Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, he can play on the 3rd pair for sure. Did you move to a new country now?
Happy summer!

Yes. Moved to Vienna 3 weeks ago. Got an offer from my employer with a promotion, raise, bonuses, stock rewards and a car. All I had to do was move to Vienna, which is one of the most beautiful cities in the world haha

 

[Player big P]

Hey I'm coming to Vienna in a couple weeks, we can be best friends

 

[Savant]

Not really anymore with the new lottery system.

The only bad strategy is being mediocre.

 

[Ori]

Yes. Moved to Vienna 3 weeks ago. Got an offer from my employer with a promotion, raise, bonuses, stock rewards and a car. All I had to do was move to Vienna, which is one of the most beautiful cities in the world haha

Hehe, nice and good luck - it will probably take some time to get used to a new city.
I`ve never been in Vienna, but I`ve been told it`s great place to visit on a vacation!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hey I'm coming to Vienna in a couple weeks, we can be best friends

I am visiting Prague on the 28th! Let's be BFFs!!!

 

[offdacrossbar]

What 'kids' are ready up front? None. That's the issue.

That's why a deal of Staal for Bjugstad or Staal for Soderberg makes some sense. Re-allocate the bad cap to the forward group who can use a body for a year or two while some of the younger guys marinate and allow another defender playing time where the team has a newly found dearth of talent.

oh but they are.

guys like buch and vesey are ready to take on larger roles. you've got miller, hayes and kreider who are now the vets. and they are still young.

we can move rick nash if the deal is out there. this team can survive without the 8 million dollar albatross- and his 20 goals per year. dont give me we cant move him bc "he's our best pk'er" crap either.

lias andersson if he excels at camp, is your 4C to start the season. give him his 9 games. this kid oozes hockey intuitiveness. and then you have nieves- another kid, as the 1st call up.

there is talent thats ready "up front". we added DD who's a reliable vet but i dont see the need to add any one else at this point.

let the kids play.

 

[NYR Viper]

oh but they are.

guys like buch and vesey are ready to take on larger roles. you've got miller, hayes and kreider who are now the vets. and they are still young.

we can move rick nash if the deal is out there. this team can survive without the 8 million dollar albatross- and his 20 goals per year. dont give me we cant move him bc "he's our best pk'er" crap either.

lias andersson if he excels at camp, is your 4C to start the season. give him his 9 games. this kid oozes hockey intuitiveness. and then you have nieves- another kid, as the 1st call up.

there is talent thats ready "up front". we added DD who's a reliable vet but i dont see the need to add any one else at this point.

let the kids play.

If you move Nash and say Andersson shows he isn't quote ready, what's the plan?

I get the thought process behind letting the kids play. And I like Nieves (although I would prefer for him to start on the wing).


Kreider-Zib-Buch
Miller-Hayes-MZA
Vesey-_______-Grabner
______-Desharnais-Puempel

or

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Vesey-Hayes-MZA
______-Miller-Grabner
______-Desharnais-Puempel

 

[offdacrossbar]

How can you be sick of something that hasn't happened in a while?

And what UFA exactly are you worried about us signing to big money knee jerk deals? Nobody is even out there.

really?

names like jagr and kovalchuck ring a bell ? this place was all over those fossils. joe thornton and even now thomas vanek yikes. and some of the other names as well. scary.

all im saying is stay away from adding a dead end player that will only add cap and clog up a spot for a kid.

young players who have talent and can play ( and we have a few) are the key to being competitive in a cap world. development is key to those kids paying valuable minutes. development doesnt just mean AHL or SEL.

guys like buch and vesey are ready for full time top 9 minutes.

we need a centerman it seems or do we ? lias andersson should get his 9 game look see. jt miller should get a look. boo nieves is ready for the 4C if needed.

its

mika
hayes
DD
and then whom ever wins that spot.

no more new faces. go with what we have for now.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Mika Hayes DD kid may be the worst center depth in the league, so let's hope not.

