Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

[Gardner McKay]

I think you're right and he was worried about Stepan becoming another Callahan, and breaking down quicker than people thought. Like I said, they could have still signed Shattenkirk and kept Stepan if they really wanted to.

Yeah and? There are a lot of things you CAN do. That doesn't mean they are good ideas.

I don't know that Stepan is going to break down like Callahan did. It has more to do with his skating. Not that it was a hindrance but in a game that is getting faster and faster each day, I think it concerned management.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Yeah but apparently if you don't believe that all four of these things will happen, you're only looking at the 'worst case scenario'

Hayes put up points last year, sure, but otherwise he was pure trash. Arguably his worst season in the league. His entire career thus far has been a downward trend. Only two years younger than Stepan...

Hayes was carried by his linemates all season. Dude hasn't shown he can drive anything since his rookie season. Good thing he's up for a huge contract this season too. And ****ing LOL at saying Stepan is slow like Hayes doesn't skate like he's in quicksand

 

[offdacrossbar]

Yeah but apparently if you don't believe that all four of these things will happen, you're only looking at the 'worst case scenario'

not really

its a matter of perception.

mika is in fact the better option than stepan. thats what the organization decided anyway. to expect him to be a true top pivot isnt a stretch at all. he's got the game and if healthy, would have out pointed step last season. he's bigger, faster, stronger, has the better shot and can play all 3 zones.

he is in fact, better and will have the better season than will step in the desert.

it is not a stretch at all to assume that mika can assume the 1C role here.

hayes, again, was only 6 points off steps pace and played alot less key minutes. management seems to believe in this kid and again, giving him the opportunity with increased minutes and responsibility will result in better production. thats my opinion, but i think its shared by JG and AV.

those 2 will be fine. DD at the 3 and andersson at the 4 im fine with to start the season.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

No need to move Holden. He is a very solid 5th D-man.

Sure. He can join our 3rd pair along with Staal, Deangelo and Beresgalov.

Somebody is going to be traded. Ideally its Staal, but realistically its Holden.

 

[silverfish]

Hayes was carried by his linemates all season. Dude hasn't shown he can drive anything since his rookie season. Good thing he's up for a huge contract this season too. And ****ing LOL at saying Stepan is slow like Hayes doesn't skate like he's in quicksand

It's just annoying that the people trying to pump Hayes and Zibanejad are also going to be the first people bashing the **** out of them when or if they can't handle the increased role.

I think Zib will be fine. I'm a huge Hayes guy. Was one of his staunchest defenders last off-season. But he was absolute garbage last season. His sophomore season was worse than his rookie season. It's a troubling trajectory. He's 25 years old.

What happened to younger, better, faster, cheaper? Or is that only the mantra about players you don't like?

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Except what you described is not winning, it is desperation, proven as often wrong and useless, to just continually throw valued resources, compounded when same is overpayment, and they neither win nor retain assets we can inventory and use.

Build. damnit
stop squandering for Clowe, EStaal

recognize that win now is indeed invalid

So your argument is that the Rangers, the 8th youngest team in the league currently, coming off of their 3rd consecutive 100+ point season, after completely revamping their defensemen from bottom 10 of the league to arguably top 5, and with the most cap space they have had in a long time, should tear it all down because winning now is invalid. I think you pretty much proved my point.

 

[offdacrossbar]

It's just annoying that the people trying to pump Hayes and Zibanejad are also going to be the first people bashing the **** out of them when or if they can't handle the increased role.

I think Zib will be fine. I'm a huge Hayes guy. Was one of his staunchest defenders last off-season. But he was absolute garbage last season. His sophomore season was worse than his rookie season. It's a troubling trajectory. He's 25 years old.

What happened to younger, better, faster, cheaper?

hayes started like gang busters then tailed off. im also a big time fan of kevin spicoli.

his upside continues to be huge and at 6'5 he's a load. he's not fast but an effective skater. matching hayes with 2 swift wingers seems smart. i like him on the pp in the future as well. good hands and big body.

i think everyone here is sleeping on lias andersson. i may be a huge fanboy but i expect this kid to break camp with the team. i expect he will surprise and do well in a 4C role and eventually move to the 3C. the planets seem to be aligned for him. management has been drooling over him so far.

its a huge gamble but this kid is nhl ready now- and was drafted knowing that very thing, and if he booms, he solves a problem and makes the middle of the ice alot better.

