Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

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Are we removing from the equation the fact that the few weeks we'd be adding this player for would be the playoffs with the hopes of winning the Stanley Cup, which is the whole point of all of this? Seems important to mention.

I'm not saying I would even want to trade one of our firsts for Kane (I wouldn't and definitely not the Dallas one) but if trading for Kane is in the cards you can't dismiss it without acknowledging how adding a player that good for a playoff run really strengthens the forward group to go after a cup. A Kane type player in our forward group last year could've been the difference between us puttering out where we did and us winning the cup, we were that close already.

So much has to happen between now and the TDL it's not even really worth discussing that much at this point because so much can and will change.

I get that but:

A.) There's nothing guaranteed about adding a 34 year old Patrick Kane to this roster and the Cup is ours.
B.) This is strong draft and, especially if the ultimate goal (Cup) isn't reached, you're likely giving up on a 1st round draft pick that will likely contribute to the Rangers roster for YEARS and that's IF that's all it takes to acquire him (it won't be).
C.) The Cap gyrations required to get this done are likely to be onerous.
D.) Chicago has made the playoffs once in the last 5 years. Not saying this is Kane's fault but it sure has to make you think a bit about it.

Well everything I've seen about this regime suggests that they would prefer the elite scorer for the few weeks that the Stanley Cup will be decided. So I would prepare yourself.

Who was the "elite scorer" last year under Drury? Copp? His TDL moves last year were phenomenal. Until I see differently I don't see him trading the house for a short term rental of Kane.
 
Well everything I've seen about this regime suggests that they would prefer the elite scorer for the few weeks that the Stanley Cup will be decided. So I would prepare yourself.

I'm very well prepared that the org may do something stupid.

Are we removing from the equation the fact that the few weeks we'd be adding this player for would be the playoffs with the hopes of winning the Stanley Cup, which is the whole point of all of this? Seems important to mention.

I'm not saying I would even want to trade one of our firsts for Kane (I wouldn't and definitely not the Dallas one) but if trading for Kane is in the cards you can't dismiss it without acknowledging how adding a player that good for a playoff run really strengthens the forward group to go after a cup. A Kane type player in our forward group last year could've been the difference between us puttering out where we did and us winning the cup, we were that close already.

So much has to happen between now and the TDL it's not even really worth discussing that much at this point because so much can and will change.

We were far too poor at 5v5 for Kane to have likely made a difference last year vs. either Tampa or Colorado.

We will see this year, but I still don't think it will be worth trading a first in this studly draft.
 
But from what I understand in this draft is while you have the potential to get impact players late into first round, there is still a significant dropoff between how good the top talent is to where the late 1st rounders are. No team that wasted a season toiling below 500 is passing that up. If the late round is that good that you don't want to move it for a rental, and the top 10-12 is that much better, then that tells you how good they are and how highly that pick will be valued.

This isn't NHL 22 where 2 1sts automatically get you the 5th overall choice on Easy trade difficulty. Drury and Rangers aren't the only ones valuing 1st round picks. It'a all moot point anyways, Drurys focus I can say with 99% certainty is moving the 2nd 1st for a rental as opposed to moving into the top 10 of a draft during a contention window. How often do we see contending teams save draft picks to get a top 10 pick as opposed to moving it for a rental and a better shot at winning?

You say that but the Stars just gave us a first that could be as low as 11 for Nils Lundkvist (admittedly a good player).

Teams are sometimes just stupid. Our own GM proved that with the Buchnevich trade. Blues fans are laughing thinking "Gosh, even in NHL 22 we couldn't trade Blais and a second for Buch."

You never know what GM will feel pressure to make a move and bite.

If Drury moves the later pick that also essentially contradicts the position that no team will move a pick this year cause our own GM will have just done it.

Long story short, it may not be likely but it is absolutely worth discussing and keeping the possibility open of packaging those firsts to move up.
 
Using 1 first not 2. it was 1 first plus a lower pick, which, by the way, we still have our 3rd. If you use two first to move up 2 spots, that is horrible asset management, especially if the draft is as deep as claimed to be. Anderson may have been 2 firsts but lets forget about that pick entirely.

And while the draft is deep, there is still a significant falloff between talent in top 10 and bottom 10 of 1st round. Rangers are aware of that, as are other teams. If the bottom 10 is as good as it is that we don't want to move the 28-32 selection, then that tells you how good the top 10-12 would be if theres a gap between the two. Teams will not give that away for pennies on the dollar, which is what we would be offering.

