Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[McRanger92]

I’d rather the mystery box over a boat I know has holes. If I get enough mystery boxes eventually there will be a boat in one of them… without holes.

Where are the holes on this roster? What do Colorado and Tampa have that we don’t talent-wise? Colorado couldn’t get out of the second round forever until this year. Tampa was known as a bunch of chokers until the covid bubble. In sports you’re never good enough, until one day you are. We are a legitimate Cup contender make no mistake and will be for years to come. Now it’s up to injury luck and playoff randomness. You should try to enjoy it instead of worrying about getting more “young high end centers”. Zibanejad-Trocheck-Chytil-Goodrow are all better than anyone you could reasonably acquire now anyway

 

[McRanger92]

i expect Tampa to be a contender again but I don’t see where the Lightning improved in the off season. They basically replaced Palat and McDonagh with Namestnikov and Cole.…and in the next few years as more of their core age out probably starting with Stamkos and Killorn the Rangers younger players will move into their primes. Tampa does not have the quality younger players that we do.

It’s not to say that guys like Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Sergachev, Cirelli and Vasilevskiy don’t have a bunch of good years ahead of them but that’s a group that pretty much is in the same bracket with Mika, Panarin, Kreider, Trouba and Trocheck. We can match them way better than they’ll be able to match our under 25’s now.

Nils pretty much proved nothing last year. He did not have a good year either with the Rangers or the Pack. I expect he’ll be better but IMO camp or no camp he became one of our most movable assets once Schneider beat him out.

This team is no longer in a retool/rebuild stage. Even so we still have a strong development process going on and many young players who I expect to be future Rangers. Both of these things can be true at the same time and organizationally it’s the best scenario that a team can have.

This past year for Tampa felt like a last kick at the can. They are still the class of the east until proven otherwise, but they’ve lost some critical veterans and as you said the rental prices they’ve paid over the years are finally coming back to bite them. I don’t expect the wheels to come off or anything, but I definitely would like another crack at them this spring

 

[RangersFan1994]

Im really intrigued by Robertson. I wonder if he finally gets some NHL games this season. He is underrated here. Same with Skinner. I dont see why he also cant be given a look. Lot of options here with upside, some more than others but some quality depth.

 

[RGY]

We all want to win, me more than anyone.

It’s about whether the team is capable of winning a Cup or Cups (I wouldn’t bet on it) versus if they can increase their odds by not needing to win so much (yet still not win a Cup) this year or last year or next year, etc.

The owner harming a future capable of winning Cups for a present incapable of winning a Cup is a bad thing, yes. Could care less what everyone else thinks.



Untrue. We will never become Buffalo, NJ, Arizona, etc. Franchise culture and resources play a huge part in it and we are the Rangers. We are never going to be the Coyotes.

Might we become Detroit? Heaven forfend, I’d hate to win 4 Cups followed by a half decade of incompetence.

It’s not a fairy tale. It’s just hard. I want to be like Colorado or Tampa; but I don’t think we have the forward talent to match them. Not this year. Maybe if Kakko and Lafreniere and Kravtsov all turn into studs, but if we are talking about 3 years from now then Zibanejad, Kreider and Panarin have all declined.



They cut it off too short. They needed more of a commitment to young high end forwards.


Yeah, if we had a 23 year old who just put up a year far better than Kreider ever did before this season, and a first round pick that was probably a center, instead of Kreider? And Kupari and another first round pick instead of Blais? Yeah, that would be better. If we had hit on those picks we would be basically done, yes.

There is a lot to be excited about, that’s the shame of it. It was a rebuild that wasn’t finished and now we have this amalgam of a team that doesn’t know what it’s trying to be. The on ice product at 5v5 was not good last year, is that fixed? Are they a juggernaut like Colorado or Tampa? I don’t think so. And if they aren’t, they probably aren’t winning a Cup because the Colorados and Tampas win about 90% of them and I just don’t think we are on that level.



We don’t have a logjam, especially at center.

Which is why it’s so embarrassing how Drury did mishandle the Kravtsov situation last year. Not sure why that’s hard to follow unless you are too distracted from all the Pom Pom waiving.


You mean you don’t want to hear it.

Sorry.

Not going to be shouted down by faux incredulity.

