team.
 
Glen Sathers Cigar said:
Jagr may be slow, but there is nothing wrong with 1 out of 4 lines being a change of pace.

Having 3 speedy lines and 1 line that is more cycle oriented would be fine. If Jagr was on the 3rd line, he would immediately make whoever the 3C is better (Hayes? Desharnais? Andersson?) and would be a good contributor on PP2. Plus, never forget, nothing moves faster than the puck. You can be not the fastest skater but play in an uptempo system effectively.

I'd gladly take him back for 3-4m for 1 year.


However, Gorton isn't going to do it. He's clearly very focused on getting younger and building a speed team.
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having lines that can play differently isn't just fine it is probably ideal. when all 4 line are exactly the same you are easier to defend and increase the risk of running into an opponent that is just a bad matchup.
 
I'm not saying we need to sign Jagr but people are way too obsessed with age. Jagr, Selanne (ret), Cullen, Thornton, etc have all shown they can still play at, near, or over 40. So have others. Heck we have had boxing champions around 40. I wish we judged players more on their actual play.
 
Leetch3 said:
having lines that can play differently isn't just fine it is probably ideal. when all 4 line are exactly the same you are easier to defend and increase the risk of running into an opponent that is just a bad matchup.
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Which is basically what happened to us against the Kings.

They were just a bad matchup for us.
 
The only thing bad about Jagr is his speed. He's great at everything else.

Whatever. Haters gonna hate.
 
NickyFotiu said:
I'm not saying we need to sign Jagr but people are way too obsessed with age. Jagr, Selanne (ret), Cullen, Thornton, etc have all shown they can still play at, near, or over 40. So have others. Heck we have had boxing champions around 40. I wish we judged players more on their actual play.
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There are outliers in every situation, you make it sound like this is the norm. Most guys start to tail off around age 28 and then more drastically after 30.

Jagr happens to be the epitome of the outliers in this situation though. I'd be fine with him for cheap.
 
Lol he maybe slow but lots of faster players can't get the puck away from him in the corners. He's the best at that and it's not even close.

Edit: I still can't believe his work ethic, he was skating after our mens league games in Florida. He had weight belts and vest on skating around for at least an hour or so. He deserves to stay around with that dedication.
 
silverfish said:
People have all these hang ups around how players should look. Too slow. Too short. Too fat. Too skinny.

Who cares. If you can play, I want you on my team.
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Kessel doesn't look skinny often but he remains one of the leagues faster guys.

I can still play but how much does your team pay? I never heard of the Silverfishes.
 
Irishguy42 said:
The only thing bad about Jagr is his speed. He's great at everything else.

Whatever. Haters gonna hate.
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If he can still skate well enough and utilize his skill and power that would go a long way with some of the line mates this team could offer.
 
Chief Ranger said:
If he can still skate well enough and utilize his skill and power that would go a long way with some of the line mates this team could offer.
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I watched a few Panthers games this year.

Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau would flat out dominate opposing teams for shifts at a time. Multiple times a game they would have the puck for 1min+. He's not going to be the guy retrieving pucks, but he still has elite puck protection and board play. Pair him with a speedy winger that can dig pucks out, and he would absolutely help out this team.
 
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