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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

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Lundsanity30 said:
If the Rangers had Stepan still and say he gets hurt, then Zibanejad steps in as the 1C for the time being.. now that Stepan is gone, not only is Hayes the #2, if Zibanejad gets hurt again Hayes becomes your ONE, and then not only that, either you have to make Miller your 2 making the wings worse or Desharnias is your 2.

I don't know how anyone can argue the Rangers center depth is not a huge massive hole. its pretty clearly the worst in the metro.
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Their center depth isnt great. Thats for sure. And 1 injury to the existing centers makes it devastatingly bad. With that said, i think it can be hidden with either Lias making the team, or moving Miller to Center, whom i actually like on Center, but thats just me....or even both.
 
silverfish said:
If Hayes and Zib don't take those steps, and you still have Stepan here, you can recognize it and correct the problem in the off-season.

If Hayes and Zib don't take those steps, and Stepan isn't here, you're ****ed, because you need them to step up.

Zibanejad is already a proven '2C'. Hayes is already a proven '3C'. Stepan still here has them slotted in those positions. Stepan not here has them playing a position above their heads. I'm not sure how what I'm saying isn't obvious... And the fact that odc disagrees with me only makes me think my opinion is stronger.
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lol keep at it.

i happen to believe that had step still been here, he was the 2C this year and not by much over hayes.

if hayes and zib dont take those steps- um... mika did in fact take that step even with being injured, and hayes had 6 points less than did stepan, and you still have stepan here, then you have a guy who is probably not able to make the team much better on his own and potentially looking at 4 more years of him at 6.5 and the potential for him to become ryan callahan.

the organization must have felt strongly enough about that next 4 years of a declining derek to move him for the 7th and ADA.

in listening to JG and AV now, they seem more confident in mika and hayes than you do. certainly, they must be wrong ?
 
Inferno said:
Moving stepan opened up the space to sign Shattenkirk. Id say fixng the 1RHD was more important than fixing the 1C.

The difference from bumping everyone up on the RHD spot versus bumping everyone up on the Center spot is GINORMOUS.
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They had the cap space for Shattenkirk even with Stepan still here, perhaps not spending 4M on a defensive defenseman like Smith would have went a long way?..again, this was more about thinking he's going to decline and maybe the future assets rather than cap space to sign Shattenkirk.
 
Inferno said:
Their center depth isnt great. Thats for sure. And 1 injury to the existing centers makes it devastatingly bad. With that said, i think it can be hidden with either Lias making the team, or moving Miller to Center, whom i actually like on Center, but thats just me....or even both.
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It's not great is an understatement. You're RELYING on Kevin hayes to be your #2 (and #1) if Zibanejad gets hurt, yeah its not great lol.
 
offdacrossbar said:
lol keep at it.

i happen to believe that had step still been here, he was the 2C this year and not by much over hayes.

if hayes and zib dont take those steps- um... mika did in fact take that step even with being injured, and hayes had 6 points less than did stepan, and you still have stepan here, then you have a guy who is probably not able to make the team much better on his own and potentially looking at 4 more years of him at 6.5 and the potential for him to become ryan callahan.

the organization must have felt strongly enough about that next 4 years of a declining derek to move him for the 7th and ADA.

in listening to JG and AV now, they seem more confident in mika and hayes than you do. certainly, they must be wrong ?
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Hayes had 50 points playing as the 3rd line center against weaker competition.. Stepan always played against teams #1 or at worse #2 centers and top D pairs, there is zero guarantee that Hayes can do that.
 
Inferno said:
imho there is no scenario in which trading Rick Nash makes this team better for this year. The future? Sure. But this year? Absolutely not. And for a team thats clearly "going for it"...trading Nash makes zero sense.
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i actually agree with that statement at this point.

hes got spot here but i would still keep him on the 3rd line and let him do who he does best... "check and play defense". :laugh:

tough decision to make come spring. move him or lose him.

cap space either way but do we keep him for a playoff run (where he will score 3 goals perhaps) or move him in the spring for some return.

i cannot see us moving him and then saying we are going for it. we would need to be out of it or not serious contenders.
 