Laf, Kakko, Miller, Schneider, Krav and Anderson, Othmann makes for 6 first round picks in 4 years since 2018 rebuild started. 4/6 of those look great, thr 2/6 being Anderson and Krav. Maybe we can salvage Krav into a dealdine acquisition that helps us bring the elusive Cup back home to NY this year. But we had our first rounders to get the talent. We have our core.

We don't need to stockpile picks every year. Sometimes its okay to move the first, don't forget, we didn't throw away our first last year, it was conditioned that if Copp worked out the way it was planned when he was acquired, they'd get our 1st. And it did work out, we made a deep run, game the defending Cup champs almost all they could handle, and this core team had their first deep playoff run for experience, and will be better for it.

Gotta give to get. Wanna get the Cup, sometimes you gotta give to make the right additions to bring it home.

It is inaccurate to portray the team as being too loaded to even bother keeping first round picks to make selections. In reality we probably need a defenseman in the system right about now, the Nils issue was that he was essentially the same age as like 4 other defenders also in the pipeline AND blocked by a 24 year old and a 28 year old.

You add an 18 year old to the mix next season who won't be ready for ANOTHER 3-4 years, now Trouba is 31-32 and can be moved.

Same with center. Forward in general, really. Yeah, right now we have "so many wingers" that Lafreniere can't even get into the top 6, but in 3-4 seasons Mika will be getting old, Trochek will be getting old, Kreider and Panarin will be getting old, you can move on from those guys.

I think it's absolutely critical for us to land two stud centers with these picks. We do need to stockpile, right now in fact.

I was never about committing to this window, but now that we have by locking in long term deals, we cannot also foolishly squander the assets for replenishing the forward depth for when Mika and Trochek and Panarin decline. You get those replacements into the system starting NOW.

Nils being traded gave you a golden opportunity to hit the accelerator, so to speak, on insulating your second window without giving away anything tangible from this window (ie, trading away Kreider or Strome like I had been barking about for years).
 
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Like I've mentioned numerous times, we check the typical contender boxes, Top C, C depth, Top winger (maybe 2 if Kreider can keep up the 4-50 goal pace), top defenseman, top goalie. We have a surplus of 1st this year (1 in standard, which makes 2 a surplus), and we have Kravtsov.

You should probably read the Athletic article on what the average Cup winner has and how, as of last year, we were woefully short and had tons of development yet to do.
 
Thats because we went 4 years without one. No ones proposing that. We'd still have one this year, unless Dallas missed the Playoff and won the lottery.

We went four years without one and the team absolutely cratered. Is that what we are going for, when Kreider, Panarin, and Mika start declining?

We went last year without one. This year we've been gifted an extra in a draft projected to be the deepest in like a decade.

We will still be contending next year. Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Fox, Miller, Schneider, yes even Shesterkin will be another year older and still climbing towards their peaks. Othmann will arrive. Who is to say our chances won't be even better next year? Are we going to hear in 2024 about "Yes we traded away firsts in 2022 AND 2023, but THIS is the REAL year that we can't let go to waste!"

It's always the same story with the win-now crowd. Every year, on a team full of kids under 25, most under 23, is THE YEAR you have to go all-in. Like, I'm sorry, but I don't really give a shit if we don't win a Cup before Kreider falls off a cliff. He had his chance.

How about we use the picks in the sickest draft we've seen in a while and then can have a conversation about maybe using next year's first on a rental when we should be even better?
 
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I don't know what fantasyland some are in where they think the Rangers wait an extra year to make sure Trouba is ready for the C then trade him the next offseason.

Well that would be the fantasy land where you move him and then can afford to resign literally all your kids to using his $8m and then Braden Schneider ends up nearly just as good as him, which on analytics, is not an impossible task within like another year, so you barely even notice his departure in the W-L column.

But yeah the Rangers don't like the obvious solutions, they want to keep operating like it's 1997.
 
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We went last year without one. This year we've been gifted an extra in a draft projected to be the deepest in like a decade.

Maybe... like all your other commentary, this is not a guarantee.

You seem really interested in trading known quantities for magic beans.

There are plenty of teams that spend a decade in a rebuild, and then subsequently spend another decade in a re-rebuild.
 