You have all the answers. Who were the elite centers they should have continued to “tank” for? Because we know that plan would have worked perfectly. Who were they? We need to know who they missed out on over the last 3 years. I mean they have Zibanejad as is. And they have Chytil. They really only had the 2C spot open. Who were the elite centers they should have cleared out the roster for and attempted to tank for? Oh I know, the Rangers should have traded XYZ prospect/player for XYZ prospect center. Yep, got it.

This constant whining by you is really what is so embarrassing. I don’t know why you reference Kravtsov, he isn’t a center. No one is pom pom waving, we just aren’t all here being miserable pricks as if the sky is falling because we didn’t execute this master plan you seem to think exists as the ONLY way of doing things.

You haven’t answered how Lundkvist has been mishandled so horribly. You just keep crying about Drury and the org. No one is shouting at you. Everyone is just tired of your negativity and are pushing back. Just don’t watch the team if things are so bad and you hate how this team has been put together. Go be a Bolts or Avs fan, the teams you envy so much.

 

[haohmaru]

You have all the answers. Who were the elite centers they should have continued to “tank” for? Because we know that plan would have worked perfectly. Who were they? We need to know who they missed out on over the last 3 years. I mean they have Zibanejad as is. And they have Chytil. They really only had the 2C spot open. Who were the elite centers they should have cleared out the roster for and attempted to tank for? Oh I know, the Rangers should have traded XYZ prospect/player for XYZ prospect center. Yep, got it.

This constant whining by you is really what is so embarrassing. I don’t know why you reference Kravtsov, he isn’t a center. No one is pom pom waiving, we just aren’t all here being miserable pricks as if the sky is falling because we didn’t execute this master plan you seem to think exists as the ONLY way of doing things.

You haven’t answered how Lundkvist has been mishandled so horribly. You just keep crying about Drury and the org. No one is shouting at you. Everyone is just tired of your negativity and are pushing back. Just don’t watch the team if things are so bad and you hate how this team has been put together. Go be a Bolts or Avs fan, the teams you envy so much.

It's all of the what ifs that drive me crazy. Last season, Lundkvist was, supposedly, untouchable unless we got back a young cost controlled center that had 2nd and possibly 1st line potential. Everybody says that's not going to happen and, lo and behold, the rest of the league thinks he's worth a 2nd round pick.

Same with Robertson. The crux of every Kreider argument that I see from him is that this supposed trade didn't happen because one vetted person posted it in the trade rumor thread. Nowhere else. Besides that, we don't know the specifics of the supposed deal, what the pieces were, and maybe it was Dallas who took a step back and said "Woah, wtf are we thinking?".

Cost controlled talented young centers are the most sought after piece of every organization in the league and every team f***ing knows it. This isn't some secret known only to HFNYR and it certainly isn't lost on Drury. The idea that he hasn't been stoking those fires is absolute horse shit.

A "dynasty" built on speculation and wishes is exactly what it sounds like. Pure fantasy.

 

[mas0764]

You have all the answers. Who were the elite centers they should have continued to “tank” for? Because we know that plan would have worked perfectly. Who were they? We need to know who they missed out on over the last 3 years. I mean they have Zibanejad as is. And they have Chytil. They really only had the 2C spot open. Who were the elite centers they should have cleared out the roster for and attempted to tank for? Oh I know, the Rangers should have traded XYZ prospect/player for XYZ prospect center. Yep, got it.

This constant whining by you is really what is so embarrassing. I don’t know why you reference Kravtsov, he isn’t a center. No one is pom pom waiving, we just aren’t all here being miserable pricks as if the sky is falling because we didn’t execute this master plan you seem to think exists as the ONLY way of doing things.

You haven’t answered how Lundkvist has been mishandled so horribly. You just keep crying about Drury and the org. No one is shouting at you. Everyone is just tired of your negativity and are pushing back. Just don’t watch the team if things are so bad and you hate how this team has been put together. Go be a Bolts or Avs fan, the teams you envy so much.

I don’t intend to answer anything further from you because unlike @McRanger92 you aren’t interested in having a conversation, you are only interested in condescension.

If you think it’s so “embarrassing” then keep scrolling. Unfortunately for you I actually care about the Rangers, probably more than you do, so I’m not going to “go be a Bolts fan,” but instead will continue to be here advocating what the Rangers should do to win multiple Cups.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't think a lot of people appreciate how good of a player Mika actually is. It goes beyond his production stats. For the last few years...even the year he was battling with Covid he's been flat out our best forward. It's because much like Bergeron in Boston he does so many things on the ice for our team really really well. The younger centers in the league making real noise these days have still got to get beyond their production stats to be at the level Mika is now.