Lundsanity30 said:
They had the cap space for Shattenkirk even with Stepan still here, perhaps not spending 4M on a defensive defenseman like Smith would have went a long way?..again, this was more about thinking he's going to decline and maybe the future assets rather than cap space to sign Shattenkirk.
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its true..keeping stepan over smith was a possibility.

personally...id rather have Smith, Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, and Lias Andersson

Than just Stepan and Shattenkirk.

But that's just me.
 
I would keep Holden around as the 7th d. Knowing AV, I can't see him playing 2 inexperienced guys(Bear Gloves/Tony D) on the bottom pair. I think out of the 3 young guys DeAngelo has the inside track to make the team. He has half a season of NHL experience, and fills 2 areas of need: right handed, offensive style. IMO it's his position to lose to Pionk and Bear Gloves.
 
Lundsanity30 said:
Hayes had 50 points playing as the 3rd line center against weaker competition.. Stepan always played against teams #1 or at worse #2 centers and top D pairs, there is zero guarantee that Hayes can do that.
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Also got 2 mins less per game though. I'm pretty sure he's gonna get 50ish points regardless. He'll play tougher minutes but get more minutes and it'll cancel out. The concern is whether or not the other team gets a billion shots while hes on the ice and if they can get out of their zone.

I think his defensive deficiencies are overstated anyway. Everyone is overly concerned with the most recent year. This hasn't exactly been a trend. In his 3 seasons he has a CF%Rel of 2.3, 1.2, and then -5.1. It's not like he's been consistently poor. It's one year.
 
What team is better...

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Zucc-Zibanejad-Miller
Vesey-Hayes-Buchnevich
Grabner-Nieves-Fast

Mcdonagh-Shattenkirk, Skjei, Holden and 2 of Bereglazov, Pionk, etc.

or a great defense, but very putrid center depth.. as much as the D needed to be fixed, doing it at the expense of center depth seems really really confusing.
 
i guess the question is...would you trade Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta for.

Brendan Smith, Anthony DeAngelo, Lias Andersson, and Ondrej Pavelec...and about 2.5 million dollars in cap space.

I probably would.
 
Inferno said:
its true..keeping stepan over smith was a possibility.

personally...id rather have Smith, Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, and Lias Andersson

Than just Stepan and Shattenkirk.

But that's just me.
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If you're not talking about just this season I agree with you.. it was a good move for the future, but it does not help them this year.
 
offdacrossbar said:
lol keep at it.

i happen to believe that had step still been here, he was the 2C this year and not by much over hayes.

if hayes and zib dont take those steps- um... mika did in fact take that step even with being injured, and hayes had 6 points less than did stepan, and you still have stepan here, then you have a guy who is probably not able to make the team much better on his own and potentially looking at 4 more years of him at 6.5 and the potential for him to become ryan callahan.

the organization must have felt strongly enough about that next 4 years of a declining derek to move him for the 7th and ADA.

in listening to JG and AV now, they seem more confident in mika and hayes than you do. certainly, they must be wrong ?
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Keep at what?

I'm think that Zibanejad can take over Stepan's duties. I'm not confident that Hayes can take over Zibanejad's duties, and I have zero confidence that DD or LA can bring to the 3C position on the depth-chart what Hayes did.

You take Stepan out, everyone jumps up a step, whether or not they're ready or capable of doing so. You seem to think that they are, I don't share your confidence.

It's okay for people to have differing opinions.

You love mentioning how Stepan's game was going to start slipping, yet we have two straight years of Kevin Hayes getting worse at hockey, troublingly worse, and you completely ignore it. We have no such data on Stepan.
 
Crosby is gunna be 30. Might be time for Pens to cut bait. 8.7 mill. 8 years. Could become albatross. Pens traded Staal. Jim Rutherford. Malkin. Letang. Top heavy. Kessle . Stale.
 
Lundsanity30 said:
What team is better...