 

[Gardner McKay]

So your argument is that the Rangers, the 8th youngest team in the league currently, coming off of their 3rd consecutive 100+ point season, after completely revamping their defensemen from bottom 10 of the league to arguably top 5, and with the most cap space they have had in a long time, should tear it all down because winning now is invalid. I think you pretty much proved my point.

Great post.

Not to mention, Clowe was what, 4 years ago and under a different GM?

Its absurd. We are a young team and our defense is now ridiculous.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah but apparently if you don't believe that all four of these things will happen, you're only looking at the 'worst case scenario'

Hayes put up points last year, sure, but otherwise he was pure trash. Arguably his worst season in the league. His entire career thus far has been a downward trend. Only two years younger than Stepan...

I would have traded Miller and Hayes before Stepan, but for some reason 55 points for a defensively solid 1C who plays all situations is bad these days.

Here's the thing: If Stepan doesn't get 60 points in his career, people will say they were right all along and if he does, they will say it was because of the "change of scenery" which is BS

 

[NYR Viper]

I would have traded Miller and Hayes before Stepan, but for some reason 55 points for a defensively solid 1C who plays all situations is bad these days.

Here's the thing: If Stepan doesn't get 60 points in his career, people will say they were right all along and if he does, they will say it was because of the "change of scenery" which is BS

I don't think he was bad, to the contrary, there was a team willing to give up two grade A prospects for him while giving no $$ back

 

[silverfish]

I would have traded Miller and Hayes before Stepan, but for some reason 55 points for a defensively solid 1C who plays all situations is bad these days.

I have a lot of things to say about the fact that the Rangers traded Stepan. But. It's just gonna make me angry. Most of it's already been said. It's done, so what's the point. Let's just say I really ****ing hope that LA and ADA become impact players in this league.

Both of them. Not just one of them. For the benefit of the Rangers, and my sanity

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'm a Kevin Hayes fan too. It's not like I want him to fail, but I'm being realistic in what I see from him. He's not good defensively, holds onto pucks too long, and needs too much support from his wingers to be an effective C. And this is in a sheltered role. This is why I'm concerned about his promotion to 2C. I can't see things just "clicking" for him where he starts driving play again. I really hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe Ruff lights a fire under his ass. I hope so.

Funny that no one mentions his playoff no shows either, which is another issue that I'll save for later

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I have a lot of things to say about the fact that the Rangers traded Stepan. But. It's just gonna make me angry. Most of it's already been said. It's done, so what's the point. Let's just say I really ****ing hope that LA and ADA become impact players in this league.

Both of them. Not just one of them. For the benefit of the Rangers, and my sanity

I'm with you, man

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I'm a Kevin Hayes fan too. It's not like I want him to fail, but I'm being realistic in what I see from him. He's not good defensively, holds onto pucks too long, and needs too much support from his wingers to be an effective C. And this is in a sheltered role. This is why I'm concerned about his promotion to 2C. I can't see things just "clicking" for him where he starts driving play again. I really hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe Ruff lights a fire under his ass. I hope so.

Funny that no one mentions his playoff no shows either, which is another issue that I'll save for later

Hayes has a couple of big playoff goals for the Rangers, wouldn't call him a complete no show. The problem with Hayes is the glimpses he gives you when he puts it all together are so tantalizing. The second half of his rookie year, early this past season, he was unstoppable. However when Hayes is bad he's really bad. I also feel like he'll push for Stepan money on his next contract.

 

[silverfish]

Hayes has a couple of big playoff goals for the Rangers, wouldn't call him a complete no show. The problem with Hayes is the glimpses he gives you when he puts it all together are so tantalizing. The second half of his rookie year, early this past season, he was unstoppable. However when Hayes is bad he's really bad. I also feel like he'll push for Stepan money on his next contract.

Hayes has two career playoff goals... They were both in 14-15. Were they both 'big'? I don't remember. OT GWG game 4 against pit to go up 3-1. Game tying goal against the Caps in game 7.

Yeah, can't remember a single important goal that Stepan scored in the playoffs, or primary assists... Nope. None of them off the top of my head

I bet Holtby remembers a couple, though.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Yeah, can't remember a single important goal that Stepan scored in the playoffs, or primary assists... Nope. None of them off the top of my head

I bet Holtby remembers a couple, though.

I wasn't implying that Stepan was bad in the playoffs. He was bad this year, but traditionally he's been fine.