 

[mas0764]

Where are the holes on this roster? What do Colorado and Tampa have that we don’t talent-wise?

I have cited the Athletic’s fine work on what your average Cup winner looks like many, many times and to date we have fallen far short, either because our prime players aren’t good enough or our young players haven’t developed to their peaks yet (ie, in combination).

I would like to see the numbers again for the roster as it projects this season but I suspect it’s still pretty short even with favorable projections for guys like Kakko and Lafreniere, unless they were to literally explode into 70-90 point players.

Colorado couldn’t get out of the second round forever until this year. Tampa was known as a bunch of chokers until the covid bubble. In sports you’re never good enough, until one day you are. We are a legitimate Cup contender make no mistake and will be for years to come. Now it’s up to injury luck and playoff randomness.

Yeah, but it’s rarely up to “playoff randomness.” That’s why like 5 teams have won like 80% of the Cups the past decade and a half. Sure, we could aspire to be the Blues. We probably are that good and if we got super hot at the right time as they did for half a season, we could theoretically win a Cup. But the team with the Sidney Crosbys the Patrick Kanes, and the Steven Stamkoses, they seem to win repeatedly.

Oh, and I do enjoy the ride. I went to two games with my son last year and paid a lot of money to do so. But I’m also not going to sit here and shut my mouth when they are making the wrong moves.

 

[mas0764]

Cost controlled talented young centers are the most sought after piece of every organization in the league and every team f***ing knows it. This isn't some secret known only to HFNYR and it certainly isn't lost on Drury. The idea that he hasn't been stoking those fires is absolute horse shit.

There is a zero percent chance that Blais and a second was the best offer for Buchnevich.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Don't call anyone a "groomer." It's flaming and you have no reason to even use the word.

I just made that a rule. This was your warning.

You can add the 3 other moronic words/phrases he uses as well.

 

[Flan the incredible]

Thanks for your awesome advice. I’ll do what I f***ing please.

I love the “if you don’t cheer blindly for the real you must not be a fan” bit.

Yea and I laugh at you "fans" who just bitch and moan constantly how bad a team is when they were 2 wins from the Stanley cup finals. You must be pretty miserable in life to constantly hold that attitude. Pretty sad actually. I pity you.

 

[RGY]

I don’t intend to answer anything further from you because unlike @McRanger92 you aren’t interested in having a conversation, you are only interested in condescension.

If you think it’s so “embarrassing” then keep scrolling. Unfortunately for you I actually care about the Rangers, probably more than you do, so I’m not going to “go be a Bolts fan,” but instead will continue to be here advocating what the Rangers should do to win multiple Cups.

Lmfao this is yet another BS post from you. Condescending? I am legitimately asking you who the centers were that the Rangers could have and should have REALISTICALLY targeted. What the master plan is that you and you alone know. How Lundkvist should have been handled differently. You can’t come up with anything. All you want to do is cry foul and then claim you “care more about the Rangers” than I do because myself, and many others for that matter, refuse to subscribe to your world is ending takes about this franchise. You think you have it all figured it out. You are an “advocate” for cups. L.O.L. You know better than an NHL GM. It is flat out laughable. I could keep scrolling but like others here we are calling you out on your nonsense. All you are is negative because the team hasn’t been constructed exactly as you have wished. You arguments and complaints would have more weight if this team wasn’t just coming off an ECF visit with multiple 1st round picks in the lineup. And based on your mindset you absolutely did not live through the trials and tribulations of the early 2000s. Because if you did you would have a much different perspective on things. You have been spoiled by your fandom really taking shape in the 2010s in which all you have known is competitive rosters.


But you’re right we don’t need to engage anymore. Enjoy the season, or in your case don’t since you think this team is being run so terribly wrong.

 

[Ola]

Alarming

First reaction, it got to be more than 1/3?

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I have cited the Athletic’s fine work on what your average Cup winner looks like many, many times and to date we have fallen far short, either because our prime players aren’t good enough or our young players haven’t developed to their peaks yet (ie, in combination).

I would like to see the numbers again for the roster as it projects this season but I suspect it’s still pretty short even with favorable projections for guys like Kakko and Lafreniere, unless they were to literally explode into 70-90 point players.