 

[Irishguy42]

Mika Hayes DD kid may be the worst center depth in the league, so let's hope not.

Nope. Habs would still be worse.

 

[Fugazy]

Nope. Habs would still be worse.

Habs are definitely the worst.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Nope. Habs would still be worse.

Ok so one of the worst then. It's still a huge issue, and one of the big reasons why I wanted to move Hayes over Step

 

[bernmeister]

Yeah, it really sucks to see this team try and win a cup every year.

I believe you took a wrong turn somewhere. This is HF boards, where "winning" is defined as trading away everyone over 22 for draft picks and unproven prospects. I believe the place you are looking for is called "reality" and not often accessible through the internet.

Except what you described is not winning, it is desperation, proven as often wrong and useless, to just continually throw valued resources, compounded when same is overpayment, and they neither win nor retain assets we can inventory and use.

Build. damnit
stop squandering for Clowe, EStaal

recognize that win now is indeed invalid

The questions is it realistic for Skjei to get a $5mx6 type of deal? The answer is simply yes. All of those factors you mention can go against Skjei, but lets remember he didn't play pp until much later in the season. He will only get more 5v5 minutes than he did last year. I'm not sure point production matters that much, if he's a key 5v5 cog playing in the top 4 it's absolutely realistic he gets extended long term at close to $5m. Sure I wish it was 4.5mx6 instead but with inflation it's the a similar deal to McD. McD will also then be one year from being a UFA, we have no idea what the team decides to do there, do they think Skjei can replace him in two seasons with younger D pushing into top6. I can tell you that much, they will not be able to extend Skjei on a long term deal for less than $4m, unless they go the bridge route, and that would be a huge blunder.

Use our cap, and add to by moving Holden, Nash, etc, hopefully Staal also sooner than later.

then max key players for max term to drive down price

I don't want a bridge deal for Skjei. I want an extension that kicks in and relies on Hank's 8m off the books.
Allows us to do possibly as low as 5.5 for max term, 8 yrs

 

[silverfish]

Ok so one of the worst then. It's still a huge issue, and one of the big reasons why I wanted to move Hayes over Step

Definitely would be one of the worst in the league. Even Zib > Hayes > LA > DD would be one of the worst in the league.

If Zibanejad doesn't take the next step, and Hayes doesn't reverse his career trajectory, the Rangers are in trouble at the center position.

 

[offdacrossbar]

If you move Nash and say Andersson shows he isn't quote ready, what's the plan?

I get the thought process behind letting the kids play. And I like Nieves (although I would prefer for him to start on the wing).


Kreider-Zib-MZA
MILLER-Hayes-BUCH
Vesey-ANDERSSON-NASH
GRABNER-Desharnais-FAST/glass

pump on the 4th line is a waste.

nieves is a centerman. he's never going to score much. he's best in the middle as a larger, faster dom moore type.

i do not believe a rick nash deal is there right now. thats a deadline move and a decision management will need to make. right now, he's here so you slot him in to the top 9 primarily as a checking winger who can get you 15-120 perhaps.

lets see what lias anderson has. he's was drafted with the knowledge that he was one of the most NHL ready kids in the entire draft and looked to have the game to make a roster this season.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Mika Hayes DD kid may be the worst center depth in the league, so let's hope not.

thats just blatantly untrue.

and if so, which it isnt, then adding some of the schlubs discussed here makes us only marginally better.

let andersson play and see what he's got.

plenty of time to add another so-so 3C if needed.

 

[bernmeister]

rather than add more FA's on short term deals, we need to move past that "right now" knee jerk thing.

time to let the kids play.

elc's are money right now. good teams have young players who are good. having kids play meaningful minutes on value deals is the way to move forward. its not like we dont have some quality kids.

im sick and tired of paying large $$ for average results.

let em play.

Strong agree.
STICKY THIS^

And if they aren't ready?