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Thats because we went 4 years without one. No ones proposing that. We'd still have one this year, unless Dallas missed the Playoff and won the lottery.
I'm proposing we move our lesser pick and retain the one that projects to be better.
No. Keep both in this draft. DAL or not

Stop dealing 1st over and over.

You keep the two this draft and then deal our 1st in '24? Ok... maybe. Depends on the return.

Look at Othmann... decent pick in a so so spot in the draft, now turning into gold.

Make the picks.
 
If Laf and Kakko do well as 1 and 2 RW there's no reason to even think of bringing in Kane. Kane could also regress this season so it's hard to be talking about making a Kane trade at the deadline only one game into the season. This team will most likely need a really good 7d come deadline time.

Im sure Kane would add a spark up front and also deepen the lines, but I agree. We saw how Laf and Kakko played in the postseason last year. It would be silly to think they wont be the same or better players this year if they get in, with 20+ playoff games under their belt.

Also, who's coming off PP1 for Kane? My guess would be Trocheck. So you lose a little on the faceoff dot, no biggie at all, but is there enough of the puck to go around? Would Kane mess with the chemistry of a PP that is already tops in the league? I'm not gonna go and say he would. That would be a lethal PP, but you never know.

Kane remains one of the league’s best players, a purely one-dimensional offensive force who is about as good as it gets with the puck on his stick. Few generate more offense off the rush and create high-danger chances – whether that’s via shot or pass. Kane was top five in the league in high danger shot contributions last year.

It’s the other side of the puck that’s always in question, but Kane creates more than enough offense to make up for it – something that expected goals doesn’t capture well. Relative to teammates, Kane’s ability to drive expected goals has been negative for eight straight seasons, but his ability to drive actual goals has almost always been positive. In that span, his impact on expected goals is minus-0.15 per 60… but by actual goals he’s plus-0.34.

One concern with Kane: his five-on-five points-per-60 has dropped in four consecutive seasons. His 2.22 rate from last year is still strong and close to his career average, but a fair bit lower than his 2.8 from 2018-19. The culprit: a drop in his own ability to put the puck in the net.

I know Kane has his Cups, and since he's done it already (3x) - that is always very valuable to me. But at this point in his career is his 5 on 5/Defense isnt perfect. Could you live with it for the boost offensively, the leadership, experience and Cups he has? Its very inticing.

But the price... The price will be steep. And not only will it likely cost one or two first rounders plus prospects/players (possibly a guy like Chytil or Kravstov if hes playing well) which is steep in and of itself, it also comes at the price of dropping both Kakko and Laf in the lineup.

Things can change, but I'm going on the premise that Kakko and/or Laf become everyday top 6 players for the entire season. To take one or both of them from that position and shoehorn Kane in at a steep price for just a chance at a Cup makes you pause a little. A least it does for me.
 
I don't think Drury is in a rush to trade 1st round picks. Hell, the only one he dealt had crazy conditions on it that had the team advancing, lets face it, further than any of us thought. On top of that, Copp had to play 50% of the games. Drury seems to know that having high picks to fill in spots with ELCs is important. I don't think this team is in a rush to make the "big" splash. They are looking for the "right" splash.

You can put me down as a no for Kane. But a Barabanov, yeah I like that. And I think that can get done for Krav, if he doesn't prove to be a producer for us, and Blais to make the money work. Might not even take a draft pick, or at least a 1st, to get that done. Grier knows Drury.

And we are only 1 game in. We might be out of the playoffs by January for all we know.
 
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Everyone is always looking at the cap or the Laf/Kakko aspects of it and we're all forgetting that Kane just f***ing sucks at this point.

He gets secondary assists on the powerplay. We have that in spades.

In terms of 200-foot engagement and driving play, he makes Panarin look like Jere Lehtinen.
 
If we waive Blais today, that opens up about $6.75-7mm in space at the deadline. Why not do it? Guy has proven to be made of glass and lets be real, how much more of an upgrade is he over dryden hunt? The way I see it, do we want/need blais playing like 40 games if it means no patty kane?
 