 

[silverfish]

I wasn't implying that Stepan was bad in the playoffs. He was bad this year, but traditionally he's been fine.

And Hayes?

 

[NYR Viper]

I have a lot of things to say about the fact that the Rangers traded Stepan. But. It's just gonna make me angry. Most of it's already been said. It's done, so what's the point. Let's just say I really ****ing hope that LA and ADA become impact players in this league.

Both of them. Not just one of them. For the benefit of the Rangers, and my sanity

Even in a year or two it's too early to call this trade. If the Rangers eventually trade Shattenkirk for a return like Stepan, say a top-10 pick + prospect, and considering it was Stepan leaving that opened up that cap space to sign him, is that considered even more of a win?

Then it would be:

Stepan + Raanta for Shattenkirk + ADA + Andersson

Shattenkrik for 1st + Prospect

The trickle down effect of all of this can go a long ways.

Hell look at the Gomez trade, it's still ongoing.

Gomez for McDonagh + Higgins (for all intents and purposes this was the deal) + Gaborik (opened up the $$ to sign him)

Gaborik for Brassard + Moore + Dorsett

Brassard for Zibanejad

Gomez keeps paying off!

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Hayes has two career playoff goals... They were both in 14-15. Were they both 'big'? I don't remember.

Yeah, can't remember a single important goal that Stepan scored in the playoffs, or primary assists... Nope. None of them off the top of my head

I bet Holtby remembers a couple, though.

Hayes had an OT winner against Pitt and tied game 7 against the Caps so Stepan could win it in OT. I'd consider those pretty big. Not a get out of jail free card, but a level better than say Miller.

 

[silverfish]

Even in a year or two it's too early to call this trade. If the Rangers eventually trade Shattenkirk for a return like Stepan, say a top-10 pick + prospect, and considering it was Stepan leaving that opened up that cap space to sign him, is that considered even more of a win?

Then it would be:

Stepan + Raanta for Shattenkirk + ADA + Andersson

Shattenkrik for 1st + Prospect

The trickle down effect of all of this can go a long ways.

Hell look at the Gomez trade, it's still ongoing.

Gomez for McDonagh + Higgins (for all intents and purposes this was the deal) + Gaborik (opened up the $$ to sign him)

Gaborik for Brassard + Moore + Dorsett

Brassard for Zibanejad

Gomez keeps paying off!

Me personally, but I don't judge trades like that. I try not to look at trickle-down effects of trades, either. I judge trades on the day they're made based on current value of all players (which includes expected and potential value in the 'analysis', obviously) involved.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

And Hayes?

As I said, Hayes has a couple of big goals in the playoffs for them. OT winner against Pitt, tied game 7 against the Caps so Stepan could win it. Sure, other than that and a few nice passes he's been crap. Just saying not a complete disaster like many imply.

 

[silverfish]

As I said, Hayes has a couple of big goals in the playoffs for them. OT winner against Pitt, tied game 7 against the Caps so Stepan could win it. Sure, other than that and a few nice passes he's been crap. Just saying not a complete disaster like many imply.

You're putting a lot of weight on two goals from three seasons ago.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

You're putting a lot of weight on two goals from three seasons ago.

All I'm saying is a couple of important goals at the time puts him at one level above playoff dog crap. I also think he has the possibility to improve.

Didn't you also highlight a goal from Stepan from that same playoff run as an important goal to prove Stepan's worth? A goal he never has a chance to score if Hayes doesn't score first....

Again, not putting them on equal level, but Hayes has contributed at times, all be it much less than expected or needed.

 

[Mac n Gs]

All I'm saying is a couple of important goals at the time puts him at one level above playoff dog crap. I also think he has the possibility to improve.

Didn't you also highlight a goal from Stepan from that same playoff run as an important goal to prove Stepan's worth? A goal he never has a chance to score if Hayes doesn't score first....

Again, not putting them on equal level, but Hayes has contributed at times, all be it much less than expected or needed.

I gave Hayes credit for his first year here, and even within those playoffs three years ago he was really up and down. The last two years have been an abomination.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I gave Hayes credit for his first year here, and even within those playoffs three years ago he was really up and down. The last two years have been an abomination.

Yeah, a lot of question marks about Hayes. I thought after he lost the weight and started the season well that he had just suffered a sophomore slump, then the wheels kind of fell off again. Plus Hayes naturally plays a patient game, and when he slumps he slows it down even more until its too slow, which is a disaster in the playoffs.