Yeah, but it’s rarely up to “playoff randomness.” That’s why like 5 teams have won like 80% of the Cups the past decade and a half. Sure, we could aspire to be the Blues. We probably are that good and if we got super hot at the right time as they did for half a season, we could theoretically win a Cup. But the team with the Sidney Crosbys the Patrick Kanes, and the Steven Stamkoses, they seem to win repeatedly.

Oh, and I do enjoy the ride. I went to two games with my son last year and paid a lot of money to do so. But I’m also not going to sit here and shut my mouth when they are making the wrong moves.

I’m reading through this conversation and you aren’t necessarily incorrect. You have valid gripes. The issue with your perspective is it’s not realistic. The Rangers have a unique ability to attract established talent. Maybe 25% of the league can match it. When that’s the case, part of any rebuild would be to acquire that talent. Otherwise, they’re just refusing to get better. For example, i mentioned this in a previous post, Fox, Trouba, Panarin, we’re all great deals. You can’t just ignore them because you want to tank for better players.

The concern I have isn’t that the team didn’t acquire enough talent. There are very few teams in the league who can match the Rangers “talent.“

Zibanejad - elite #1C, at worst second tier
Panarin - top 5 wing
Kreider - 1st line W and PP specialist
Trocheck - High end-mid range 2C
Fox - Norris-winner
Shesterkin - Vezina-winner
Trouba - big physical 2-3D

Then you look at Lafreniere (1st overall) Kakko (2nd overall) Kravtsov (9th overall) Chytil (21st overall) filling out the top 9.

What more did you want? The Rangers have iced the youngest team for a few years. They continue to attract talent. You don’t turn it away.

Yes, I wanted more for Buchnevich, yes, I probably would have traded Kreider. But we can be wrong, too. Kreider contract currently looks like it’ll be a steal. And that veteran continuity did more than just block the kids. It helped them learn how to win games, the talent around him helped Kreider go his game to one that looks like it’ll last a few more years.

There really isn’t that much to be upset about. The Rangers will be in playoff contention and have a chance to win the cup in the next ~5 years. You just hope that they can keep backfilling and add the right pieces to win a cup(s).

I think the bigger concern isn’t the acquisition of talent, it’s the handling of it post-acquisition. That’s the part that I gripe with most

 

[Ola]

On Panarin, I said this two season ago, we should enjoy his play at that level because it doesn’t last forever.

For sure, Panarin has been held back a bit for whatever reasons. Injuries. Personal issues. But we shouldn’t have too high expectations on him. I can see how we now set the bar at 127 pts and think that he is mailing it in every year he doesn’t repeat that. We signed Panarin to a high UFA contract, not McDavid in his prime.

 

[TominNC]

It’s easy to line up behind whatever the team does too.

Yeah, winning sucks

Surrrrrrre

Feel free to follow your conspiray theories.

 

[pld459666]

We have been down this road many times. I maintain the belief that this team is not likely to win a Cup with the Kreider/Trouba/Zibanejad/Panarin core as their big pieces.

I don’t see them matching up to the Colorados and Tampas of the world. I don’t believe they have enough dynamic center talent or young forward talent in general. I think they knowingly sold out chances to get more young studs because they were in far too much of a hurry to get back to being a second round playoff team. I think they have locked themselves into a team that will be almost guaranteed to both always win one playoff round but never win the last game of the Cup finals either, and I think it is very much linked to stubbornness, impatience, greed, and shortsightedness from the owner and the GM.

If I believed this team was a favorite to win a couple Cups the next decade I’d be fine with where they are. But I don’t believe that.

And it’s complete nonsense that “I’m being unrealistic.” It’s not unrealistic for Tampa or Colorado to create powerhouses. The only people who say it’s unrealistic are the ones who don’t have the patience to see it through.


We should have done everything in our power to get 1-2 more high end young centers in here even if it cost us an overpaid second pair defender or second line winger. That’s still being closer to competitive than tanking.

I'm almost in agreement with this.

What makes me more optimistic than you is tjat I don't think we are done seeing growth and development from the young players we have on the team.

I see and expect continued growth from (in no particular order):

Kravtsov
Miller
Schneider
Jones
Lafreniere
Kakko
Chytil
Blais

Not to mention what is still in the pipeline.

We need more from Panarin in the playoffs, but I believe we can win a cup or two with the vets we have so long as the above continue to get better.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’d rather the mystery box over a boat I know has holes. If I get enough mystery boxes eventually there will be a boat in one of them… without holes.