If we waive Blais today, that opens up about $6.75-7mm in space at the deadline. Why not do it? Guy has proven to be made of glass and lets be real, how much more of an upgrade is he over dryden hunt? The way I see it, do we want/need blais playing like 40 games if it means no patty kane?
In the name of asset management, horrible idea, I'm sure someone still sees what Drury saw in Blais when he basically gave Buch to the Blues at a discount for including him in the trade. We could definitely still get something for him.
In terms of cap management, excellent idea, the team should hire you as a capologist. Also, I'm sure this cap space is far more valuable than anything we'd get for Blais at this point. Although I'm sure 20 people on this board would sentence you to death for creating cap space to buy at the deadline in the cost of winning. Thats not how the NHL works. You draft and develop only, no trades as every Deadline trade is an extra life sentence in hockey hell.
 
He was 13th in the league in even-strength points last year.
Ok?
I don't think Drury is in a rush to trade 1st round picks. Hell, the only one he dealt had crazy conditions on it that had the team advancing, lets face it, further than any of us thought. On top of that, Copp had to play 50% of the games. Drury seems to know that having high picks to fill in spots with ELCs is important. I don't think this team is in a rush to make the "big" splash. They are looking for the "right" splash.

You can put me down as a no for Kane. But a Barabanov, yeah I like that. And I think that can get done for Krav, if he doesn't prove to be a producer for us, and Blais to make the money work. Might not even take a draft pick, or at least a 1st, to get that done. Grier knows Drury.

And we are only 1 game in. We might be out of the playoffs by January for all we know.
Assuming Kratsov flames out, moving him for someone like barbanov, is still insanely bad. Move him for kane, sure. Barbanov no. We all know that the second he's off the rangers he's gonna explode offensively.
 
Everyone is always looking at the cap or the Laf/Kakko aspects of it and we're all forgetting that Kane just f***ing sucks at this point.

He gets secondary assists on the powerplay. We have that in spades.

In terms of 200-foot engagement and driving play, he makes Panarin look like Jere Lehtinen.

Yup.

OTOH you know who would be an excellent rental pickup if he doesn't get extended by his team?

Timo Meier
 
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Ok?

Assuming Kratsov flames out, moving him for someone like barbanov, is still insanely bad. Move him for kane, sure. Barbanov no. We all know that the second he's off the rangers he's gonna explode offensively.
Theres no Kravtsov explosion coming folks. Kravtsov improving, maybe, but hes not going to explode into the 80 point potential he had as a ceiling when we drafted him. He may find footing and stabilize as a 2nd line guy, but we already have 6 of those in Panarin, Kreider, Zib, kakko, Laf and Trocheck.

My bet is he is an offensive 3rd liner, or flames out entirely and goes back to Russia
 
Theres no Kravtsov explosion coming folks. Kravtsov improving, maybe, but hes not going to explode into the 80 point potential he had as a ceiling when we drafted him. He may find footing and stabilize as a 2nd line guy, but we already have 6 of those in Panarin, Kreider, Zib, kakko, Laf and Trocheck.

My bet is he is an offensive 3rd liner, or flames out entirely and goes back to Russia
My feeling on Kravtsov is if he ever gets to American Buch level we should be ecstatic. But that's not happening for a couple years, if it ever does.

Personally, I don't see it happening here as I believe he's become a trade chip
 
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No reason to move Kravtsov. He's a rookie that needs to adapt to the NHL, simple as that. Whether he sticks on that 2nd line or not im not too concerned. We've got Kreider, Panarin, Kakko and Laf. Chytil and Kravtsov would make a dangerous 3rd line. Plenty of skill, throw a good veteran like Goodrow with them
 
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Everyone is always looking at the cap or the Laf/Kakko aspects of it and we're all forgetting that Kane just f***ing sucks at this point.

He gets secondary assists on the powerplay. We have that in spades.

In terms of 200-foot engagement and driving play, he makes Panarin look like Jere Lehtinen.

Yessssss. POTD.

Let somebody else lose key assets for renting this guy.
 
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No reason to move Kravtsov. He's a rookie that needs to adapt to the NHL, simple as that. Whether he sticks on that 2nd line or not im not too concerned. We've got Kreider, Panarin, Kakko and Laf. Chytil and Kravtsov would make a dangerous 3rd line. Plenty of skill, throw a good veteran like Goodrow with them
Surprised how quick some fans are to trade Kravtsov and insert Othmann in that spot. If they expect Othmann to be a productive NHLer within the next 2-3 seasons, I have a Chytil/Kakko/Lafreniere-sized bridge to sell them. Has anyone been paying attention to the Rangers track record with forward prospects? They take years and years in the bottom six. I would wager Kravtsov is actually closer to being a productive NHLer than Othmann, ceiling aside.
 
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