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Zucc-Zibanejad-Miller
Vesey-Hayes-Buchnevich
Grabner-Nieves-Fast

Mcdonagh-Shattenkirk, Skjei, Holden and 2 of Bereglazov, Pionk, etc.

or a great defense, but very putrid center depth.. as much as the D needed to be fixed, doing it at the expense of center depth seems really really confusing.
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not having Derek Stepan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nick Holden or Marc Staal getting 2nd pair minutes
 
Hayes has also spent 25% of his career ice time with Girardi. With Girardi he's got a 43.2 CF% and without 49.5. An absolutely huge difference. He won't have to deal with that this year.

In particular this past year Hayes with Girardi was a solid 37.6 lol
 
Hire Sather said:
Crosby is gunna be 30. Might be time for Pens to cut bait. 8.7 mill. 8 years. Could become albatross. Pens traded Staal. Jim Rutherford. Malkin. Letang. Top heavy. Kessle . Stale.
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You forgot to mention some absurdly obscure link between him and another team such as his younger brothers high school coach is currently a european scout for team X
 
SA16 said:
Hayes has also spent 25% of his career ice time with Girardi. With Girardi he's got a 43.2 CF% and without 49.5. An absolutely huge difference. He won't have to deal with that this year.

In particular this past year Hayes with Girardi was a solid 37.6 lol
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I'm fine with the trade if the Rangers are "rebuilding on the fly"

my point is, the Rangers are not "going for it" by trading their top center, regardless of it allowing them to fix the defense. that's all.

Over the LONG RUN, its a trade you make, Rangers needed more young players and got 2 extra ones, for THIS YEAR it makes the Rangers marginally worse. unless they can acquire another center.
 
silverfish said:
Keep at what?

I'm think that Zibanejad can take over Stepan's duties. I'm not confident that Hayes can take over Zibanejad's duties, and I have zero confidence that DD or LA can bring to the 3C position on the depth-chart what Hayes did.

You take Stepan out, everyone jumps up a step, whether or not they're ready or capable of doing so. You seem to think that they are, I don't share your confidence.

It's okay for people to have differing opinions.

You love mentioning how Stepan's game was going to start slipping, yet we have two straight years of Kevin Hayes getting worse at hockey, troublingly worse, and you completely ignore it. We have no such data on Stepan.
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step looked awful end of last year- i mean really bad and im afraid the organization felt strongly that this was not aberration. this was a definable trend. that contract for 4 more years was too much when adding his slipping play. i agree with their conclusion and trade/return.

kevin hayes has room to grow and his offensive ceiling is, at worst, equal to that of step. . stepan was trending downward.

i agree that hayes didn't have a great 2nd half of last season, but neither did stepan for that matter.

i guess it came down to age, contract and potential upside rather than defensive play and safe production.

hayes won.

oh and hair. :laugh:
 
SA16 said:
Hayes has also spent 25% of his career ice time with Girardi. With Girardi he's got a 43.2 CF% and without 49.5. An absolutely huge difference. He won't have to deal with that this year.

In particular this past year Hayes with Girardi was a solid 37.6 lol
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holy **** I didn't realize his corsi was that low with Girardi...

If that's the case then Hayes may very well be in line for a 50+ point season with decent possession numbers. I'd have to check the stats for the 14-15 season, because I don't know what defensive pairing he was usually on the ice with
 
silverfish said:
Keep at what?

I'm think that Zibanejad can take over Stepan's duties. I'm not confident that Hayes can take over Zibanejad's duties, and I have zero confidence that DD or LA can bring to the 3C position on the depth-chart what Hayes did.

You take Stepan out, everyone jumps up a step, whether or not they're ready or capable of doing so. You seem to think that they are, I don't share your confidence.

It's okay for people to have differing opinions.

You love mentioning how Stepan's game was going to start slipping, yet we have two straight years of Kevin Hayes getting worse at hockey, troublingly worse, and you completely ignore it. We have no such data on Stepan.
Click to expand...

I honestly wonder how much of Stepan's "decline" is coupled with his worst shooting% season of his career. It's becoming a meme at this point
 
It's not just Zibanejad and hayes getting to 50 points, they can probably do that. Its that all 3 of the Rangers centers (whether it be Miller or DD) are all offensive minded, they have absolutely not one center who you can expect can shut down the other teams top center or PK, that's not good.
 
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