If you had your way, we would have run a bike (Nils) out there on the ocean expecting it to float because it was able to get you across land (aka the SHL)

 

[Roo Returns]

First reaction, it got to be more than 1/3?

As someone who has studied a little statistics, basically anyone can take any stat and make it look pretty in the right context (hello major news networks and politicians).

How many of the picks since 2017 have been from Europe? Not answered,
How many of the picks reconciled with the club? Not answered.
Did this happen in any draft after 2018? Nope.

 

[Circus86]

We have been down this road many times. I maintain the belief that this team is not likely to win a Cup with the Kreider/Trouba/Zibanejad/Panarin core as their big pieces.

I don’t see them matching up to the Colorados and Tampas of the world. I don’t believe they have enough dynamic center talent or young forward talent in general. I think they knowingly sold out chances to get more young studs because they were in far too much of a hurry to get back to being a second round playoff team. I think they have locked themselves into a team that will be almost guaranteed to both always win one playoff round but never win the last game of the Cup finals either, and I think it is very much linked to stubbornness, impatience, greed, and shortsightedness from the owner and the GM.

If I believed this team was a favorite to win a couple Cups the next decade I’d be fine with where they are. But I don’t believe that.

And it’s complete nonsense that “I’m being unrealistic.” It’s not unrealistic for Tampa or Colorado to create powerhouses. The only people who say it’s unrealistic are the ones who don’t have the patience to see it through.


We should have done everything in our power to get 1-2 more high end young centers in here even if it cost us an overpaid second pair defender or second line winger. That’s still being closer to competitive than tanking.

I think it all depends on the kids. If Laf and Kakko break out anything is possible. We also need strong performances from the other younglings Kravtsov, Chytil etc.

Our core is excellent. We have much better pieces than St. Louis had when they won the cup. Binnington was great but Igor is much better than him, he is the best goalie in the league! We have a Fox who I would argue is just as good (better even) than prime Piertrangelo. Zib is comparable to prime ROR. Panarin is better than Tarasenko.

If some of the kids take that next step we have all the pieces we need. After that is comes down to coaching, growing together as a team + that bit of luck you need sometimes.

 

[Roo Returns]

Very curious to see if Panarin is over the injury the poster was talking about whether from the Wilson altercation or something else along with how his line is. I can totally see Carpenter centering him by mid season because him and Trochek have no chemistry and him vs. Chytil is futile. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm also curious if Trochek can go back to his higher than average production as was the case when he played for Gallant in Florida. Maybe him and a Kravstov or Kakko develop some chemistry.

@RangersFan1994 Robertson is an interesting case. He might fall into the Ryan Graves territory of being just solid with no dash or dazzle, or the plan might be to bring him along slowly in the background and hope he can replace Lindgren for cap reasons down the line. Curious to see his progression and if he's more dynamic and noticeable even without the point this season.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Very curious to see if Panarin is over the injury the poster was talking about whether from the Wilson altercation or something else along with how his line is. I can totally see Carpenter centering him by mid season because him and Trochek have no chemistry and him vs. Chytil is futile. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm also curious if Trochek can go back to his higher than average production as was the case when he played for Gallant in Florida. Maybe him and a Kravstov or Kakko develop some chemistry.

@RangersFan1994 Robertson is an interesting case. He might fall into the Ryan Graves territory of being just solid with no dash or dazzle, or the plan might be to bring him along slowly in the background and hope he can replace Lindgren for cap reasons down the line. Curious to see his progression and if he's more dynamic and noticeable even without the point this season.

This is an eerie, dark take. I'm not sure you realize how little offensive ability Carpenter has. If he's centering Panarin at any point during the season, Mas' wish will come true & we're a lottery team.

 

[Tob]

You can add the 3 other moronic words/phrases he uses as well.

but how will we know if the royal road revolution is here?

 

[haohmaru]

There is a zero percent chance that Blais and a second was the best offer for Buchnevich.

At the time there was a 100% chance that it was. Every team in the league knew the Rangers weren't in the financial position to sign him and they had that leverage. Just like now that Lundqvist has gone the Andersson route, the Rangers are in a shit position yet again by drafting BPA's instead of addressing needs (and I'm with you on this as your position is similar).

 

[Kords]

I see this board is already in mid season form, lmao.