Options
- overpay for lesser talent/guys w/issues
blindly doing win now, desperation, reeks of weakness, not acquiring strength to deal from strength, nearly always does not work

- overpay for top talent
Usually requires extensive to massive overpayment
Can help short term, but can't insure Cup.
Lack of picks/prospects/resources = mid long term dry up of talent
attempt to patch this w/FAs usually does not work, and being having FA know how desperate you obviously are further compounds problem.

OR

- do not overpay, go home grown
all guys are a bust
only cost is opportunity cost of draft pick could have been otherwise used

other extreme
all guys are winners = solid depth, surplus to be used for high end from position of strength

likely middle, most guys bust, but enough succeed in varying degrees
BUILDS ENOUGH ASSETS TO ADD TO AND RETAIN SOLID FOUNDATION

BUILD DAMNIT BUILD

Really don't want this team to keep spending assets like throwing in 2nds or 3rds. If they are going to make a trade, then bite the bullet and make a hockey type trade if you have to with one of our wingers or dmen.

I'm still holding out hope that Gorton has a move lined up for next week once bonuses get paid.

Agree

Still waiting to hear Bozak for Holden and Graves/a 2nd/a 3rd

No thanks
Sell Holden, bundle, for max return
See what we have in Graves
keep the picks

No need to move Holden. He is a very solid 5th D-man.

Solid or not we have enough D depth, we need to move Staal, Holden and I am waiting for top dollar return on McD

Skjei - ****
Smith - DeAng
Graves - Beargloves

Pionk first RD callup is 7D
allows beargloves to slide to LD if nec

 

[silverfish]

thats just blatantly untrue.

and if so, which it isnt, then adding some of the schlubs discussed here makes us only marginally better.

let andersson play and see what he's got.

plenty of time to add another so-so 3C if needed.

We don't need another 'so-so 3C'. We need a top-6 center to bump Hayes to 3C.

Team is taking a risk this year. I don't necessarily hate that they're seeing what they have with Zibanejad and Hayes as a 1-2 punch, but I'm pessimistic that it'll work.

 

[RangerBoy]

Gorton wants to trade Brassard to Ottawa for Zibanejad and trade Stepan and Raanta for Andersson and DeAngelo. The Rangers get much younger and more upside. He needs to make a few more deals like that. The Rangers get younger and cheaper which is Stepan deal. Money will be an issue for the team. They need as many entry level contracts as possible. Rebuild on the fly. AV said retool on the fly. The Rangers don't have much money for a retool. Shattenkirk signed on the Rangers terms. Elliotte Friedman said back in the winter about the Rangers and Shattenkirk needing to compromise. The Rangers got Shattenkirk on their terms. Brooks wrote the Rangers would do a shorter term than 7 years. 5 years/$30M. The Rangers got him for 4 years. $650,000 more per. The contract allows the Rangers to trade Shattenkirk after the first season. I am not a Shattenkirk guy but I would have given him that contract. The Rangers can trade him. Ten team no trade list in years 2 & 3. Eight teams in the 4th year. Team favorable terms. Nash has a list on 12 teams he can be traded to without his permission. He can put down all of the Rangers rivals knowing the Rangers are not trading with those teams or the budget teams. $8.2M salary. Good luck. Edmonton offered RNH to the Blues for a signed Shattenkirk. Tampa offered Drouin for a signed Shattenkirk. Re-sign Zibanejad. I watching the NHL Network and they were discussing the Rangers. Mike Johnson thinks Zibanejad has the ability to become a 30 goal and 70 point center if Mika can stay healthy. The hearing is next Tuesday July 25. Soon.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Definitely would be one of the worst in the league. Even Zib > Hayes > LA > DD would be one of the worst in the league.

If Zibanejad doesn't take the next step, and Hayes doesn't reverse his career trajectory, the Rangers are in trouble at the center position.

you are, like usual, taking the worst case scenario here.

mika looks to be a legit 1/2C and had assumed that role over the older, slower derek stepan. if he's healthy all season, he's projected to be at 22/40 for 62 points. this kid has the most upside of any of our C's including stepan. they made a decision to go with him and that was the right call. he's capable of big time mins and production.

hayes had 50 points last season, no reason to expect he won't be atleast as good or better and thats 2C territory. no reason hayes cant match what stepan did last year in production. again, hayes has a higher offensive ceiling than did stepan. this team believes in him.

step 55 points 17 goals

hayes 49 points 17 goals

add DD and lias andersson and we are far from worst in the league.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

thats just blatantly untrue.

and if so, which it isnt, then adding some of the schlubs discussed here makes us only marginally better.

let andersson play and see what he's got.

plenty of time to add another so-so 3C if needed.

Who is worse? It is unndisputably bottom 10. Maybe bottom 5.

 

[offdacrossbar]

We don't need another 'so-so 3C'. We need a top-6 center to bump Hayes to 3C.

Team is taking a risk this year. I don't necessarily hate that they're seeing what they have with Zibanejad and Hayes as a 1-2 punch, but I'm pessimistic that it'll work.

much better defense.

solid group of forwards again.

lias andersson and DD may well work out but if not, theres time to improve the middle of the ice.

lets see what these kids have

vesey
buch
skjei
ADA
andersson
nieves
bereglazov
pionk

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Definitely would be one of the worst in the league. Even Zib > Hayes > LA > DD would be one of the worst in the league.

If Zibanejad doesn't take the next step, and Hayes doesn't reverse his career trajectory, the Rangers are in trouble at the center position.

A lot of things have to happen for the Rangers to have a center-core that is at least equal to last season.

1. Zibanejad has to grow into a 1C (Which he isn't right now, I don't care what anyone says. Zibanejad is not better than or equal to Stepan)
2. Hayes has to up his game to become a solid 2C
3. Desharnais has to be able to play solid hockey on the 3rd line
4. Andersson has to show he is ready to play in the NHL, even in a marginal role

That's a lot of factors to just assume we will be fine at center

 

[silverfish]

A lot of things have to happen for the Rangers to have a center-core that is at least equal to last season.

1. Zibanejad has to grow into a 1C (Which he isn't right now, I don't care what anyone says. Zibanejad is not better than or equal to Stepan)
2. Hayes has to up his game to become a solid 2C
3. Desharnais has to be able to play solid hockey on the 3rd line
4. Andersson has to show he is ready to play in the NHL, even in a marginal role

That's a lot of factors to just assume we will be fine at center

Yeah but apparently if you don't believe that all four of these things will happen, you're only looking at the 'worst case scenario'

Hayes put up points last year, sure, but otherwise he was pure trash. Arguably his worst season in the league. His entire career thus far has been a downward trend. Only two years younger than Stepan...

 

[Mac n Gs]

you are, like usual, taking the worst case scenario here.

mika looks to be a legit 1/2C and had assumed that role over the older, slower derek stepan. if he's healthy all season, he's projected to be at 22/40 for 62 points. this kid has the most upside of any of our C's including stepan. they made a decision to go with him and that was the right call. he's capable of big time mins and production.

hayes had 50 points last season, no reason to expect he won't be atleast as good or better and thats 2C territory. no reason hayes cant match what stepan did last year in production. again, hayes has a higher offensive ceiling than did stepan. this team believes in him.

step 55 points 17 goals

hayes 49 points 17 goals

add DD and lias andersson and we are far from worst in the league.

You do realize they put up those numbers in more sheltered roles BECAUSE we had Stepan right? When Kevin Hayes actually shows us he can handle top-6 minutes then maybe I'll be a bit less concerned. Mika I'm good with right now, and I think he'll be fine.

I think DD sucks, so I'm not expecting anything from him, and Boo had a bunch of injuries last season. If he's healthy, then maybe he'll be a 4C. Maybe. I'm a huge Lias Andersson fan, but don't see the point of forcing him into a 4C role. Let him get a lot of ice time in Sweden and further develop his game. You gotta think long-term here with him since we made such a big investment.

Also, the Rangers got Shattenkirk on his terms. He literally came to the Rangers with that offer.